| Author | Message | ||
     Koz5150 |
I was reading an article on the new EPA regulations and they are pretty scary. $10,000 fine for each occurance of altering your motorcycle's EPA performance. This would include drivetrain, air/fuel, and of course exhaust. Among the many questions in my head about whether my local dealer will even be able to work on my bike come January. I was wondering what a world with only stock bikes would be like? Could you survive? | ||
| Oldog |
looks like a lot of folks may have to "build their own?" | ||
| Koz5150 |
Won't be allowed to. Shops are not the only ones who can't change a bike. If you ride an altered bike you will also be subject to the fines. | ||
| Court |
I have an altered dog. Any problem there? | ||
| Ryker77 |
"build their own?" according to the EPA rules your only allowed to build 1 custom frame up bike per lifetime. There was a really great article in a J&P sales magazine on EPA rules and how they are going to effect the aftermarket and custom bikes. Don't forget that EPA rules apply to cars, boats, even lawn mowers. Heck I don't own anything that is stock. Even my lawnmower uses a bigger oil filter. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Well you can build as many as you want, as long as you pay to have them tested to meet EPA requirements. You can build one per lifetime that is not required to meet EPA regs. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Look at it this way. Kinda hard for them to find out with enforcement lacking as it is. Before testing, just put your stock stuff back on (Assuming you don't have major engine mods) and pass the test. Here in Florida they don't do testing so no worries here. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Cataract2, Easier said then done. For instance, your local dealership would not be able to do any maintnance on your race kit installed bike. I don't see cops pulling every biker over and checking their exhaust pipes, but you wouldn't be able to get your TPS reset unless you did it yourself. | ||
| Ponytail |
kaz, Where were you reading this? I'd like to read it. Curious when/where/how these new regs are going to take affect. I do own a stock bike. My XB12R is bone stock, so no problem there, but I have other vehicles that are heavily modded, and inspections...ummm...well...I uhh... one $75 fine for not having inspection sticker in 5 years. So far I've been able to deal with that. | ||
| Mikej |
I forsee a whole lot of breadbox air boxes going up for auction on ebay soon. I've owned many stock bikes over the years, they did just fine. They were "just a bike" bikes, but they did just fine. The EPA issue is going to be perhaps more flammable of an issue than religion and politics combined if and when it gets fully implemented and enforcement becomes publicly visible. I still remember reading an ad in the Sacramento Calif. newspaper where the DMV/DOT/CARB/BAR was looking for roadside inspectors and one of the requirements was being able to run very fast for a short distance. This was when they were gearing up for the onramp/offramp exhaust sniffer attendants. It also made a minor stink when the state started arming them with firearms. But anyway, I digress, so, yeah, I could own a stock bike. But remember that much of this will be subjective and very subject to local interpretation. Some might argue that changing paint or sandblasting/etching designs into EPA controlled components might affect the parts performances in reducing noise emissions. Alteration covers external as well as internal modifications, think about it. And this doesn't even scratch the surface of chromium elimination in the automotive industry, imagine what that will do to many dealerships once that issue takes full effect. It will soon get to the point that you won't be allowed to change your own oil for fear that you might do something wrong with the now hazardous waste oils. And be prepared if you change your own tires at home to one day be required to show proof of proper disposal of your old tires. Oops, digressed again, sorry, bye.....  | ||
| Koz5150 |
The most recent article I read was in Americon Iron Magazine Jan/2006 | ||
| Cataract2 |
Koz, I guess that's where being buddy buddy with my dealership comes in. They have a ton of customers with modified bikes who get them worked on there so I can't see them telling them they can't work on their bikes. Time will tell of course. | ||
| Eboos |
I am pretty sure that the new EPA guidelines are much to vague to hold up in court if a fine is impossed. | ||
| Doughnut |
yes.  | ||
| Mikej |
"I am pretty sure that the new EPA guidelines are much to vague to hold up in court if a fine is impossed." Think otherwise. | ||
| Glitch |
The EPA issue is going to be perhaps more flammable of an issue than religion and politics combined if and when it gets fully implemented and enforcement becomes publicly visible. You'd think there are other crimes that could use more strict enforcing, than noise. My altered bike gets better mpg than it did stock. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Trust me I am not a proponent of it, just curious to see if I will have to remove my forcewinder to get a 10,000 mile service. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
There HAS to be a cutoff year. They have to have huge stupid balls to try to target the smallest, most fuel-efficient group of motorists. | ||
| Koz5150 |
1979 when the clear air act was passed is the cutoff | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
My '79 XLH is starting to look better all the time. All it needs now is a new tranny. | ||
| Oldog |
As MikeJ indicates YES Think other wise! I came from an industry that has had to deal with epa rules and regs, You do not wan't active wood preservative solutions in your drinking water. If "they" decide to make every one run cat-convtrs, you will, If "they" decide to enforce the existing regs and you have altered your scooter and for either exhaust or noise you will return it to stock trim and or pay a fine, I have seen businesses fined stiffly simply over paperwork or house keeping issues, IF "they" decide in our best interests that we should not be allowed to alter our cycles because of _________________ [ hurrumph ] we will not be able to licence them, Also "they" can justify larger budgets and departments to enforce the new "critical regulations" After all "they" are preventing us from destroying the environment, and "they" know whats best for us.. Nate: In the instance of my experience I will tell you not likely, though "they" will make special exemptions for say antique cars, air planes, you can expect your car, bike, air plane, or boat to fall within the general guide lines. Koz what and who were the source of this information My $.02, if the regs are in place then its time the entire MC comunity stand up and say NO! make the politicos understand that as a group WE will take issue with those who will take our lively hoods, and recreation from those of us that vote bikers are known to gather in large numbers It might be that we vote in large numbers too, I may be wrong here the elected officials dont have direct control of the regs, they have control of and a responcibility for the budget of the EPA, get them by the wallet and the mind follows ........ (Message edited by oldog on December 06, 2005) | ||
| Mikej |
Cutoff years can be changed. For cars out west it was 20 years old, then changed to around 1968 or so when the PCV valves first appeared, then changed to 1955 and newer models, then back to anything newer than 20 years old. Or something like that. If it is 1979 and newer then all Buell owners in the U.S. had better start collecting their stock parts again. I think I'll start looking for something from 1939 or so, then slip in a new engine like the car hot rodders do.  | ||
| Mikej |
Olddog, The source and other links along with links to the relevant EPA documents were posted on the site here sometime back, maybe this summer or around September or so, don't recall exactly when, but it's on the site here someplace. Just getting closer to the deadline/activation-date so the issue is bubbling to the public visible surface again. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Who exactly is going to enforce these EPA rules? | ||
| Jlnance |
I know people mod their bikes for individuality, but for me, I look at it differently. If I bought a bike and felt I needed to mod it, that means it wasn't made right to begin with. I have a great deal of confidence that Buell can design and build better bikes than I can. If I didn't, I wouldn't buy them. So, no mods for me. | ||
| Oldog |
Thanks Mike: I kept all of my take off items I had planed to go back to stock maybe, what I think is soo weird is that you can build 1 custom bike in your life time, here on the beach you will find it extremely difficult to build a new house, say at writesville ( on the ocean ), but you can "rennovate" one. Many rennovated houses use no more than a small section of the original floor and a couple of piles the house in reality is 95% or more new personaly I hope that who ever did this to our industry/recreation needs to find a new job.... at say Mcdonalds...... | ||
| Bomber |
Pwn -- wel, states "enforce" the existing auto regs (at least some do) -- wouldn't surprise me to see the states pick this up, as well -- the biggest hurdle is the cost of inspectiona dn enforcement, I imagine -- if they can pass the entire cost on to the consumer (you n me), they'll likely do so -- if they can't (because the electorate cries "foul"  they won't -- all depends on who votes, and how with so many former "limosine liberals" driving Hummers in prosporate states, I'm thinkin the states may take a pass on this one, until the feds start withholding highway funds complex, ain't it? | ||
| Koz5150 |
Here is a link to the EPA and a 10 page FAQ about the new laws. It's interesting how in one section they say only motorcycles from 2006 and newer are affected. then later (Page 4) it states how current laws have been in effect since 1979. If they enforce the 1979 laws, that is where guys like Kevin (creator of the Drummer) will basicly be shutdown and stock breadboxes will be fetching a fair price on ebay. (I saved all my original parts) | ||
| Koz5150 |
I suppose it wold help if I added the link http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03045.pdf | ||
| Buellin_ri |
Don't sweat it. Here in RI we had a big emissions scare when all the cars had to pass emission standards set by the state. What a joke and if you can't get a sticker your not trying hard enough. As for my bike supposed to get it inspected every year but I have yet to comply to that, and have gotten pulled over by the law and they seem not to care about it. I've noticed cops bust the drag piped Harley guys the most. As long as your not doing anything to get noticed they won't notice you at all. |
