| Author | Message | ||
     Bomber |
Right as rain, Tramp -- removes all the stress of research, decision making, and that kinda thing let your reptilian brainstem be in charge! | ||
| CJXB |
Ceej -- your last post was positively Blake-like OMG say it isn't soooooo !!!!  | ||
| Blake |
I prefer the foam. | ||
| Tramp |
the unbearable foaminess of the reptilian brainstem.... | ||
| CJXB |
I believe the girl uses the foam, the guy rubber !!  | ||
| Tramp |
DOH!  (c'mon, CJ- I'm a recovering Catholic, here  ) | ||
| Midnightrider |
and to think when I was on another forum I used to complain when I couldn't get any answers | ||
| Jackbequick |
I don't get the discussion of putting any protection on the cables when they are removed. Just for the record, and in case anyone is not clear on it, electricity flows from the black (-) post to the red (+) post. So the safe way to disconnect a battery is to remove the negative (black) lead from the battery post (not from the frame!) first. That cable cannot cause shorts after it is removed from the battery post. The other end of that cable is already bolted to the frame. Then remove the positive (red) lead. With the black lead already off the battery, there is no danger if the red touches the frame or anything else. It's a done deal! Make sure you reverse the process when putting them back, positive cable on first, then negative cable. Jack | ||
| Tramp |
I was seriously wondering about that post, myself. I just assumed the poster removes his cables from the machine and leaves them attached to the battery for some undisclosed sadomasochistic extramotorcyular activity... | ||
| Pammy |
There are several good small chargers out there and they vary in price. I would look for one with reverse polarity protection. I would suspect most of them come this way and I would also look for one with a "float/maintenance" feature, which keeps the battery at a certain level without your attention needed. They come in 500ma to 2amp. .75amp or 800ma (12v of course)would be sufficient for storage. The connectors stay on your bike for charging or you can remove the battery to charge it. (Message edited by pammy on December 14, 2005) | ||
| Dragon_slayer |
Heck Jack, now you ruined my fun! I do not know why people would place socks or condoms on disconnected battery cables but the image of it had me rolling all over the floor laughing! The electrical energy is stored in the battery, not in the disconnected cables. Note the term, storage battery. Be sure to not connect the two battery posts together by accidentally touching both posts with a tool or cable! A lot of battery types will self discharge over time even when disconnected and will require a freshing charge. The more money you spend on a battery charger will buy you a more sophisticated electronic circuit to properly control the charge current and to detect and end the charging and go to a trickle current. This equals longer battery life. Some basic battery care tips: do not let them over discharge, over charge them, freeze them, and do not allow them to get too hot. | ||
| Tramp |
like i say- i'd be on the floor myself, but i believe the poster may just be someone who disconnects the cables with the batteries(?). maybe i'm being too diplomatic here. by the way-it looks like the thread might be drifting toward "chargers" and away from maintenance "tenders" like I say, kids- jus disconnect the cables (or just one cable) from the batteries, leave the battery in the machine, and call it a day. a dsiconnected battery won't have any appreciable discharge when allowed to sit for 3 or 4 months, disconnected | ||
| Dragon_slayer |
Ah, diplomatic. Let's see: Disconnecting the cables with the battery requires unwiring half the bike. The tread is labeled "battery charger". Batteries will discharge even when disconnected. Dragon Slayer is full of ••••. Hey, I think I am getting it! | ||
| Tramp |
Dragonslayer- I said that a disconnected battery left for 3or 4 months won't have any "appreciable discharge. I KNOWS it'll still discharge- he*l- a battery left off a scoot for a yera or two will be outta juice. I'd stated that it won't have any detrimental level of discharge after being left disconnected for a winter. Actually, on my scoot, i could disconnect my ground lead (It's pretty short) and my hot lead from between the starter solenoid and the battery(also a short run)in a minute or two. Not that I would, but.... Anyway, trust me, i wasn't busting your chops... and I was being "ironical" about the chargers | ||
| Benm2 |
http://zing.ncsl.nist.gov/nist-icv/battery/battery/BatteryCare2.html
There are plenty of other sources for this info on the net should you choose to look. Lead acid batteries have limited life anyway, and long storage periods without charging shorten life. They CAN be overcharged, with very dangerous potential results. | ||
| Niceharleystuff |
There has been a lot of talk about disconnecting the battery during the cold winter months. I do not disconnect my battery during winter storage. I have a quick connect “pigtail” on my battery. I just plug it in and then inspect the battery and tender once a week to ensure that everything is functioning properly. | ||
| Tramp |
benm2- thank you for sharing some refreshing outside source unfortunately, my own experience over decades has shown this data to be false. according to the presented statement, a stored abttery loses 1% of it's charge per day. this being the case, then, my stored batteries should be dead after a little over three months. thhis is far from the case, however. after 5 months of storage on many machines here, with batteries disconnected, they start right back up when reconnected in the following springtime. according to the source you'd cited, they should have been long-dead at that point. simply not the case. i'm relating my own continual experience. incidentally, keeping a tender on a connected battery is the least prudent of all scenarios, as the continuity is still there, causing a constant drain and charge situation which is unneccesary in a disconnected battery, and which keeps a constant charge in all related components which promotes oxidation of connections and areas of unlike metallic contact...silicone dielectric grease or not. Your system and you battery are much better served by removing the low charge for a nice winter break. while it's nice seeing a different source cited, when that source claims something that i've found, time and again, to be untrue, i'll mention it. | ||
| Csg_inc |
Move to Arizona and ride all year. | ||
| Pammy |
Actually, Ben, todays batteries are made to deter sulfation. But I don't agree with Tramp either. I would invest the $20 to keep my battery in it's fullest state of charge. I would definitely avoid using my bikes charging system to "top off" the charge on a battery that has been sitting for 5 months. Not good advice at all. Tramp, I can see that you are a very knowledgeable man, but on this one I can assure you that a charger/floater is a better option than doing nothing. Before you blast me...keep in mind what I do. I can tell you from my EXTENSIVE experience that an overtaxed charging system will cost you considerabley more than $20-$30 dollars. Pammy sez, buy an inexpensive charger/floater. Disconnect the battery connect the charger/floater and enjoy your winter. | ||
| Pammy |
If you decide to disconnect it without keeping it charged, make sure that you do fully charge it before using it in your bike. | ||
| Tramp |
Pammy said: "Before you blast me...keep in mind what I do. " ummmm..."pammy"- maybe you should keep in mind what I do. I'm a certified BMW tech II who's been personally working on motorcycles for well over three decades. I have also cited that my bikes start up immediately with batteries that have been sitting for 5 months unattended (but disconnected). My "not good" advice is based upon 3 decades of wrenching on motorcyles, innumerable hours of BMW m/c tech training and refresher classtime, and in the many different shops where I've served as a service manager. Now, of course, I don't SELL battery tenders, so I likely don't share your motivation for encouraging others to buy them. ALL of the batteries that I disconnect from bikes for the winter start fine the following spring. I also live and ride (year-round, myself) in NY, as opposed to florida and we actually need to worry about downtime on customer machines. hey- good luck with your battery tender sales, though | ||
| Blake |
The 1% loss per day does sound exaggerated for modern batteries that utilize anti-sulfation compounds. But even at that exaggerated rate, after 100 days the battery would retain 37% of its full charge, which would be plenty to start the bike. After 150 days it would retain 22% of its full charge, still plenty to fire up the bike. The math... Where: Example: For a battery at 90% of full capacity that then sits for 30 days while subject to a 1% per day discharge rate, we would have... Eo = 0.90 (90% in decimal form) | ||
| Blake |
"I don't SELL battery tenders, so I likely don't share your motivation for encouraging others to buy them." That was a cheap shot and entirely uncalled for. Pammy is right on this one Tramp. Your experience is also perfectly valid. It just doesn't refute the fact that allowing a battery to discharge will absolutely shorten its useful life. | ||
| Benm2 |
Blake, Thanks for the science backup. Much more indepth than I would have answered with. Pammy, Posted the best link I could find. I know that modern Sealed Lead Acid are better than that link states, but I didn't have time to hunt for an actual self-discharge curve from a manufacturer. There was an earlier comment somewhere in this thread about not being able to overcharge a lead acid battery. I posted the link to address that too, as THAT could be very dangerous. | ||
| Tramp |
well.... posting that my advice is "not good...at all" seems no less cheap, and then the "before you blast me, keep in mind what i do" stated after balsting me, seems a little weird, as well. Like I say, I have many years of experience with batteries, stored disconnected and without tenders for months at a time, lasting over 5 years | ||
| Ceejay |
You have to look at where you two that are arguing are from, a battery from what I have read discharges at a much quicker pace in warmer weather-Pammy in FL where as Trampus lives in NY and usually has a disconnected battery during the cold months albeit may be inside, all I know about the situation is that they work fine if I take it out put it on the bench and throw it back in when I want to ride, but I live in OH where I'm watching four inches of snow and ice fall right now. Just don't put the darn thing on the ground/floor as earth will suck the life right out of it... | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Just don't put the darn thing on the ground/floor as earth will suck the life right out of it..." Just in case you were serious and not being sarcastic... http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm I found this on the internet, so you know it has to be true! There is no logical reason why concrete would suck the life out of a battery, though. I had a EE prof that dispelled this myth too. | ||
| Ceejay |
I was serious, cause I thought it was true, but it may have been due to the fact that when I see them on the ground it is becuase they were dead before they got there....good info. Thanks.. | ||
| Tramp |
first, "Pammy" says "Not good advice at all" regarding my experience. then, AFTER slamming my experience-sharing she states: "Before you blast me...keep in mind what I do." giving no thought whatsoever to what i do, or hwat my experience is based upon. ....and now she's "right on this one". I don't base the experience I share here with something I read in a book- I'm relating my personal experience, for no reason other than to share that with others. I've nothing to gain from sharing save for the warm feeling of disseminating my own experience in hopes of helping others. but I'm wrong on this one? soo....what, exactly, did I miss with all of these batteries that have gone for many years with unattended, disconnected off-seasons? If pammy's right in saying my advice is not good, it's clear i should keep it to myself. (Message edited by tramp on December 15, 2005) | ||
| Djkaplan |
My own experience tells me that fully charged batteries that have been disconnected and stored over a 3-4 month period have enough juice to start their intended vehicle, but if the battery is old, this may not be the case. New batteries stay on the shelf for months before being sold and they work fine for me. |
