| Author | Message | ||
     Mikexlr650 |
got a call from my dealer, my bike is "ready". they are not able to fix it and buell will not allow any more warranty work to be done at their expense. a little background, i bought a 12r from woodstock hd this spring that had been used as a parts bike and then slapped back together and sold as new when they decided to drop the brand( i will not name names as to who leaked this info to me). the bike has not run right from day one, odd noises, heavy detonation, and low power output (compared to other 12's). woodstock told me all buells are like this, "they just run that way". next i took the bike to danbury hd (who have been very helpful although cautious with what they will say about the situation, understandable). they agree that the bike is not "right". they feel that they have fixed the detonation but are unable to locate the popping, chirping, and wheezing sound that the bike makes. while they have some ideas as to what may be causing this situation buell has pulled the plug on any more warranty work. (please don't take any of this as a rant against danbury hd, they have been very proactive and responsive with this unusual situation, dealer vs dealer vs motor co. they did find some problems within the motor which they have addressed, all to no avail to the original situation though). i have been issued a "request #" that is supposed to cover any future damage that might be caused by "the problem", hmm, how do you know if a later problem was caused by something that was never diagnosed in the first place? this is all quite frustrating especially considering the circumstances under which the bike was sold to me (possibly fraud?, certainly bad business, not sure if its even legal to brand a machine as new after being used as a parts bike?). every person who has ridden the bike comes back with the same response, nice bike, motor sounds terrible though, you should have this thing checked out it's still under warranty right!) what to do next? | ||
| Essthreetee |
I am missing something...How can your warranty be stopped??? If it IS still within the warranty timeline, that doesn't make any sense. I would think that someone, somewhere should be able to help... On the issue about selling a bike as NEW after it was used as a parts bike...is that provable fact, or hearsay??? I know I am no help, but it doesn't make any sense to me, and I just thought I would type something... | ||
| Jon |
You got friends here...keep us posted. | ||
| Ghostrider |
Well, if that happened to me, I'd have a LAWYER file a LAWSUIT and issue SUBPEONAS so INVESTIGATORS could look at their RECORDS and I could get a SETTLEMENT and get out of that POS. But that's just me. Also, most state Attorney Generals are into this kind of consumer fraud. | ||
| Eboos |
What parts on a buell are number matched? Are the heads, cylinders and other major assemblies matched to the crank case? Does the engine share the same VIN as the frame? If they are supposed to, I would check for this. | ||
| Court |
The ends of this circle don't meet. The warrant obligation of the manufacturer is not a fixed pool of resources with a "well try up to the point of frustration or the limits of our limited ability" codicil. A warranty provides for the resolution of a problem, not the exertion of a sum certain amount of effort, money or resources. There are a host of legal remedies available to you, nearly all of them rediculous unless you have exhausted the common sense solutions on the doorstep. The legal avenue is never pretty and even using the term "win" is a bit of a misnomer. Call Buell Customer Service. Call Buell Customer Service. It is THEIR JOB to resolve your problem, it's not a favor they are doing you. They are PAID to sit by the phones and provide CUSTOMER SERVICE. Before you call, go back and read some of my "How to deal with Buell Customer Service" posts. You need to have all your documentation, VIN, date of purchase and applicable information together. In addition, facts are actionable. If you say "my bike had a disworkablistic goncraunchulator from the day this dealer worked on it, that's actionable; they can fix it. If you say, "Bob Dorfman worked on my bike and he is a horse's patoot", I'll tell you in advance that Buell Customer Service, talented as they are, folks do not provide emotional counseling or pshyco-therapy. You need an ashole fixed, call a proctologist. Anyway . . . CALL BUELL CUSTOMER SERVICE. It is THEIR JOB to resolve your problem. | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
danbury hd feels that the problem lies in a mismatch or bur somewhere in the air passages within the cases and that it should be fine mechanically. buell states that air cooled motors are often noisy, some are quiet, some aren't, and they are not willing to pursue this issue any further. in addition i was told that the sales history of the bike doesn't mean anything to them. the recomendation was to put a louder exhaust on it in order to mask the sound. as far as how i know the history, i obviously can't go to deep into this without getting the people involved into trouble. they were able to describe the problems and oddities of my bike from memory of what happened while it was there. this was before i ever knew anything had happened. i then had the bike checked out by another dealer who wanted to know why i had such a new bike apart already. at this point i knew i was on to something and the people who told me the original story might be right (i had obviously hoped that they had the wrong bike), so i'm willing to take them for their word. in addition they have nothing to gain, only to lose in fact. i have inquired about issuing an extended warranty to no avail. they state that the issue is closed because i have been issued a "request #" that will follow this bike. not satisfactory obviously. | ||
| Arch379 |
sorry to hear about this . i own the yellow 9s on perkins drive, if you need any group support in your corner ,count me in. | ||
| Careyj |
Mikexlr650 my advice to you is to seek legal counsel about the lemon law there since it was sold as a new bike and keep all your copies of your repair orders because you'll need them. I know from past experience. This is why I didn't buy another Buell here in AZ, un-supporting dealers here could care less about Buells, because they can't make any money off them and believe me I worked at one as a salesman and I'm the only one the Buell guys came to with a problem even for service. I owned my S2 for 9 great years and it was an awesome bike and only one dealer ever worked on my bike for recall work and they let me stand there and watch them work on it, I was friends with the owner and rode with the Buell techs. They 100% supported Buells and went out or there way to help any Bueller and some even trucked there bikes from other states just to have a dealer like that. Don't get me wrong I still love Buells and ride with the local BRAG chapter, but went to the dark side and bought a 05 ZX6R 636. | ||
| Rek |
See Court's post above. He knows of what he speaks. Rob | ||
| Blake |
Yep, what Court said, just not so creative/entertaining had I written it.  | ||
| Court |
Let me say several things. First: >>>>the recomendation was to put a louder exhaust on it in order to mask the sound. ANSWER: I don't beleive that. This is where these things go terribly off course, when folks start insinuating absurd actions on the part of the other party. "Proving" someone an idiot is a poor way to commence the resolution of a problem. Let's, first, get past that part. >>>>my advice to you is to seek legal counsel about the lemon law ANSWER: Lemon laws are very misunderstood. It's just me (and I am about to file a legal action in Waukesha County Court next week) but I'd think VERY CAREFULLY and make certain you have exhasuted reasonable avenues to resolve your problem first. EXAMPLE: I was once invovled in a lemon law type of "buy back". The guy had some real problems but rather than solve them he threatened Harley-Davidson (folks who are pretty well over staffed with attorneys and no stanger to litagation) and got just what he wanted, his bike bought back. Trouble is that many folks forget the "depreciation" factor. Look, if you rode those miles on the bike you had, the miles are defacto evidence to that fact, "beneficial use" and your argument fails, at least for those miles, that you were "denied use of" the bike for that period. Bottom line is, guys case was good, but he had a ton of miles on the bike. Folks come, collect his S-1 and present him with a check for like $2,100 and he's sitting there lloking like he just took a big one in a small hole. He "chose unwisely". "Act like a grown-up to be treated as one"....hangs over my desk. Lastly. . . I am unconvinced your problem is beyond resolution. Good news, both Buell and Harley-Davidson sell motorcycles, they are in the business and darn good at it. They have a HUGE interest in happy customers (like my own fool self who has been buying Buells for 18 years) and making you happy is probably a bigger deal to them than to you.....whether you realize it or not. Problems start when the chest pounders appear and convince an otherwise nice person to do stupid things. Persciption. . . . 2 deep breathes, read the above post, count to 10 and solve the problem. If you need help, as always, I'd be pleased to look at it. | ||
| Marks3tbillet |
Court is right. Customer Service has done great for me in the past. Mark | ||
| Cochise |
So that's the way help is answered, call mike a liar, that's a good way to treat this situation. | ||
| Cataract2 |
What's the old saying. You get more flies with honey than with vinegar. My dealership has made some mistakes with my bike and I was pissed about it. Rather than walk in there raising hell, I went in and talked calmly to them and explained the situation. They fixed the problem right away and with no hassle. I'm the type who believes in treating someone with respect so long as they return it. | ||
| Saintly |
Hey Mike, Do you remember the conversation that I had with you at Liberty H-D in regards to a certain person that we saw there? Do you remember what I told you as it pertained toward that persons attitude toward the LEGITAMITE problems that I had and the comments that they made toward me? It sucks to be dealt with that way doesn't it? I wouldn't take that sh*t, and I don't think you should either. Good luck. Fritz | ||
| Lowflyer |
The sidelines are a hard place to coach from. If I were in Mike's shoes, I think I would be on the phone to Buell Customer Service everyday until my problem was solved. Then I would send them a fruit basket with a well-written 'thank you' note. | ||
| Cochise |
We that have been in THAT predicament know what it feels like, and YES, it does happen like Mike says, Cochise has been there. I have never been asked if I'm Erik, and I've never been told to get a louder exhaust, but I am QUITE certain it DOES happen. | ||
| Sarodude |
I was in a situation when I bought my first Blast brand new. My better half had bought one as well. I kept trying to point out that mine was INSANELY clattery compared to her's. I was continually told I was a jackass. Just under the 500 mile mark, my brand new bike dropped a valve and trashed the entire top end. The saga begins... In the 6 months I had this bike, it had one top end rebuild (which by itself took more than Ca's 30 day lemon threshold) and 2 new motors from the factory. In installing these motors, the dealership in question kept screwing up other stuff. I tried to get 'em to fix their mistakes but they simply caused at least one problem for each one they "fixed". On the second isolator bolt issue I called the dealer and STATED to him in the simplest, calmest, most matter of fact manner, "Paul, this is Saro. Yeah, the guy with the hard luck blast. Listen, this isn't working out. I have no confidence in this bike. For whatever reason, this bike doesn't like living with this owner. Let me know when you're coming to pick up this bike and when I can pick up another new one. I don't care about color. I don't care when it gets here. Just please come and take this Blast away." No resistance. 1 week later I rode home on a brand new Blast. Now, in previous dealings, I hadn't been so calm. I was PI55ED. This was my FIRST new vehicle and first bike. I was eager to break my prime directive and was insisting that the dealer handle what they must under warranty when I KNEW that the only way it would ever be fixed was to do it myself. I yelled, bitched, moaned. I called Buell CS daily. I was a pain in the arse. By being a bunghole I simply watched the problem perpetuate. Please understand that I've excluded a LOT of details. There were MANY dealer vists, MANY phone calls, MANY problems. In this case, all but the original engine blow up were attributable to dealer mistakes. Eventually, the dealership and Buell CS leveraged the zero depreciation buyback deal they had on the blast (that was supposed to only be good for Big Buell or Sporty purchases) and did a one for one. Not sure what woulda happened had that not been an option but I'll never know. Relax. Approach the problem like it's a mutual one. Solve the problem. -Saro | ||
| Court |
Cochise: No one called Mike a liar. I want him to get his problems solved. I want him to avoid the dramatic side trips that threatening to sue and so forth will take him on. I, this is my PERSONAL OPINION, do not believe anyone at Buell Customer Service told him to get a louder exhaust and simply mask a problem. I say this not because they don't have a great sense of humor, but I know that all their conversations are subject to review and I know the tremendously scutiny they come under as to every word they say. If any of your inuendo is directed toward me for goodness sake suck it up and say so. I've developed a pretty think skin, taken my share of shots over the years and am interested in solving problems, not playing a role in a drama. Put up or stand down. You wanna help him solve this? Court Canfield | ||
| Court |
>>>>I think I would be on the phone to Buell Customer Service everyday until my problem was solved.
| ||
| Cochise |
I may be wrong, but it reads to me that he didn't say, Buell C.S. told him to get a louder exhaust, just that it was recommended. It WAS directed at you, and I won't apologize for it, and it isn't to puff my chest, I don't think that it is good to say that someone Probably WASN'ttold something they know was said. IF I don't believe you're real name is Court Canfield and stated as such, I would be calling you a liar, whether or not I said, "Hey dude, you're a liar." Mike is a personal friend of mine, just like E.B. is a friend of yours and I want both of them to be exonerated. I am a firm Supporter of Buell and HIS company. I have Erik's phone number and will call him (not about this, but in general) when I get over my fear of talking to someone I admire. I think Buell/Harley would be FAR better off if they would make every customer happy, even if it takes losing a few MORE dollars than they probably already do. Buell/Harley sells a video through their website and dealers of people doing stunts on Buells, but if we are caught doing a wheelie, we will lose warrantees. I admire you Court, and it pains me to see you inadvertantly or blatantly (not saying it's blatant) insinuating that someone isn't being completely forthright. | ||
| Court |
There's a fine line with regard to the "parts bike" issue. Some of you recall the litigation Dodge got into and know well why Buell, back in 1998, couldn't just "swap my painted wheels for PM's". I had this happen 4 Saab's ago and ended up having to take legal action. Bruno Saab, in Brooklyn, removed the allow wheels (replaced with steel) removed a couple fuses (stuff didn't work), removed the floor mats and several other items. I went to the dealer, trying to exhaust the "friendly guy" options only to be told that when an item is listed as an option on the window sticker it just means the dealer has the "option" to provide it. Yeah, right . . . I paid $600 for allow wheels and you simply decided not to put them on. It took a long time (18 months) to resolved through legal channels. It is an accurate statement that New York's Attorney General is REALLY into this stuff. I have, on two occasions, one e-bay fraud and one a physical threat right here on good ol' Badweb, gone to the AG's office. Spitzer takes this stuff serious as death and they are a good resource. I'd just reiterate that as easy as the tough guy "sue the bastards" approach is, it's slow and painstaking. I'd go for results. | ||
| Lowflyer |
<<buell states that air cooled motors are often noisy, some are quiet, some aren't, and they are not willing to pursue this issue any further. in addition i was told that the sales history of the bike doesn't mean anything to them. the recomendation was to put a louder exhaust on it in order to mask the sound.>> This would have been clearer had it been started with, "I called Buell Customer Service on dd/mm/yy and spoke to _____. This person told me the following:....." (Message edited by Lowflyer on November 24, 2005) | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
court, please do not think i am putting words into anyones mouth. the employee of danbury hd who told me "to put a louder exhaust on it to cover up the sound" is a stand up guy, i am shore he would be willing to repeat what he said for you. he was in no way implying that it would fix the situation, just a way to make the bike less annoying to ride. and yes he too felt it was annoying to ride with the sound that it makes. | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
didn't mean to start everyone fighting. I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO BUELL CS, only to danbury hd (who, i will say again have been very helpful, i do really believe that they had tried to fix it). danbury already has 3 times the amount of hours into the bike than buell is willing to pay for. i do not feel slighted by them at all, i grew up working in a bike shop and these type of things happen (even with japanese bikes!). i don't believe i am being "dramatic" here at all, i'm not spouting off or calling names or anything of the type, only coming here looking for suggestions of what to do next. court, i have a great deal of respect for what you usually write on this site, please don't assume anything, if i am unclear about something just ask. i am trying to resolve this problem in the simplest manner possible. i have no interest in law suits, been down that road and it's not fun. | ||
| Court |
That clears it up for me. You complete sentence was precisely as follows: The prior reference to, as to who you were dealing with, was I hope you see where I read this to infer that someone at Buell said that. When I said II don't believe" it was based on those, flawed now that you have explained yourself, assumptions.} Your problem can be solved quickly and with no hassle. I'm sure of it based on the one's I've been asked to intercede in recently. Jeff and his staff at Danbury are quite familiar with how quickly even a $3,000 "fix" can be effected. Hint: Calling Erik Buell about an issue like this is akin to calling the President to complain about the sales tax rate in Newburgh. It's not that he can't do something, but it (in my personal opinion) certainly lengthens the pathway to resolution. I know, because I work for a company that has a Chairmen who loves calling the Chairmen of another company making demands. Their purchasing group calls me, and quite entertained, that they did what they were going to do anyway. . .. it just tool 3 times as long when 9 egos and personalities got involved. In the world of customer service there are two key components (see Value Added Customer Service by Reilly) they are "speed of delivery" and "appropriateness of solution". The PERFECT solution, delivered in 6 months, is worthless to everybody. A GOOD solution, delivered with gusto and promptly, is what world class customer service is all about. Don't beleive me? . . . . ask the Badwebber who had a problem, called me and a Buell tech was landing at the local airport within hours with a flight case full of tools and parts. With all due respect, if I'd have called Erik Buell on that one, it'd added 3 days to the process. Call him today and it may add an enternity. I'll close by saying again. . . call Buell Customer Service. As the name implies, it's their job, not a hobby. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I would add that unless you do plan to take legal action against the dealership, you might find life with your new bike easier to live if you can try to forget the alleged 'parts bike' history. I think that knowledge just aggravates your situation, causes you anxiety, and will do nothing at all to actually fix it. If what you were told about the bike is totally true and you plan to keep the bike anyway, the only thing you can do is accept it, have it fixed, and ride on. Dwelling on the possibility that the history might be responsible for future malfunctions will only drive you nuts. I hope everything works out.  | ||
| Cochise |
I'll say one final thing, ok for now it's last thing, but, if Buell can go into backgrounds about what WE do to the bike, why can't we go into backgrounds about what the DEALER did to the bike? | ||
| Lowflyer |
If you read my post again more slowly, you will see that I was suggesting that unless one plans to do something with that knowledge, it will only drive one nuts worrying about it. I am also suggesting that whether or not a bike was a parts bike will have little impact on the solution to a given mechanical problem. For example, a broken clutch cable will have the same solution regardless of the bike's history. Just like Court never called anyone a liar, I did not say that one should not look into the background of a bike. BTW, I think somebody owes Court an apology.  |
