| Author | Message | ||
     Choptop |
just playing a rational counterpoint to the "Buell invented everything" crowd. Pointing out stupidity where I see it. Others here have said the same (not the stupidity part, that I'll take credit for). But now that you asked about how the Japs will respond.... V-Strom? ring a bell? oh yes... that one has been out for a while too. Heck... Honda's CL scrambler... been around for a while too. DRZ SuperMotard? ooops, been out for a while also. Did I mention the Honda XL series? hmmm, I guess I did. anyway.. feel free to carry on with the Buell invented everything and all the Japanese do is copy them mentality. Yer a real piece of work XLCR... absolutely amazing. | ||
| Choptop |
how about the brit dual sport/ adventure tour bikes? uhhh... BMW? nahhhh yer right. Buell invented the genre... it will be interesting to see how the rest of the motorcycling world repsonds.... Perhaps Scot will re-release something to compete with the Uly.... | ||
| Outrider |
Love Choptop and Grndskpr's input. Flash backs to my KLR650 days are some of the best riding memories I have in the California mountains, canyons and deserts both on and off the road. Heck, it even looked great with the battle scars. Yet I was even more impressed with the ability to sand them out and refinish the plastic with a commercial product from Chaparrel. Smitty...Is a lot easier to wait for something you have a clue is coming even if it is a prototype that may not resemble the production model at all. KTM did it and the only hang up is getting the bikes into the US. Yamaha did it and the only hang up was the production model being too far off the lithe looking prototype. At least Ducati is using the prototype and website to garner more input from the riding public as final input before coming to market. The ironic thing about their opinion poll is in as much as the prototype is a hypermotard, it could come to market as that, another Duke, or a Uly. You just have to add your input to see the way the questions flow. I think Bomber's reminder of Buell's affordability after purchase, a Buell version may be more to my liking even if it is not as good looking. Then, my X1 looks great to me and I can easily modify it to give me a quasi "Ducati Look." Still, that Duc Hyper Motard sure would look good in my stable. Hope I can afford to keep it on the road if it ever comes to market. Then, I have a couple of really great Duc dealers nearby. | ||
| Choptop |
Didnt someone "superMotard" out an S1 a few years ago? I recall pics of that one on the net. an extra ration of grogg to anyone that comes up with that pic. | ||
| Jon |
Chop wrote: just playing a rational counterpoint to the "Buell invented everything" crowd. Pointing out stupidity where I see it. Others here have said the same (not the stupidity part, that I'll take credit for). But now that you asked about how the Japs will respond.... V-Strom? ring a bell? oh yes... that one has been out for a while too. Heck... Honda's CL scrambler... been around for a while too. DRZ SuperMotard? ooops, been out for a while also. Did I mention the Honda XL series? hmmm, I guess I did. anyway.. feel free to carry on with the Buell invented everything and all the Japanese do is copy them mentality. Yer a real piece of work XLCR... absolutely amazing." What did you read in this thread that brought all the above on? What post are you refering to? | ||
| Choptop |
read XLCR's question and the implication that Ducati has "responded" to Buell with thier hypermotard concept, and now he is waiting for the Japanese to respond to the Buell Uly. | ||
| Choptop |
read Gentleman_jon's post about.. if yer gunna copy a Uly, at least do it right.... | ||
| Jon |
I just went to the Duc link..the music is very similar to the music on the Buell site...sort of techno rap grunge or something. That means they definitely copied Buell. Here kitty, kitty, kitty.... | ||
| Choptop |
then there are those saying because it uses only one disc on one side it copies Buell... well, Dual Sports have been single disc for a looooooong time. see XT, XL, DR for reference. | ||
| Choptop |
Courts vaue inplication that Ducati copied Buell, only to later say its a tarted up MultiStrata... which is what would appear to be to me. Hey, lets give a MultiStrata a face lift and make it look mean. Perhaps line it up against the coming Aprilia bike (as others have suggested). Not trying to copy a bike from a different genre... The Uly, V-Strom, BMW GS all fall into a similar ilk... the supermotards fall into another. | ||
| Oldog |
Did the japanese build a 1.2 liter off road bike? Please There is nothing new under the sun ....... same metals plastics and assorted, just a different sack I think the Duc and the other SMs are cool and sorta different to me though they resemble a cross between an older dirt tracker [ XR 750 ] and an MX bike with a honking big engine, who invernted what or does what who cares... | ||
| Choptop |
1.2 liter? nope. 1 liter twin? yep... like you said... please. the whacky germans have been building a twin off roader over 1 liter for a while. (Message edited by Choptop on November 21, 2005) | ||
| Choptop |
P.S. I agree, the duck is more of a SuperTard instead of the Adventure Tour idea of the Uly/VStrom/KTM/MultiStrata/GS | ||
| Rocketman |
Copied or otherwise, it's common knowledge and has been so for years that the Japanese copied the British and the German's (East and West) but the Japanese went one better, especially with the Brit's - they got caught resting on their laurels, and hired just about every person in the industry to achieve their goals. It worked and still is for the Japanese but if you really want the true definition of copying look no further than China. The Chinese are knocking off everything from tiny to large generators to Shadows out of Honda's back catalogue. Do Honda care? Of course not. They're in on it. Hell, a thousand dollars 'll buy you a brand fire new mid 80's copy XL125, made in China of course. Now that's what you call copying. Anything else is just peeing in the wind. Did I mention pollution??? Gulp??? Rocket | ||
| Oldog |
1.2 nope, so we did cool want rice have rice, want steak have steak all fine cycles. I can't wait to see if the Ural folks will build one, or maybe CZ! No wait the FU-KING cycle works out of Hung-chow PRC ....... | ||
| M2nc |
Chop, I agree with the Jap comments and said so earlier. Duc was inspired by other manufacturers on most of the bike's design, but can you deny the braking system is a direct rip off of the Buell? In Duc's website advertisement they say a new radially mounted brake system that allows for a lighter wheel. They could be sued for plagiarism here. Before you just pass gas (read my before comment) please tell me what production motorcycle built in the past has a brake rotor bolted to the outside rim of the wheel, to transfer force off the front wheel, to allow for a lighter designed front wheel. If you can find one, let me know because I'm looking and can not find one. The last Duc fan said the 999R and other Super Sports, nope, not true, they have traditionally mounted front rotors. So if not, then that radially mounted rotor could only come from Buell right? (Message edited by M2nc on November 21, 2005) | ||
| Court |
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| Court |
>>>amazing... of course Ducati copied Buell ... pulllease... That may be a much more accurate statement than the pundits would care to admit. If I were a Ducati owner. . . I know the Poll I'd want to take: Q: Do you think we should, for the 8th time in our history, overcome our acute financial situation so we can deliver parts? Q: If the above can be accomplished, should we reopen a store in NYC where we formerly sold (back when we could deliver parts) the bulk of our >$25K bikes? well, before someone at DNA took a mistress in CA and conjured up some rediculous reason to move the corporate ops to CA where they have essentially remained in disarray | ||
| Cluckcluckpush |
Is there a 1987 Cagiva/Ducati 650/750 twin called the "Elefant"????? Erik probably had his patents on the Uly way before that however... I remember the elefant was a real crappy bike. | ||
| Cluckcluckpush |
I will step back and let Court tell us the story of Erik Buell telling Gottlieb Daimler where the wheel on the Velocipede should go, back in the 1800's............. | ||
| Glitch |
Yes yes yes we all know Erik didn't invent the motorcycle. He did however create a bike that is unique. He also is a leader in motorcycle design that others see again for the fist time. Erik must be doing something right to create such debate! | ||
| Choptop |
The braking system a copy of Buell? uh... no... looks like a standard sportbike wheel, brake set up, radial mount caliper, forks.... with one side removed. how on earth is that copying Buell? (Message edited by Choptop on November 21, 2005) | ||
| Choptop |
Yes yes yes we all know Erik didn't invent the motorcycle. He did however create a bike that is unique. He also is a leader in motorcycle design that others see again for the fist time. Erik must be doing something right to create such debate! thats just it, some here dont. witness this thread... a manufacturer comes out with a concept bike that is in a different genre than any Buell, uses completely different tech in all areas... and right away, there are all kinds of posts about how its a Buell copy. People try to point out all kinds of things that are similar, when they really arent. Erik makes some neat bikes, no arguement. As for him doing something right.... it has less to do with that than it does with posters having some nearly pathological belief that everyone else in the motorcycling world sits around waiting for Eirk to fart so others can copy it. An extra ration of grogg for Court. actually, there was another one also... similar style. | ||
| Choptop |
wow...M2nc could you be any more off base? Buell does not have a radially mounted caliper. The Ducati does not have a disc mounted to the rim of the wheel. there are NO similarities between the two bikes front brakes, other than there is only one disc on one side. As I have already pointed out, this is standard on most Supermotard/Dual sport style bikes... hardly a Buell inovation. | ||
| Choptop |
Remember the Zuki 850 Dakar bike? The Elephant werent crappy... just quirky  lots of them running around this neck of the woods. | ||
| Oldog |
Cort: Where did the "enduro" hd pic come from? was that a uly concept tester? My hats off to who ever did that up CT: One disk rather than 2 as buells have been since the tubular days would be my guess.. posters having some nearly pathological belief that everyone else in the motorcycling world sits around waiting for Eirk to fart so others can copy it.  I don't know that I would have worded it that way Chop but at times it would seem so, On the other hand Would you say that the history of Buell is remarkable, and some of the accomplishments are truly note worthy Before the ZTL was introduced or fuel in frame. I have never seen any thing quoite like it. CCP: I will step back and let Court tell us the story of Erik Buell telling Gottlieb Daimler where the wheel on the Velocipede should go, back in the 1800's............. While YOU are at it tell us who else (cycle biz) has made such a big deal over some key Buell concepts brakes, usable power, light weight, mass centralization. I will give you a hint on 2 points in 79 their "standard" model was the lightest "main stream" production bike of that year. It was "touted" as the best handling ever (the rags said) it was made in 4 versions, crusier, standard, delux and sport. Who was the maker? please refer to MY above post in reference to there is nothing new under the sun ....... (Message edited by oldog on November 21, 2005) | ||
| Choptop |
I will step back and let Court tell us the story of Erik Buell telling Gottlieb Daimler where the wheel on the Velocipede should go, back in the 1800's now THATS funny. | ||
| Grndskpr |
actually, there was another one also... similar style. Its a black and white photo I have it at home, but its not on my work computer But i know of the one you speak I thought the pic that Court posted was of a coverted sportster Cant be posotive however I am sure someone will post it up before i get home R | ||
| Grndskpr |
Same bike different view http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/43/8596.jpg | ||
| Firemanjim |
M2nc,you need to read the description again as Buell brakes are not "radial mounted calipers" if you care to look at all the higher end sportbikes,radial mounted calipers are the norm and have been for several years.And that bike has a disc mounted the same as everyone elses --except the Buell ZTL system.And Buell calipers are NOT radial mounted,they bolt up in the old time honored fashion-perpendicular to rotor/caliper.Take a close look at the pics again and compare to a Buell system. |
