| Author | Message | ||
     Oddbawl |
"I imagine that when energy costs become consistently higher, the transport of goods across long distances will become much less attractive and we will see a resurgence in localized production." I agree, it may be happening already, there seems to be a lot more farm co-ops popping up around here, people seem to becoming more aware of what they're purchasing. Maybe it's a local phenomina but there's all kinds of little grocery stores, bakers and butchers ( maybe candlestick makers too, I haven't seen) in the neighbourhoods. People seem to like the personal touch instead of the cattle herding style of the big stores. I think it's great. It seems to help instill a pride in their neighbourhood that I haven't seen since I was a little kid. Mainly an in town thing, the burbs still like the big boxes. Kinda weird, we're talking a steel town that's been rather depressed since the early nineties. Is it happening elsewhere too? | ||
| Oddbawl |
"Oddbawl, I can't help what you take offense at. You would do well not to take much of what I post too seriously. The seal post was carrying a joke over from another thread. You can club as many of'em as you like. Hell, make a snowball fort outta their battered carcasses. I don't give a damn. I will still use it to amuse myself." Buh? I didn't even reply to yer post. What the hell are you talking about? You'll have to try a lot harder than that to offend me. Now I'm offended!  That whole seal issue is a Newfie thing man, I haven't seen a seal here since, well, never. We don't have 'em where I'm from. It's kinda like razzing a Californian about New England Clam Chowder. | ||
| Brucelee |
"Didn't mean to come off as dumping on the US, sorry bout that." Not a problem, I didn't really hear it as dumping on the US. "I'm really sorry about Celine Dion... A perfect system? Ain't out there. Yours worked for you. Mine works for me. " Exactly the way I feel. However, why are you apologizing for CD? "I'm doing just fine thanks. Somehow in the "tyranny of the government" up here, I've managed to carve out a decent living, I wouldn't be suprised if I'm in the top 10-15% or so on this board." Outstanding! Unlike some here on the Board, I don't feel you should be punished for your success. I think you should be allowed to retain your earnings and enjoy them. "This kind of political discussion is best over a beer sometime, along with another topic, Porsches." "Are you a dealer dealer, or an independent? I'd kill to get my paws on a decent 356 coupe. What is a C worth out yer way" Independent dealer. Stock mostly newer 911s. You can check our my site on www.belloffmotorworks.citymaker.com. The C values are all over the lot depending on condition lineage and the like. I am always looking for a nice one to stock and drive around a bit. Thanks! | ||
| Lowflyer |
Oh, sorry Oddbawl that backhanded apology was Newfie.  (Message edited by Lowflyer on November 26, 2005) | ||
| Jlnance |
They left their rural communities because they needed jobs. Jobs that had been taken over by bigger and better stores 40-50 miles away, with prices so cheap people could afford to drive the extra mileage and still save a couple bucks. The corporate mentality of bigger, better, cheaper will eventually be the ruination of the rural way of life and we'll all be stuck in some city somewhere, someday. Well, there is another side to that coin. My dad left rural South Carolina and went to college because he wanted a job that, as he put it "wasn't farming." He spent his childhood days plowing fields behind a mule and really hated it. I've heard similar stories from people who grew up working in tabacco in the summers. Which is all just to say that not every one has to be pried away from the rural life. | ||
| Ducxl |
Court said: "I have to tell you, our ace in the hole is intellectual firepower" and "My point is, BRAINS MATTER. It is an intellectual commodity" You're seemingly a computer weenie but,what about the rest of us who work with our hands?...I'm a machinist.WE'RE being left behind,the rich get richer by outsourcing and i get poorer disproportionately.Please help me understand. And,curiously...what DID India do to itself??? | ||
| Brucelee |
For folks who believe that the Global Economy only means loss of jobs, here is a little "tidbit" Based on the latest data, automobile production by US Production workers is now about evenly split between the BIG THREE and foreign manufacturers, such as BMW, Nissan, Honda etc. If you were to read the popular press, there are literally no new jobs created in the US. Yet, of the developed countries around the world, the US is a job creating giant. If Global Trade is bad, bring more on please. This speaks to the issue that is usually glossed over when discussing the global economy. You cannot look at the unit cost of an employee to decide where it is cheapest and best to produce something. You have to look at OVERALL costs and value. The workers in China are only competitive with other workers if the overall cost of producing a good AND GETTING TO MARKETPLACE is lower. There wage rate is just one factor in all this. This brings in overall productivity and shipping costs etc. One of the reasons that the wages in some of these countries are low by our standards is that this is exactly how productive they really are. And for my final tidbit, the last time I looked, the quality of US built Hondas was higher than of those built in Japan. | ||
| Brucelee |
"It's kinda like razzing a Californian about New England Clam Chowder." Hey, I LOVE CHOWDA!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Ducxl, if you're going to quote, please do it accurately. Court said, "My point is, BRIANS MATTER." You've now offended Brian & all his friends.  | ||
| Court |
>>>>You're seemingly a computer weenie but,what about the rest of us who work with our hands?... Glad I caught this first. I have printed, on very nice paper, your "computer weenie" post and am dispatching my wife to buy a very nice frame. I love you man! I am a 3rd generation I.B.E.W. style, good ol' pole climbing lineman. I spent the 1st year of my career (owing largely to being the boss's son) being lowered into rock holes in which dynamite (good ol' DuPont 80% Hy-Drive) didn't go off, with a box of wooden popsicle sticks to dig out the unshot powder. The next year, as luck would have it, I was "promoted". Did you ever wander how those orange aviation warning balls get over the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers? I am on my umpteenth pair of West Coast climbing boots and Red Wing work boots.....I wear'em out. I am on my 7th IBM ThinkPad (and last as I go Powerbook to gain access to ProTools) and I have NO FRICKIN' IDEA what happens beyond the cruded up keys. Bill and Josh do and they both scare me!     | ||
| Thepup |
Court,cheapest product that meets their needs.I have looked at the amber powdercoating on the new XB wheels,pretty shi##y work.I seem to remember a post about it.Buell started having a Chinese company do the powdercoat and the quality went way down.Would you say they went for the best or the cheapest when it came to powdercoating the XB wheels?Spin it any way you want,and please don't use tubers to make a point about quality,Buell/H-D go for the cheapest to meet their needs.Showa forks,why not Ohlins or Penske?Court,are you saying that a wheel made in China is better than a wheel made here in the good ole USA?The answer is NO,it's just a lot cheaper in China.Not bashing Buell,it's just the way things are done now.Let me repeat,The XB wheels are not made in China because of quality,they are made in China for nothing more than cost. | ||
| Brucelee |
The great thing about free trade and capitalism is that ALL of these different ways of buying and selling are available to all. You choose where, what and when you buy and the economy responds. If enough folks don't like WM, WM has to change or suffer the consequences. So, if the nutcake GreenPeacers don't want to shop at WM, it is there legal right not to do so. God Bless them! They can buy every thing in their life from Bread and Circus or the local migrant worker. They can pay more than retail if they want, they can donate all their wages to the homeless, it is all good to me. However, if you know the GPs and guys like them, they want YOU to do the same as they do. They don't want YOU to be able to buy at WM if YOU want to. They want to take away your right to shop at WM and for WM to be what it is, a big box retailer with low prices for people who MAY REALLY NEED THEM, and for the rest of us too. These Greenpeace guys are Nazis pretending to be Mother Teresa. Freedom is an deathblow to all followers of movements and cults. That is why these guys LOVE the power of government and the courts. They can use it to make the rest of us as moral as they are. | ||
| Brucelee |
Thepup, If the lack of real or perceived quality hurts Buell sales, Buell will likely react as it is in their best interests to do so. They may switch suppliers as time goes by and feedback is obtained. Quality and cost are always pushing each other around. Every consumer, either business or personal, is trying to make an evaluation as to what they are spending their money on. Often, they change their future path once they obtain some data. That is how competition works. Let the best man win. | ||
| Court |
P.S. - look closely and you can see the military 5-ton tractors, about 325' down, and the powerplant in the background. I guess you never get it out of your system, here's two from just a couple weeks ago.   By the way. . . can I get you to write me a letter of reference? | ||
| Thepup |
Bruce,I understand,but do you think the XB wheels are made in China for quality or cost?Just using them as an example.I have no problem shopping at Wal-Mart. | ||
| Brucelee |
They are weeping in SEATTLE!!!!!!!!!!! "Labor Complaint Hits Starbucks By STEVEN GRAY Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL November 26, 2005; Page A4 The National Labor Relations Board has issued a complaint alleging that Starbucks Corp. tried to block workers at three New York City outlets from participating in union activities. The federal agency's complaint, issued Nov. 18, accuses Starbucks of firing an employee who "supported and assisted" a union. The complaint also alleges that the company penalized other employees who supported union activities, and barred store employees from wearing pro-union pins. A hearing is set for Feb. 7 before an administrative judge in New York." | ||
| Brucelee |
Black Friday is off and running! "There were no apparent signs yesterday of shopper fatigue. Rather, consumers responded to the big early discounts on everything from dirt-cheap laptop computers at Best Buy Co. to half-priced digital cameras at Target Corp. Department store Kohl's Corp. offered coupons for store credit on purchases over a certain amount. So intensely did consumers covet some deals that fights broke out and security guards were called in at some malls and stores. Some analysts worry that stores are luring customers with discounts so large they will eat into profit margins for the most important quarter of the year. Trying to overcome last year's holiday stumble when it offered lackluster bargains at the start of the holiday shopping burst, the world's biggest retailer, Wal-Mart Stores Inc., promoted many more deals this year, from a 42-inch plasma screen television for $997 to a Hewlett-Packard Co. notebook computer for $398, almost $350 below its average retail price. The Bentonville, Ark.-based retailer also put those items on sale an hour earlier than usual." | ||
| Ducxl |
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!!!! Court,i can't take standing on the edge of a two story roof without getting ascaired.And i see your feet standing a hundred stories up!!! Can we ride sometime? I frequent the Hudson Valley/Bear mt. I'm just feeling the effects of competition as,my boss hasn't contributed to 401k in 3 years.And the whole benefits package is also going down.Health is up to $75/wk ( my contribution),and projected to go over $100/w the next contract. | ||
| Oddbawl |
What's Black Friday? | ||
| Brucelee |
Black Friday is the name given to the day after Thanksgiving. The retailers hope for a robust day, that will keep them profitable (ie in the Black) for the remainder of the season. | ||
| Brucelee |
"Bruce,I understand,but do you think the XB wheels are made in China for quality or cost?Just using them as an example.I have no problem shopping at Wal-Mart." I am no manufacturer, but I can tell you from my days running a company how I would look at this issue. I always used VALUE as the determination as to where to obtain something. Cost is a part of value but it is not all of it for most things. I would assume that when Buell looks at where to source products it HAS to look at cost and it HAS to look at quality, as poor quality has a cost all on its own. Chinese products have to be VALUE competitive in the long run or it is no go. Specific to wheels etc, I can't offer an opinion. I do know that Buell has a market price target, just like all bike makers and is constantly having to figure out how to make money at that price. This is interesting stuff, no? | ||
| Court |
>>>>What's Black Friday? One of Steely Dan's great songs from Katy Lied. | ||
| Oddbawl |
Thought maybe it was the Native version of Thanksgiving... zing! | ||
| Court |
>>>>Showa forks,why not Ohlins or Penske? The same Showa, by the way, you'll find on many Ducati's. Buell would be foolish to put an Ohlins shock on. For MOST folks who ride Buells, myself included, they'd be no PERCEPTIBLE difference. And . . . (this is the closest you come to being right) the cost would change the way the bike had to be marketed and shift the MR/MC curve's equilibrium. I've paid over $20 for 2 of my Buells. Would yo be willing to pay $20k (just guessing based on similar Ducati's with the parts you mentioned) for a Buell? Tell ya what, I'd be much more convinced if you'll run out and shoot a picture of the suspension on your bike. You are sounding more argumentative than convincing. If it is truly important, I mean if YOU believe what you are saying, I just know I am going to see about $3,000 worth of suspension upgrades. I did that to my KLR and it was a HOOT. . . put the mega-brakes on it as well. I, however, would suggest the KLR sells briskly at $4995 with it's stock brakes and suspension, but would move off showroom floors much slower at $8,995.00. Besides....what would Al Lighton do? . . go back to being an engineer???? Perish the thought! QUESTION: What suspension do you have on your motorcycle today? | ||
| Pwnzor |
*groan* | ||
| Court |
>>>This is interesting stuff, no? I think it is. I struggle with the SAME issues buying guitars. The "Mexican Strat" really any less of a guitar than an American Deluxe Strat? I bought a C. F. Martin yesterday, made in America. Think it'll sound any better than the Yamaha Costco had on sale? Value means many things. . . . | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Dunno, don't care, long as it works! | ||
| Lowflyer |
I would like to point out that outsourcing drives innovation among other positive things. As Americans, we have watched our manufacturing jobs move overseas since our very beginning. We invent a widget, build a few and then decide its cheaper to have people with smaller hands and a lower standard of living make it. This leaves us to invent more widgets and the cycle continues. These jobs going away have consistently given way to major technological advances. If you are a machinist building car parts for GM now, you will be a machinist building something else tomorrow. Necessity after all, is truly the mother of invention. With 30,000 American auto-workers out of a job, you can bet there is a Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Michael Dell, or even a Sam Walton that will emerge from among them. I have a friend that lost his sales job and it was like winning the lottery. It forced him to work out of his garage making copies with a salvaged Xerox machine. He is now worth millions $$. He went from unemployed to employing more than 200 people in less than 15 years. It won't happen like that for everyone, but there will be a percentage of folks that emerge better than before and those folks will bring others along with them. That is what we do. | ||
| Thepup |
Court once again spin it the way you want,I could not tell the difference between Ohlins and Showa but is Showa the best ? Court wrote "By the way, "Global Sourcing" is more than a science of shopping the world's flea markets for the cheapest....it is an engineering discipline (at least Lars elevated to one, perhaps a science) that shops the world for the BEST" Do you think the XB wheels were made in China because they are the best or for cost.You can say what you want,but it was for cost.I understand the cost of parts would effect final price.Buell could not sell many XB's at $20,000.Let me ask again Court,are the XB wheels made in China because they are the best or because they are cheaper to make,keeping the price on the finished product down?I am going to guess I will get another answer that answers every question but the one asked,typical spin. | ||
| Court |
Mr. Pup, your lack of acutity hinders you. "Best" is a matter of cost AND quality. You have shortsightedly made the sophormoric assumption of equating "best" to simply mean the least nominal dollars. Buell INDEED seeks, in fact MUST, keep the price down. Know why? You are I are cheap? Other than the intermittent indulgance, I consider cost when buying. Think of it this way. Buell sourced the wheels for many of the same reasons Porsche will be bringing us the new Cayman. It made more sense than spending say $700 per wheel for PM's or, with Castalloy on the verge of major problems, risking an unreliable supply chain. You recall, doubtless, that Erik Buell paid his way through college in part by selling wheels. I'd suggest he has more than a passing interest and familiarity with them. COST alone (I've spare you the famous Ruskin quote) is a poor indicator of fitness for purpose or "quality". I bear grave news in sharing with you that my $18 running chronometer I wear keeps far more accurate time than my daily Rolex. Do you think the Rolex, costing several hundred times what the Seiko did, is several hundred times "better". It's the small mind that looks no further than price. The Buell wheels, by the way the envy of at least one foreign racing team, are an engineering marvel. If you don't like the powdercoat, do what I did two weeks ago when I looked at the sucky powedercoat on the engine cases of my S-2. . . promptly sent those babies to the top-o-da-line powdercoater and now they is much gooder. Are the cases any better? Not one single bit. And, to be perfectly honest with you, I supsect that the S&S Heavy Duty rods, which cost a boat load of dough, are goona doing not one thing for me that the stock ones wouldn't. The one point, and you missed making it, I would give you (you worked hard anough to earn it) is that the XB wheels are well. . . XB wheels. It's pretty much a "take it or leave it" deal. You don't like the color, get out the crayons. If you, in the meantime, need to sastify some primal urge to simply spend more, my wife left at 7AM for Madison Avenue and would probably, here at 2:00PM, welcome a credit card number from a willing benefactor. Just what the heck is it that pains you so about the XB wheels, why has it been a secret for the 3 years this bike has been out and where are the outcries of eagle-eyed discerning owners. Go get'em tiger! |
