| Author | Message | ||
     Outrider |
Love the pic of the bike Court posted. I had that bike and a plethora of other Buells from Europe that really made my day, but alas, I lost them in a computer crash last June. Still, they remind me of Paul James old comment about Buell's being kit bikes. Same applies to the XB's. Then, I guess you could say Harley's are in the same category with the exception of the older owners who wanted an American made Gold Wing. Not a sound business practice, but I sure would like to see Buell expand the line to include high powered bikes in the motard and dual purpose segments not to mention a retro street tracker for the 60's rebel left in me. Incidentally, I don't care who copies whom to make them. In as much as Erik has the patent on the ZTL perimeter brake, you have to admit that you saw perimeter front brakes on custom fabbed choppers a long time ago. Then, if you look into most patents, you will find that they escape the "prior art" clause by merit of a unique feature that makes them patentable. Please don't get me wrong, this is not a case of Erik, Court, Buell or HDI bashing. Just design whims of a guy that appreciates the art of form and function and sometimes advanced engineering gets in the way. LOL In my particular case, I have no interest in spending a ton of money to redesign/build an existing bike. Sure, I would love to, but I would both break the bank and probably a lot of laws in the process. Ergo, a stock bike in a configuration that moves me is what I am after. I just wish Buell could do it. Perhaps a stripped Uly or XB12S with some aftermarket body work would meet my criteria. However, when I look at the frame and underslung muffler, I get cold feet. Love a solid tube frame with nothing beneath but a bash plate for the type riding that floats my boat, but that really destroys all the good Erik has done with his mass centralization program and makes the concept even more unrealistic. In closing, yes I believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and will most likely sit on my X1 until hell freezes over waiting for Buell to make my dream bike. Still, that is not a bad thing as it too is a stylish performance bike that is set apart from the crowd. | ||
| Outrider |
Just a few bikes that appeal to a Market of 1 (read: Me). There are many more, but I lost the pics in a pooter crash.   | ||
| Outrider |
And a really slick one...  | ||
| Buell666 |
so what is the basis on the first pic you posted outrider? (the one that court posted as well) what was that bike derived from? it looks kinda cool. | ||
| Outrider |
And all this because I want to go play "Harvey Mushman."  | ||
| Outrider |
Buell Devil....They all are cool and there are many more that I wish I still had. I repeated Court's pic as it always was one of my favorites. Incidentally, toss in a lot of rock in that Harvey Mushman (Steve McQueen's riding alias) shot and you will know why I have a thing for a strong bash plate and a clean under frame. Why? In most offroad environments, especially true in the desert, seeds just blow along in the wind until they hit something substantial (like a rock) to stop them long enough to root. Moral: Avoid rocks and brush busting if you like your bike. LOL | ||
| Blake |
There's a BadWeBr here somewhere with a whole thread talking about his Buell dirt bike derivative. Was recent too. I cannot find the darn thread though! | ||
| Jon |
Outrider, Old Dog - nice posts. I had a crush on an old used Elefant ('87?). It was years ago, I was cash strapped and couldn't react quick enough when it was for sale in front of the Hayward International Motorcycle Exchange. No sir, they weren't crappy. They had character and a loyal following around the world. Engine sounded great. (Message edited by jon on November 21, 2005) | ||
| Xb12rene |
Here are some pics of the different brake systems. Duc HyperMotard  Duc 999R  Buell XB12X  The hypermotard's frontbrake is closer(same) to the 999R system as to Buell's ZTL system. Different to the 999R the Motard uses only 1 dics for saving weight. It is the same system used on every motard or superMotard since the start of the sport in france long time ago. Here a pic of a Harley SuperMotard. I read about it in a German magazine, but unfortunately I can't find it anymore.  Rene | ||
| Glitch |
There's a BadWeBr here somewhere with a whole thread talking about his Buell dirt bike derivative. Was recent too. I cannot find the darn thread though! I can't find it either. He was asking about a transmission, gears, or something like that. He had some action pics as well, cool bike. It is the same system used on every motard or superMotard since the start of the sport in france long time ago. Wasn't the Super Bikers started here in America in 1979? | ||
| Glitch |
Wasn't the Super Bikers started here in America in 1979? Yes, by ABC's Wide World of Sports. | ||
| Sparky |
I don't see why Erik & Co. couldn't take the XB hollow frame idea, apply it to the rear subframe and make an undertail muffler out of it. Titanium internals could maximize the trick factor, minimize the weight penalty and the impact on the Mass Centralization Theory. (Then they could put a real bash plate on the bottom!) But it would have to look at least as sexy as the Duc HyperMotard's subframe. Waddya think? | ||
| Grndskpr |
Glitch, your answering your own questions, correctly, but well forget it....... Chop was this the bike you were thinking of????  Notice its still retains the S1 frame, swingarm, different front end but still a Buell R | ||
| Xb12rene |
My mistake, the first one was of cause ABC's race in Carlsbad, Ca. The french took the idea and made the sport to what it is today. Sorry Rene | ||
| Choptop |
yep... thats the one. | ||
| Glitch |
Glitch, your answering your own questions, correctly, but well forget it....... Mrs. Glitch often says the same thing. | ||
| Rocketman |
Court, you often say a lot of things about Ducati, not always good, but one thing you, and only you, keep saying is what a financial pickle Ducati are in. Why do you say these things? Are you more informed than the worlds motorcycle press? Perhaps more informed than Ducati themselves? I just don't get where you're coming from. On the one hand we have Buell who as history has proven have a habit of rehashing a design around for years on end to bring a 'new' model to market. That and the fact Buell are a subsidiary company of the very wealthy Harley Davidson Company says what? Buell / HD don't like spending money? They're ripping their customers off by not giving us anything really that new apart from say a quirky brake system up front? Ducati on the other hand have brought to market in the last three years a replacement 916 in the shape of the 999. They go racing on it at world level and win World Championships. Amongst other things Ducati have brought three new models to market this year. All retro's based on another era of racing thoroughbreds. In Ducati's touring range they have recently brought the world a new style of motorcycle in the Multistrada. Constantly whilst all this is going on, Ducati are upgrading / updating their ST touring range and their best selling Monster range. Better still though, they don't stop there. In three years Ducati have designed and built from the ground up two entirely new Moto GP 1000cc race models, and won races on them. Ducati are already well into development of their 800cc Moto GP race bike for the 2007 season. Tell me, did I miss anything? Frankly Court, you're Ducati comments seem that ridiculous you should back them up with facts or quit dishing the dirt. Maybe it's the fact that Ducati are that successful you feel the need to bash them because really Ducati is the yardstick in manufacturing performance that you judge Buell by, so it looks good for Buell if you bash Ducati. Yes your comments pee me off, and I hope now that this little diatribe pee's you off too. Buell board or not, please quit the Ducati bashing thanks. It's become tiresome and a little predictable. Rocket | ||
| S1eric |
OK lets get back to basics. HD likes the dirt !  | ||
| Glitch |
must be cold out | ||
| Court |
>>>Why do you say these things? My comments were based pretty much on the article in DEALER NEWS several months ago. Could be bogus. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Ducati fan. It's just a company that has tripped over business principles a number of times. If my life were a "money is no object" deal, there'd be two Ducati's in my stable, one new, one old. Opinions and discussion. I doubt we'll all agree, tis our nature. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Cort: Where did the "enduro" hd pic come from? was that a uly concept tester? It had nothing to do with the Buell factory. That series of pics has been floating about the internet for years. I have the entire series somewhere. It's a fun bike to look at, I suspect the Uly would be more capable in the real world. | ||
| Jon |
Court - "Opinions and discussion. I doubt we'll all agree, tis our nature." Golden words. Well said, Court. I'd like to have a Duc too, believe me. | ||
| Outrider |
I suspect the Uly would be more capable in the real world. Wouldn't even think of challenging that remark. The Uly is a great bike and fits in a number of niches in the market. Sort of like what all bikes had to do way back when without the benefit of specialized parts and accessories. Can someone either post or direct me to pics of Buell's set up as super motard's? Especially Trojan's and other stripped down Uly's. Now that we are off in the super and hyper motard niche it would be nice to have some comparison. Then this could be opening Pandora's Box as virtually every XBS or their predecessor's could fit in the category. | ||
| Outrider |
Whoops...I just found Trojan's bike. Any others?  | ||
| Bomber |
Rocket -- just to set the record straight (in my best Blake impersonation {grin}), Court's not the onliest one that's raised Ducati's fiscal health -- I have as well, because, it's well, historically not healthy . . . the distributorship in North America has gone from coast to coast, piller to post, owner to owner, with the kind of parts/bikes pipeline difficulties you would expect of these kinda of issues -- these issues may not have plagued Duc riders in Europe or the UK (I can't keep it straight, are you guys part of Europe or no?), but they have taken the edge off Ducati ownership for many US and Canadian riders over the years -- the fact the Duc riders are so loyal and fanatic in spite of these business difficutlies (or, perhaps, because of them {smile}) says volumes about the nature of the bikes the factory has been bailed out by the government at least once, and but investment groups several times being Italian, strikes, new governements, and the quality of the olive oil market all affect the availability of Ducati parts You may equate a slower new product introduction schedule like Buell's with the term ripoff, and that's certainly your right (though I don't understand it) Suffice to say, it's relatively easy to bring new products to market when your conmpany's success is guaged on that, without the pesky need for profits -- HD has chosen another path is all I'd LOVE to own a Duc, and likely will, one day -- but it won't be a new one, so the factory will not benefit a great deal from my purchase | ||
| Blake |
Dave (Glitch), Thanks that was just the hint I needed. Found it. HD/Buell based dirt bike by Jimjib...    From... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/4062/157431.html (Message edited by blake on November 22, 2005) | ||
| Glitch |
Blake, Great minds think! Some times it just takes two great minds to make one mediocre memory?  | ||
| Xlcr |
Rocket, Sorry, but it absolutely true that Ducati's sales have dropped two years running, and that Texas Pacific has been trying to sell them with no takers for several years. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Ducati fan, I was going to buy a 900SS back in the late '70s when I came across a deal I couldn't refuse on my Cafe Racer. But like all Italian companies, Ducati will take the bit in its teeth and race itself into bankruptcy if not restrained by outside forces. Just the nature of being Italian, I guess. The real problem, from Texas Pacific's point of view, is that they see themselves as in the business of taking companies that are in financial trouble, buying them cheap, putting them back on their feet, and then selling them off for a profit. They are NOT in the business of long term management. At first, everything went according to program. They bought the company, introduced new efficiencies, cut expenses, and brought up sales and profits. Then things started going wrong. TP let it be known that the company was now for sale, but no one was interested. Meanwhile, the sales climb proved to be temporary, and sales began to slow, profits went away, and now the company is looking less and less desirable everyday, and TP is beginning to show signs of quiet desperation. Basically, the failure of Ducati would also mean the failure of TP's reputation as turn around experts, and if Ducati goes, they could drag TP down with them. | ||
| M2nc |
Man I missed the Carrier! I thought the rotors were bolted to the wheel spoke about half way down the wheel, Next best thing to not being sued by Buell, but then I went back to the site and realized that the carrier is the same color as the wheel. In my best Rose Anna Danna Danna voice "Oh, Never mind!" | ||
| Rocketsprink |
The two bikes that are being compared here on the original thread are two different beasts all together. I own a Buell and a Ducati and love them both for very different reasons. Why so much hate from this group? You people are the ones I expected to be more open minded. Now most of you sound like the rice-burner crowd that has nothing nice to say about Buells. Grow up.} |
