| Author | Message | ||
     Djkaplan |
"you're wrong about the evo. porsche had much to do with it, in fact, back in the '90s at a tour of the york plant, a friend noticed a STACK of crated mills marked 'stuttgart'. the tour guy wasn't too happy about the 'discovery'and my friend (a BMWNA exec.) asked around and found that, allegedly, porsche was doing much design with the evos." Timing is way off on this. The Evo engine was released in 1984. Perhaps the crates were for the V-Rod program. I've never read anywhere that Porsche had any input in the Evo engine. | ||
| Tramp |
Timing would be way off if these were merely prototype mills. I never said that, however. Trust me, I'm familiar with the evo timeline. the point is that there actually seemed to be production coming out of stuttgart, and, further, prior to the unveiling of the evo, there was already hubbub of porsche contribution. I've seen, for myself, DIN stampings in some post-sandcast BT evos. | ||
| Xlcr |
No way to prove it, but as the Stuka didn't need a longer propeller, and clearly it was done for different reasons, the likelihood that it was is vanishingly slim. How about the Polish PZL fighter of the early '30s? It was a gullwing too, though it was a high-wing 'parasol' design. If we follow your reasoning, were both planes 'influenced' by the Polish design? I guess someone else already exploded your Evo theory, so I won't bother. As for the Tatra, I've seen pictures of the flat-four Tatra's design. The Volkswagen was an obvious copy. When the Tatra factory was overrun by the Germans production plans for the little Tatra were stopped for obvious reasons. In turn, the Porsche was an evolution of the Volkswagen, the 911 was obviously an evolution of the 356 with two extra cylinders, and although it's slightly more of a reach, it's pretty clear that Tucker and GM had been exposed to the Tatra/Porsche/VW designs. There are far too many similarities to suppose otherwise. | ||
| Xlcr |
Where is the Mahle factory located? I know that the Evo WAS developed with some help from them. They came up with an 'egg-shaped' piston design that allowed closer tolerances, and they still make pistons for all Harley models. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Well Tramp... ...nothing you've said proves Porsche had anything to do with Evo engine development. I don't care if you think so, though, perhaps they did - I don't know. I can't find any kind of documentation anywhere that says they did, whereas Porsche's involvement in the Nova and V-Rod is widely known. If you want to prove it..., then prove it. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"No way to prove it, but as the Stuka didn't need a longer propeller, and clearly it was done for different reasons, the likelihood that it was is vanishingly slim." It was so they could provide more clearance to load bombs underneath the plane. | ||
| Tramp |
so, first you make an inane statement regarding the evo/porsche thing (ummmm...I DID state that i've seen EVO cases with DIN stampings, right?) then you go on to discuss the PZL, which had predecessors to it's own actual gull-wing design (you keep mistakingly calling the stuka and corsair 'gullwing' while in actuality, they're reverse gullwing. but there is ambient verbiage consistent with your technical snafu, so it is what it is. neither aircraft was influenced by the PZL, in fact, their wing ture is the diametric opposite. The stuka came before the corsair, and shares the wing design. hmmmm.... of course, different countries never boost enemy tech, right?The VW was not "an obvious copy" actually, the tatra took it's boxer config from the BMW and Zundapp engines and early isettas. so did VW. again, i never made any statement about VW's origins, or Porsche's. but now that you bring it up, you're wrong. The german military machine demanded boxer reliability in their automobiles. bear in mind that that in WWI, prussia and austria-hungary were essentially synonymous with germany. the tatra and skoda were both part of the german war machine. skoda, a much bigger manufacturer of automobiles form the same region as the tatra (& now owned by VW) built the big guns for kaiser. were you to consider the weimar military structure, you'd realize that the same power was utilizing the same german designers to oversee the development of the machinery, using cheaper slavic labour in cheaper slavic lands, where better metals often were to be found. after the armistice, the slavic countries then inherited their own companies. but of course, you ralized this, being you "know more than anyoen here" (your words) now, why would you say that one model within a brand (Porsche 911) was "infuenced" by another model in the same brand (356)? why would you state that it's primary difference is two extra cylinders? that's wrong. the 912, the same vehicle as the 911, save for the engine, an upright doghouse 4 cyl., is still a 911 evolution. weird. why haven't youanswered any of my questions about your own experiences with warbirds, the mideast, the tatry, etc.? what-your own experiences aren't right there on google? you know, I really tried to see your side when you were having your cyberwar with choptop. but you're one of these guys who willavoid a direct question, cut and paste googled data and make sweepoing statements belittling everyone else here, by saying you "know more than anyone here" on a subject. again,on the porsche thing, the tatra thing,a nd on the bizarre presupposition that I'd ever brought up any boosting of tech between either ferry porsche's immortal design masterpiece or the kubelkwagen? i merely referred to teh corvair as the "american porsche" a common and affectionate monniker of the period, and you concoct odd little arguments against things which weren't stated. the corvair was the "american porsche" and it did borrow the flat-6 rear engine design form Porsche. relax. * * * and maybe naswer my questions concerning your time in the mideast, and in central europe, your stick time in stick aircarft, your yoke time in yoke aircraft, etc. there are so many questions i posed, and you chose to answer none. zero zilch. you claimed that history began with sumeria (which you spelled as sumaria) , then when I pointed out the dictionary definition of "history" (and it didn't quite agree with yours) you thyen said "oh, that's the 'modern definition', but the word literally means written word" so, I cited the etymology or "history"which, again, proved you wrong. do you suually make stuff up,then just keep backtracking, and never admit fault? hey- I'm occasionally wrong. and I have no problem admitting it. 'course, I don't make stuff up, or claim to "know more than anyone here' on badweb or anywhere else. instead of taking the high road after I proved you invented a new definition for the word"history" itself, by maybe checking your facts better or capitualting to the FACT that you do NOT "know more than anyone here", you now make a fulltime job of trying to debunk my posts. that's obsessive, xlcr. you wanna keep jabbering in my wake about how I'm wrong about everything? suit yourself, but pack a lunch  (I reread this and I hope it's not really indicative of bad blood. I've never actually met XLCR and I do share his taste in motorcycles. you know...for the record.hence, I've removed some of the meaner-sounding verbiage in hopes that, much like myn plea on the mideast thread, which contains questions xlcr stillrefuses to answer, we can just drop it and get along.but iof not, he*l, I'll play) (Message edited by tramp on December 16, 2005) | ||
| Tramp |
DJKaplan said: "Well Tramp... ...nothing you've said proves Porsche had anything to do with Evo engine development. I don't care if you think so,... If you want to prove it..., then prove it." and, likewise, disprove it. I know of nO us manufacturer that uses DIN stampings in their crankcases, and yet I've seen it, palin as day. I merely cited what I've seen in sevral BT evo case, and related what a Friend at BMWNA told me of a trip to York, and the scuttlebutt (and termed thusly) surrounding stuttgart's allegedinvolvemnt in the EVO design. | ||
| Vegasbueller |
Bomber: actually there are some T-6's still being flown as training aircraft. I helped to reassemble two that were bought from the South African govt, where they had been flown quite often. Quite an amazing machine. The T-28 was a real hoss as well. Funny, the one that I had the pleasure of working on, we always called the "Flying Harley", because of the way it rattled the windows when it taxied by the hangar. | ||
| Tramp |
yep- sound like a group of 5 or 6 harleys | ||
| Tramp |
1990 - 2002 From a Components to a Systems Supplier 1991 Merger of the Iron and Steel activities of MAHLE GmbH with J.Wizemann GmbH & Co. to form MAHLE-J.Wizemann GmbH & Co. KG 1992 Series production of pistons with GRAFAL® skirt coating 1993 Acquisition of remaining shares in Knecht Filterwerke GmbH Oil filter module with filter inserts and plastic cover 1994 Establishment of MAHLE Pistones S. de R.L. de C.V., Mexico Merger of MAHLE-Wizemann Group with Pleuco GmbH to form MWP MAHLE-J.Wizemann-Pleuco GmbH (now MAHLE Ventiltrieb GmbH, Germany) Introduction of MICRO-STAR® passenger compartment air filters 1995 MAHLE 142 and MAHLE 145 piston alloys enter series production Funnel type cooling channel pistons enter series production 1996 Start of robot-aided medium-pressure die casting for the production of ceramic-fiberreinforced pistons First Prize of the Confederation of German Industry for MAHLE's ecological oil filter concept Majority share in Metal Leve S.A. (today MAHLE Metal Leve S.A.), Brazil Joint venture MWP Migma Ltd. (today MAHLE MIGMA Ltd.), India 1997 Takeover of the piston ring activities of Cofap S.A. (today MAHLE Cofap Anéis S.A.), with production facilities in Brazil and Portugal Joint venture Kirloskar Knecht Filters Private Ltd. (now MAHLE Filter Systems (India) Pvt. Ltd.) Joint venture Knecht Duroplast Sistemas de Filtración S.A. de C.V. (now MAHLE de Mexico Sistemas de Filtración S.A. de C.V.), Mexico Series production of air intake modules Passenger car pistons with local iron coating in MAHLE Ferrostan II 1998 Establishment of MAHLE Sp. z o.o., Poland MAHLE 174 alloy for high-load aluminum diesel engines enters series production 1999 All majority-owned companies of the MAHLE Group are renamed, setting the MAHLE name first and eliminating most of the former corporate names in order to introduce a global MAHLE Corporate Identity Establishment of MAHLE Filtersysteme GmbH (previously Knecht Filterwerke GmbH) and MAHLE Ventiltrieb GmbH (previously MAHLE-J.Wizemann-Pleuco GmbH) Acquisition of a majority share in CIVA Compagnia Valvole S.r.l. (today MAHLE Valvole S.r.l.), Italy Acquisition of a majority share in WSM, now MAHLE Krotoszyn S.A., Poland Joint venture Donghyun MAHLE Filter Systems Co., Ltd. , South Korea Joint venture MAHLE-Izumi (Liaoning) Piston Co., Ltd., China Establishment of MAHLE (Nanjing) Piston Co., Ltd., China Passenger car pistons with FERROPRINT® skirt coating enter series production 2000 Takeover of Parr Manufacturing (now MAHLE-Parr Filter Systems Inc.), USA Foundation of MAHLE Motorteile GmbH, Germany MONOTHERM® pistons enter series production Pistons with cooled ring carrier enter series production 2001 FERROCOMP® large-bore pistons enter series production Intake module for gasoline engine with variable length control Acquisition of the Tennex Group (now MAHLE Tennex Corp.) with filter plants in Japan, on the Philippines, in the USA and Great Britain Acquisition of a share in Brockhaus Soehne GmbH, Germany, with subsidiaries in Spain and Canada 2002 First plastic oil filter for passenger car diesel engines Presentation and preparation for series production of MAHLE lightweight engine valves Establishment of MAHLE-ACL Piston Products Pty Ltd., Australia, MAHLE being the majority shareholder Forming of MAHLE Brockhaus Inc., Canada Merger of the three Filter Systems Companies in the USA and Mexico (yeeeesh) | ||
| Tramp |
who designed and manufactured the HD injection sytem? I have no clue on this one. | ||
| Tramp |
interestingly, when I entered "harley davidson" into Mahle's search engine, it came up with "0" when I entered Porsche, same. meanhwile, Mahle pistons are all the rage in Porsche and VW sport applications..... these relationships are rarely, if ever, bandied about. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"And, much like the evo and the Corsair aeroplane, the corvair borrowed much of it's tech from the Krauts." "I merely cited what I've seen in sevral BT evo case, and related what a Friend at BMWNA told me of a trip to York, and the scuttlebutt (and termed thusly) surrounding stuttgart's allegedinvolvemnt in the EVO design." Well, then. You should have used the words "scuttlebutt" and "alleged" in your original statement. I can see there is bad blood here between you and XLCR; you can't offer proof to back up your original statement; and you apparently will win any pissing contest you get into, sooooooo... ...have a nice day. | ||
| Tramp |
actually, Kaplan, I DID! he*l, you even quoted, about 12 posts back, my statement at the top of this thread, where I say "alleged" ummm, so, DJKaplan, i just offered proof that you're dead wrong.  back at you with the nice day, though | ||
| Tramp |
I've also maintained that the corvair was influenced by the krauts. I could swear xlcr agreed on that, as well. why bring that up? where's the anger and the misinformation coming form, kaplan? hell, I just showed you that I DID use the word alleged in my original statement. you should try to be more careful in your research methods before coming at me like that. now you've proven yourself to either have poor reading comprehension, or to just be a fabricator (diplomatic verbiage here). why the hate? | ||
| Xlcr |
Gee, Tramp, we make a nice pair! I know it all, and you've been everywhere and done everything! How very nice for you! But it still doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. Your version of German history as stated above is laughable. Prussia created Germany by defeating Austria-Hungary and then France in war. Though they were ruled by a German minority, Austria-Hungary was a totally separate country until Hitler 'united' them in 1939. Tatra was in Austria-Hungary until the end of WWI, and then in a separate country until the Germans invaded at the beginning of WWII, and only then did they become part of the German war machine. Before that they were bitter enemies. Also, in WWI no one in Germany was making boxer engines. BMW made its first one in 1922, and Zundapp was even later. I can't believe that the 'German war machine' had the slightest interest in specific engine designs. They were always chronically short of any kind of motorized transport, and they would and did use anything they could get their hands on, including captured machinery, no matter how poorly designed. Even then right to the end of WWII most of the German army transport was horse-drawn, believe it or not. The boxer engine isn't really the point anyway. The idea was to achieve better aerodynamics and more efficient passenger packaging by putting the engine in the rear. Air-cooling was to eliminate the problem of placing the radiator, and the swing axles were because the middle European roads tended to have high crowns instead of deep barrow pits because it was easier and cheaper, and swing axles kept more of the tire on the road. THESE are the ideas Ledwinka created and Porsche stole. The fact a German court found him guilty after the war should be convincing. Historians everywhere agree that 'history' means recorded history. Before that is the realm of the anthropologist. All you are proving is that you are NOT a historian. Ask one sometime. As far as Evo engines made in Germany. I've seen hundreds of Evo cases and never seen or heard of such a thing until now, now have I met anyone else that has. I'm not about to believe that one without hard proof. The rest of your post is little more than a temper tantrum. I can't imagine what it was like before you cleaned it up. My advice? Get over it. | ||
| Xlcr |
Also, Harley states in their own literature that all pistons are made by Mahle. Surely if you 'know' about the cases you'd know that. If such cases do exist, they probably made them. Unfortunately, you can't find out everything by Googling, or by looking in the dictionary. Nor have I ever 'cut and pasted' anything. I don't need to. I have a huge reference library, and I rarely forget what I read. PS, those big guns you were talking about were built by Krupp, NOT Skoda. Give it up, you're just getting in deeper. (Message edited by xlcr on December 16, 2005) | ||
| Tramp |
xlcr- you did it again. i never said BMw or zundapp manufactured boxers in WWI. Easy to sound correct if you assign untrue statements to follks who never made them. weird. incidentally,I've never been to japan or chine, nor antarctica, nor most south and central american countries. I've also never been to cuba, which sucks (I really want to visit there, soon) really laughable part: I've never (get this, and I'm from NY) been to Boston. weird, right? oh, yeah- never been to africa, either. or madagascar. or tasmania. or spain (that's weird, right? sucks. i wanna go there) or texas, or arkansas, or alabama, or wisconsin, or north dakota, or minnesota or michigan. or korea. or mississippi or missouri. or... | ||
| Tramp |
"I can't believe that the 'German war machine' had the slightest interest in specific engine designs. They were always chronically short of any kind of motorized transport, and they would and did use anything they could get their hands on, including captured machinery, no matter how poorly designed. Even then right to the end of WWII most of the German army transport was horse-drawn, believe it or not. " * * absolutely false, and I know many men who served in the german army in WWII. actaully, the german army in WWII had a nice fat complement of trucks and ships. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Tramp, Are you thinking of the Dave Loggins song? ARTIST: Dave Loggins TITLE: Please Come to Boston Lyrics and Chords Please come to Boston for the springtime I'm stayin' here with some friends and they've got lots of room You can sell your paintings on the sidewalk By a café where I hope to be workin' soon Please come to Boston She said no, would you come home to me / D - - G / / A - D - / Bm A G - / D - / A - D - / {Refrain} And she said, hey ramblin' boy, why don't you settle down Boston ain't your kind of town There ain't no gold and there ain't nobody like me I'm the number one fan of the man from Tennessee / D AD / / D - G - / Em A D - / Please come to Denver with the snowfall We'll move up into the mountains so far that we can't be found And throw "I love you" echoes down the canyon And then lie awake at night till they come back around Please come to Denver She said no, boy, would you come home to me {Refrain, with Denver} {Bridge} Now this drifter's world goes 'round and 'round And I doubt that it's ever gonna stop But of all the dreams I've lost or found And all that I ain't got I still need to cling to Somebody I can sing to / Bm A / G D / Bm A / G - / Em - / A - / Please come to LA to live forever California life alone is just too hard to build I live in a house that looks out over the ocean And there's some stars that fell from the sky Livin' up on the hill Please come to LA She just said no, boy, won't you come home to me {Refrain with LA can't be...} I'm the number one fan of the man from Tennessee / Em A D - / | ||
| Tramp |
xlcr said: "Historians everywhere agree that 'history' means recorded history. Before that is the realm of the anthropologist. All you are proving is that you are NOT a historian. Ask one sometime." 8 * * what the... xlcr- I know historians. i also posted botth the dictionary definition of "history" (no mention of "written") and the etymological origin of the word (also no such mention) why can't you just admit you're wrong? I own innumerable historical texts which begin long before "written" history. You're wrong, as usual, and I posted more than enough proof. Now it's "Historians everywhere agree" what are you, a toothpaste commercial? tomorrow, hsould I cite many historical texts which detail pre-written word history, will your latest caveat be: "Nine out of ten historians agree"? xlcr- you're a hack, and you're dead wrong. again. sometimes a man needs to learn that when he's in a deeeeeep hole, the first thing he should do is drop the shovel. | ||
| Tramp |
"Tramp, Are you thinking of the Dave Loggins song?" I love that song. was Dave Loggins kenny's brother? | ||
| Tramp |
dbird- actually, I may have been thinking of Three Dog Night's "never been to Spain" (written, incidentally, By Hoyt Axton, as was 'joy to the world'{Jeremiah was a bullfrog}) rest his soul, and god bless George Jones | ||
| Tramp |
"Also, Harley states in their own literature that all pistons are made by Mahle. Surely if you 'know' about the cases you'd know that. If such cases do exist, they probably made them. Unfortunately, you can't find out everything by Googling, or by looking in the dictionary. Nor have I ever 'cut and pasted' anything. I don't need to. I have a huge reference library, and I rarely forget what I read. PS, those big guns you were talking about were built by Krupp, NOT Skoda. Give it up, you're just getting in deeper. " ??? Dead wrong, Skoda manufactured WWI gremany's many big guns. Not only is this fact (of which the company's very proud) cited ad nauseum at their bohemian factory (yepo- i've been there, a LOT, as I'm a dual-resident and I've friends who are employed by skoda) but the Big Skoda guns are cited by hemingway, as well. * * * you SURE you remmeber all you read? because you must have read this, is if you know anything whatsoever about WWI artie OR read even rudimentary Hemingway in American Lit. further, you seem to "remember" me saying that BMW Manufactured Boxers in WWI, which I simply never stated. dude- you have absolutely no credibility with me, whatsoever. you still sure you "Know more than anyone here"? about anything? | ||
| Dbird29 |
"Greenback Dollar" sung by Hoyt is the best! Flashes Of Fire: Hoyt's Very Best 1962-1990 * Audio CD (April 20, 2004) * Label: Raven [Australia] * ASIN: B0001XAP4W * Average Customer Review: 5.0 out of 5 stars Based on 1 review. Write a review. * Amazon.com Sales Rank: Today: #11,062 in Music Yesterday: #10,617 in Music Track Listings 1. Greenback Dollar [Live] 2. Smoky 3. It's All Right Now 4. Snow Blind Friend 5. Pusher 6. Never Been to Spain 7. Joy to the World 8. Officer Ray 9. Heaven 10. Sweet Misery 11. Less Than the Song 12. When the Morning Comes 13. Boney Fingers 14. No No Song 15. Lion in the Winter 16. In a Young Girl's Mind 17. Evangelina 18. Flash of Fire 19. Light This Candle 20. Free Sailin' | ||
| Dbird29 |
Office Ray May your testicles fail. May your wife run away with a hippie. | ||
| Tramp |
seems you thrive on claiming that others posted things which, in fact, they didn't. You still haven't answered my questions. here's a new one. PLEASE cite one qualified historian who states that "History" begins with written word. and how about answering those other questions? You're STILL dodging them. you are an absolute hack and have absolutely no credibility to anyone who reads this thread with any care at all. Skoda, in fact DID produce big guns for WWI Germany. | ||
| Tramp |
XLCR: Here's a book you might want to read, you know- being you have an extensive library of history and you forget nothing which you've read: "Skoda Heavy Guns by Michal Prasil. The Czech firm of Skoda was the second largest arms manufacturer in Europe. The heavy guns of Skoda and their unique gasoline-electri transports, served in both World Wars. Covers the 24cm cannon, 38cm howitzer, 42cm howitzer. Softbound, 144 pages, many illustrations 6E0288 Skoda Heavy Guns $19.95" *( * * you sure you're still feeling like telling me to "give it up" about this point? once again, you were smug and absolutely wrong when you said that Skoda didn't manufacture big guns for germany in WWI You have no credibility whatsoever. i'm actually beginning to feel bad for you. | ||
| Tramp |
son of a "GUN" here's a picture of a Skoda Big gun being employed by the German Army: http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/graphics/cnp_skoda_01.jpg ooops- I'm sure it's fakie, right? credibility, xlcr: 0 |
