| Author | Message | ||
     Brucelee |
As far as Wal Mart pay and the like, no one is forcing anyone to work at Wal Mart. If they don't pay market wages, they don't get employees. "That doesnt work,they WILL get employees for lower wages..........Didnt they just get busted for working 150 Illegals cleaning their stores..........but WALLMART wasnt aware they were illegals,non english speaking,or working for under market wages............{RIGHT!}" If WalMart advertises for store clerks at $8.50 an hour and all the other employers are offering $9.00 (with equal benefits etc.) how many workers will show up at Wal Mart? Answer, only the morons. Only a Moron will work for less money, all things equal. You may not understand what market wages are, they are the wages that the market (ie employers in the area) are willing to pay for a particular job. BTW-If WM is paying $8.50 an hour and you consider it insufficient, how much IS sufficient and how did you arrive at that number? | ||
| Brucelee |
Specific to illegal immigration (a whole other topic indeed) one can certainly fault MANY employers who hire illegals KNOWINGLY. However, it is very easy to slip into the US via Mexico and who would we fault for that? Hint-they all reside in Washington DC. | ||
| Cochise |
BRAVO, the question after the 8.50 vs. 9 is. Wal-Mart has profit sharing and Stock purchase plan. I have seen people work at Wal-Mart for 15-20 years, and retire millionaires, just in Stock Options and the like. I've seen cashiers within a year are the red vest people, then Managers and up. | ||
| Brucelee |
My fav. line from the article above by Dr. Sowell. "Third parties need to stop making such demands for other people. It is more important for people to have jobs than for busybodies to feel noble. " | ||
| Oddbawl |
"The fact that the poster child for Capitalism, the USA has the highest standard of living in the world suggests that we are clearly an aberration." Untrue. Who told you that? Bill O'Reilly? Richest, probably, but that's far different (sadly) from a high standard of living. Look up the human development index. #10. Look at all those socialist-leaning countries ahead. The criteria seems sound to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Top_thirty_countries | ||
| Blake |
"Didnt they just get busted for working 150 Illegals cleaning their stores?" Not quite. Who where the illegals employed by? | ||
| Brucelee |
Well of course, you can develop your own unique measurement tool and generate the answer you want to. However, you might want to read the following: BTW-One of the great things about freedom is your ability to move. So, if you hate the US and want to live in a socialism based economy you have that right. See following: Standard of living in the United States Life in the United States Culture Politics Education Economy Arts and entertainment Holidays Languages Human rights Social issues Religion Social structure Standard of living The standard of living in the United States is one of the highest in the world by almost any measure. On measures such as the UN Human Development Index the United States is always in the top ten, though generally ranked lower than the Scandinavian countries, Canada, Australia, and Japan; Canada and Norway have alternately held the top spot for some time. The United States measures better in certain quality of life categories than others. Americans are some of the wealthiest people in the world, with a very high GDP per capita. Americans are top in the world for most material possessions. The number of televisions, vehicles, and other such products per person are considerably higher than in any other country. For instance the United States has some 754 televisions for every thousand people, no other major state is even above 700, with Japan being closest at 680/1000. The United States also consistently has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, usually only beaten by Japan. While the United States' mean wealth is the highest of any major country and its median income is near the highest in the world, there may be a relatively unequal income distribution. Much of the extra money in the United States is the result of a much wealthier top section of the population. The United States also has more people below the defined poverty line than 26 other countries; however, the measures used to establish a poverty line are controversial and may not always be comparable among countries. The wealthiest ten percent of Americans are 15 times richer than the bottom ten percent. In Japan, for instance, the ratio is only 4.2:1. Some regard this imbalance as a product of the United States' long policy of having a more free market economy, while other countries are more ready to sacrifice net wealth in favour of equality. This entry is from Wikipedia, the leading user-contributed encyclopedia. It may not have been reviewed by professional editors (see full disclaimer) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The fact that the poster child for Capitalism, the USA has the highest standard of living in the world suggests that we are clearly an aberration." Untrue. Who told you that? Bill O'Reilly? Richest, probably, but that's far different (sadly) from a high standard of living. Look up the human development index. #10. Look at all those socialist-leaning countries ahead. The criteria seems sound to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Top_thirty_countries | ||
| Brucelee |
Facts! April 16, 2005 Wal-Mart Pays for Hiring Illegal Aliens An investigation by the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement uncovered that contractors providing cleaning services to Wal-Mart hired illegal aliens for the job. The investigation ended March 18 with a landmark $11 million civil settlement. In addition, 12 corporations that provided contract janitorial services to Wal-Mart stores have agreed to forfeit an additional $4 million to the United States and have agreed to enter corporate guilty pleas to criminal immigration charges. Announced by Assistant Secretary Michael Garcia, the $11 million civil settlement and the $4 million criminal forfeiture constitute the two most significant enforcement actions in the field of immigration employment sanctions since the laws were first enacted in 1986. The $11 million civil settlement alone is approximately four times larger than any other single payment received by the government in an illegal alien employment case. “This case breaks new ground not only because this is a record dollar amount for a civil immigration settlement, but because this settlement requires Wal-Mart to create an internal program to ensure future compliance with immigration laws by Wal-Mart contractors and by Wal-Mart itself,” said Assistant Secretary Garcia. “ICE is committed to not only bringing charges against companies that violate our nation's immigration laws, but also working with them to ensure that they have programs in place to prevent future violations." The case was a nationwide investigation into alleged employment of illegal aliens by cleaning companies that provided contract services to Wal-Mart. It was conducted by ICE, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, with the assistance of the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s Office and the Honesdale, Pa., Police Department. The investigation evolved out of two prior immigration operations that began in 1998 and 2001, respectively. These operations targeted cleaning contractors that were hiring unauthorized workers from Eastern Europe. The follow-up investigation culminated on October 23, 2003, with a series of immigration enforcement actions at some 60 Wal-Mart stores in 21 states. In these actions, ICE agents arrested approximately 245 illegal aliens employed by cleaning contractors and put these individuals into deportation proceedings. Immediately following these enforcement actions, officials at Wal-Mart contacted federal authorities and pledged cooperation in the investigation into the employment practices of its cleaning contractors. Wal-Mart also renewed its commitment to ensure full compliance with federal immigration laws. The corporate commitment by Wal-Mart led to the discussions that resulted in the civil settlement. Under the terms of this civil settlement, Wal-Mart has agreed to the entry of a consent decree that: Directs Wal-Mart to make a payment of $11 million through the United States Attorney’s Office; Permanently enjoins Wal-Mart from knowingly hiring, recruiting and continuing to employ unauthorized aliens workers; Directs Wal-Mart to establish a means to verify that independent contractors are also taking reasonable steps to comply with immigration laws; Directs Wal-Mart to provide, over the next 18 months, all of its store managers and future store managers with training regarding immigration employment laws while complying with pertinent anti-discrimination laws; Directs Wal-Mart to maintain its own pre-existing program of taking reasonable steps to ensure that Wal-Mart employees are authorized to work in the United States, while complying with pertinent anti-discrimination laws; Directs Wal-Mart to continue cooperation in the investigation of the alleged illegal employment. The civil settlement does not entail any admission of wrongdoing by any party. Courtesy ICE. | ||
| Jon |
The other day I was mowing my lawn with a special gas burning mower that is guaranteed to burn holes in the ozone faster than the regular brand, plus kill snail darters, spotted owls and the like, and wouldn't you know... the darn thing just stops working. I later found out it had, RUN OUT OF GAS. Well after doing some detective work I found out that WalMart was the culprit. Boy, was I miffed. But wait, it doesn't stop there. Two days later, the garbage man missed one bag of trash on trash pick up day. I guess I shouldn't have been surprized when I found out WalMart was to blame for that. But here's the real kicker. Just tonight when trying out a new Mexican Restaurant, I noted that the taco and enchilada were not very tasty. Hmm, now I'm starting to get suspicious. Well, my suspicions were confirmed when the Margarita came...WalMart was at it again. It was like lemonade with table salt around the rim of the glass. I was too freaked out to do anything...I mean what could I do?! | ||
| Jon |
It's a joke! | ||
| Thepup |
For those of you complaining about Wal-Mart why would you buy a new Buell,how many of the parts on the XB's are made in China or other third world countries?If you feel you have to take a moral stand,get rid of your Buell also. | ||
| Oddbawl |
I developed nothing. It's the measure that the UN uses, take it up with them. Did you read the entry you posted? "The standard of living in the United States is one of the highest in the world by almost any measure. On measures such as the UN Human Development Index the United States is always in the top ten, though generally ranked lower than the Scandinavian countries, Canada, Australia, and Japan; Canada and Norway have alternately held the top spot for some time." That's what I posted. "Americans are top in the world for most material possessions. The number of televisions, vehicles, and other such products per person are considerably higher than in any other country." Well, that's a much more important stat than education and mortality rates you've got me there... oh wait... "While the United States' mean wealth is the highest of any major country and its median income is near the highest in the world, there may be a relatively unequal income distribution. " and "Some regard this imbalance as a product of the United States' long policy of having a more free market economy, while other countries are more ready to sacrifice net wealth in favour of equality. " Seems to me that's pretty much what the gist of my post was. Your statement "USA has the highest standard of living " Is still false. No spin, just numbers. BTW the index isn't some great UN conspiracy set up by the French to bring down America as far as I can tell, they ranked even lower. Better write in to O'Reilly. | ||
| Brucelee |
Oddbawl, No need to blow a gasket. I CAN read and I posted the entire story about standards of living so that all could see. Quickly, No one implied that the USA or any other nation has the "prefect" system, as this does not exist, except in the mind of the critic. There are winners and losers in life, deal with that! I know the UN has an agenda and I don't agree with most of what they do. To say they are Anti American is a safe bet, so consider the source. However, the US standard of living is the envy of the world and I for one, like it just fine. I have no issue with the "uneven distribution of wealth." As far as I can see, the rich have earned their money fair and square and I have no issue with that. Punishing success has never really been a winning formula in any event. The US tax system is heavily weighted against the rich and still, there they are, money and all. If you want to level the wealth equation by the tyranny of the government, there are many nations you can choose to fulfill your wishes. Hey, lets take 75% of what you make, that's fair, right? I will stay here in the US.. Rich or poor, I like it just fine. Freedom, try some! PS-whatever your beef with O'Reilly, take it up with him. I don't really follow the man, so I have no idea why you are over the top with him. My training is as an economist and businessman, so I have my own experts to rely on. | ||
| Brucelee |
Oddbawl, Read and learn- Thomas Sowell The real revolutionaries http://www.jewishworldreview.com -- THE TWENTIETH CENTURY has been, among other things, a century of revolutions -- not only bloody uprisings and military coups, but also revolutions in science, politics and in the way people live. However, as much as the political left loves to use words like "change" and "revolution" as if they had a monopoly or a copyright on them, the actual track record of the left pales in comparison with the social revolutions created by the free market. No government of the left has done as much for the poor as capitalism has. Even when it comes to the redistribution of income, the left talks the talk but the free market walks the walk. What do the poor most need? They need to stop being poor. And how can that be done, on a mass scale, except by an economy that creates more wealth? Yet the political left has long had a remarkable lack of interest in how wealth is created. As far as they are concerned, wealth exists "somehow" and the only interesting question is how to redistribute it. The history of the American economy in the twentieth century has been an incredible story of the luxuries of the rich becoming commonplace among the masses and even the poor. When liberal and radical intellectuals speak of a period of "change," they almost never mention the 1920s, because it was not an era of the kinds of political changes they favor. But it was a pivotal decade of change in the material well-being and expansion of the horizons of most Americans, including the poor. It was during the 1920s that electricity, the automobile and radio reached the masses, when motion pictures came of age and began to talk. While technology and mass production spearheaded the changes of the 1920s, this was also a decade that saw a revolution in more efficient distribution systems through grocery and department store chains that brought the cost of many goods and services down within the reach of ordinary Americans. All this added up to a social revolution -- but it was not "change" as defined by the intelligentsia, because it happened independently of them and of the government, and was not part of any master plan or ideological crusade. As late as 1930, most American homes did not have a refrigerator but, by the end of the decade, most did. By 1970, virtually all families living in poverty had refrigerators. By 1994, most American households below the poverty line had a microwave oven and a videocassette recorder -- things that less than one percent of all American households had in 1971. All of this went into raising the standard of living of the average American. It was not political rhetoric, mass rallies or poses of moral indignation that gave the people a better life. It was capitalism. Even in the homeland of socialism, the Soviet Union, it was capitalists who created much of the industrialization for which the Communists took credit. The first new automobile factory built under the Communists was built by the Ford Motor Company. Germany's Krupp and I.G. Farben were also key builders of Soviet industry, along with DuPont, RCA, International Harvester and others from the capitalist world. Even when it comes to the redistribution of wealth that is at the heart of the ideology of the left, the market does it better. Most American millionaires did not inherit their wealth, but created it themselves. As for the poor, imagine anyone so radical as to promise to move the bottom 20 percent of Americans out of that bracket within a decade and put more of them up in the top 20 percent than were left back where they were originally. Yet this happens regularly and with no fanfare in the American economy. But even a big change in the distribution of income like this does not count with those who talk about income brackets and ignore the actual flesh-and-blood people who move in and out of those brackets. Most people who were in the bottom 20 percent in 1975 were in the top 20 percent at some point before 1992. The poor will always be with us, so long as they are defined as the bottom 20 percent, even if yesterday's bottom 20 percent are now among "the rich," as such terms are defined by those with a stereotyped vision of a static world. Dynamic income changes among people are concealed by talking about brackets, as if the same people stayed in those brackets. The left cannot accept the kind of income redistribution that does not fit their vision. These and other benefits of a free market will certainly never be called a "public service." | ||
| Oddbawl |
Didn't mean to come off as dumping on the US, sorry bout that. You made a false statement and I was drawing attention to the fact. Aside from Walmart and Depleted Uranium you guys are alright. I'm really sorry about Celine Dion... A perfect system? Ain't out there. Yours worked for you. Mine works for me. "Freedom, try some!" I'm doing just fine thanks. Somehow in the "tyranny of the government" up here, I've managed to carve out a decent living, I wouldn't be suprised if I'm in the top 10-15% or so on this board. Only one TV though, sigh... one day maybe. This kind of political discussion is best over a beer sometime, along with another topic, Porsches. Are you a dealer dealer, or an independent? I'd kill to get my paws on a decent 356 coupe. What is a C worth out yer way? | ||
| Lowflyer |
This is what folks in Canada do when their morals won't let them buy meat from Wal-Mart.   (Message edited by Lowflyer on November 26, 2005) | ||
| Lowflyer |
Hey, it's a good thing the dude who started this thread was not able to get that HP notebook after all. Check this out:  I read on GreenPeace.org where most of our discarded electronics end up in dumps in China where workers of all ages extract precious metals under deplorable conditions. Anybody here with a conscience should immediately incinerate all electronic devices in their possession. Also, you should not buy anymore electronic devices ever. That sh** is highly toxic. Lucky for me, I shop at Wal-Mart and have no soul. This little girl was forced to smelt this pile of wire:  This is what she looked like 14 hours later. What a little trooper!  (Message edited by Lowflyer on November 26, 2005) | ||
| Lowflyer |
Okay, my point is that you can find a reason not to purchase anything from anywhere. Hell, I suppose you could get real cynical about things and boycott breathing (e.g. suicide bombers). I reckon if you need some righteous cause to give your life meaning and to boost your feeling of self-worth, boycotting Wal-Mart is as good as any. As for me, I am boycotting strip clubs. That is, until they can come up with a way to make coconut oil without slaughtering thousands of innocent coconuts. BTW, standard of living stats are totally subjective. Take a look at the unemployment rates for more objectivity. Although, in some more liberal countries not having a job is not a true measure of relative wealth. | ||
| Court |
>>>>If you feel you have to take a moral stand,get rid of your Buell also. Oh, and shut off the lights. I am building an $880,000,000 power plant here in the middle of New York City and guess where about EVERYTHING came from. Personal favorites are the General Electric Turbines with MADE IN CHINA on the side. Neat show the other night about how schools are starting to teach Mandarin Chinese in kindergarten. 7% of the world's people speak English, over 33% Mandarin. It truly *IS* a global economy. By the way, "Global Sourcing" is more than a science of shopping the world's flea markets for the cheapest....it is an engineering discipline (at least Lars elevated to one, perhaps a science) that shops the world for the BEST. The cumulative record of the XB platform is a rolling testamentary to that.....so, when you ride around on your globally sourced Buell, you can thank your "Lucky Lars" and know you are riding a piece of American genius.....yes, with wheels from China. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Lowflier, I have been reading these posts and really never took offence to any of this bullsiht until you posted that picture. Canadians, primarily Newfoundlanders have had a long history of seal hunting. If your going to pick and call that immoral you better look at yourselves (Americans) before commenting. This thread should be stopped as it can and will get very political. By the WAY..........  I can send you a shirt if you want one. They make a great conversation piece. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
FKN Greenpeacers should be blown out of the Water. Your not a tree hugging activist are ya. | ||
| Thepup |
Court,I don't have a problem with parts being globally sourced,but to say it's because they're the best is laughable.Buell is like every other company,they will go for the cheapest product that will meet their needs. | ||
| Eboos |
Newfie_buell, I think that you mistook Lowflyer's intent with that club-a-seal picture. I doubt that he was trying to offend anyone. That picture pops up often without significant meaning (pretty funny too). | ||
| Rek |
My mom has worked 26 years for Wally World. In the begining the store in my hometown was a relatively small one, but still had a huge impact on the community. Several businesses went under almost emmidiately. The town square was a ghost town w/in a few years. It is only now begining to sport a few new stores. In the begining Wal Mart provided a pretty decent retirement package. Employees were able to buy one share of company stock and Wal Mart would match it w/ two (just count the number of time their stock has split since '76 and you'll see it's a decent retirement package). That all stopped when Sam Walton died. When Sam Walton died he was the richest man in the world. His fourtune was split among his heirs and six of them still made the list of the 10 richest people in the world. I have nothing but respect for Sam Walton. He was a decent, hardworking man, who called my mother by name every time he came into the store, which was fairly often back in the 'good 'ol days'. I do, however, refuse to shop at Wal Mart, or any other box store. I don't care if I can save $.02 or even $2. For me it's a matter of principle. Why would I spend money that goes to support an out-of-state, or even out-of-town interest when I should be supporting our own community? Just look at the number of Badwebber's that used to live in a rural town and now bask in the big city lights. Did they move to Kansas City or New York because these are better places to live and raise their families? I doubt it. They left their rural communities because they needed jobs. Jobs that had been taken over by bigger and better stores 40-50 miles away, with prices so cheap people could afford to drive the extra mileage and still save a couple bucks. The corporate mentality of bigger, better, cheaper will eventually be the ruination of the rural way of life and we'll all be stuck in some city somewhere, someday. Whew, my longest post ever. Bottom line, Wal Mart sucks the life out of any small community it enters. Rob} | ||
| Ducxl |
"Personal favorites are the General Electric Turbines with MADE IN CHINA on the side" Does the average Chinese citizen purchase ANYTHING(besides my manufacturing job) that is labeled "Made in USA"??? where is this free market/global economy thingy? | ||
| Blake |
There is a philosophy that holds to not purchasing anything that is not produced within twenty miles of your home. I think that is mainly for necessities, but it is an interesting philosophy. I imagine that when energy costs become consistently higher, the transport of goods across long distances will become much less attractive and we will see a resurgence in localized production. Imagine Walmart with an adjoining footwear/jeans/shirts/pants/ladies-wear/sports-wear/... flexible production facility. When transportation fuel prices exceed $100 per equivalent barrel of oil (EBO) on a consistent basis, things in the world of retail/distribution may change significantly and in a hurry. I still wonder if wrt material goods and technology, maybe the Anabaptists (Mennonites and Amish) don't have it right. Naaaah! | ||
| Oddbawl |
The Mennonites in our area are actually wildly successful. Big time into furniture mfg, money to burn. They have carriages and all that, but I don't think they are hard core, they still use power tools and stuff. We have universal healthcare here, they don't use it, they must get a tax exemption or something. If someone gets sick, the whole community bands together to put up the $200,000 or whatever for the operation. Kinda cool, but I doubt you could get it to work on a really grand scale. Awesome quality furniture though. No bikes, not much of a flare for fashion, homely women. Count me out. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Newfie, I can't help what you take offense at. You would do well not to take much of what I post too seriously. The seal post was carrying a joke over from another thread. You can club as many of'em as you like. Hell, make a snowball fort outta their battered carcasses. I don't give a damn. I will still use it to amuse myself. I went to the GreenPeace site to prove the point that you can make a friggin' 'cause' out of anything. Check out their site. It is well organized BS; they have a cause for any fruit or nut. I am not a tree-hugger unless I am about to fall out of my treestand. I say that, but I also do believe that the tree-huggers are necessary and fulfill a purpose. If God had made us all the same, this would be one boring-••• ride.  (Message edited by Lowflyer on November 26, 2005) | ||
| Rek |
Blake, I think the "sustainable ag" movement is the one you're talking about. They invision a 500 mile radius for food produciton. That would suck for me. No citrus, no fruit or veggies at all in the winter. Still the concept has a certain merit. I go to the grocery store an see apples from NZ, milk from California, in fact just about everything except flour and sugar come from somewhere else. Which is too bad. We have two large dairies in our county, and half-a-dozen meat processors. The meat in our store comes pre-processed and packaged from Denver or Kansas City. It's crazy to import these products when producing them locally would stem the flood of people leaving the region in search of work. Whatever, the fewer people that live here the more room for me. Rob | ||
| Court |
>>>they will go for the cheapest product that will meet their needs. You're doing fine.....now, take a minute and explain to my why the first Buell I bought had one of the most expensive sets of front forks you could buy? Wind that one up and then get on to explaining why racer, circa 1996, were taking forks off S-2's to use on race bikes? Work on that and I'll get back to ya and we'll start with the exhaust systems. >>>Does the average Chinese citizen purchase ANYTHING(besides my manufacturing job) that is labeled "Made in USA"??? Absolutely. Guess what? . . . every file that Alstom, Hyundai, et al sends me is written on (drum roll). . guess who's software? You got it!. . . straight from places like Microsoft, AutoCAD, Think3, Pro E and Windows. Ever received a file from Korea that was NOT in Microsoft Word?.....perhaps a spreadsheet that was not an .xls file? I have to tell you, our ace in the hole is intellectual firepower. Guess who they call in parts of Asia when their Earth Station Antennas go afoul? Hint, he lives in Kilgore, TX and rides and M-2. Wanna expalin why the owner of 6 Buells and a schnaggle of World Land Speed Records speaks Japanese? Hint, check his patents with the USPTO and get back to me. If you had to engage in cyber warfare. . . yo want anyone other than by favorite Buell/FJ rider from St. Louis or the whiz from Ohio? My point is, BRIANS MATTER. It is an intellectual commodity. Guess why the electrical construction firm I am currently working with built the largest movie stuido in Mexico? "Goods" go hand in hand with "goods and services". The GDNP is never represented as the "total output of goods"...it'd be silly. Don't get me started . . . this is what I did before I bought my first Buell and spiraled into cognative malaise.  I'll leave you with this. . . Where: C = personal consumption expenditures (remember not oly steel, BUT your Dr. and the Microsoft software AND the wages of that damned Wal-Mart employee who dissed you) Ig = government expenditures on goods and services (remember that last tax increase to buy jet fighters that all you nice folks in CA and WA built?) G = Gross private domestic investment - uh, that's be the $880 powerplant Xn = Net exports (the software vs. the Buell wheels, all tainted by treaties, tarrifs, attitudes, and the cumulative effect of some really smart and stupid people as well as national egos (ask me about what India did to itself by diverting resources to become a nuclear power) Gosh. . . all of a sudden, I am overcome with the urge to go ride me (it'll have to be German today) MOTORCYCLE! Does anyone here own a foreign motorcycle or automobile? Better yet. . . anyone THINK they own a television or t-shirt made in the United States? Some of this "specialization based on resources" makes more sense when you are from Kansas and know what #5 Hard Red Winter Wheat is....the world id BEGGING to trade with Kansas. Homework questions: When was the last time you drank coffee grown in America? Why doesn't Buell build a motorcycle plant in New York City so that can have access to the huge amount of available labor? (Message edited by court on November 26, 2005) |
