| Author | Message | ||
     Mmmi_grad |
Anyone? Im going to be buying these bikes for the rest of my life. Just like I have always been. But with Harleys way overpriced already, its scary thinking about future costs. I mean wreaking a motorcycle should not be the end of the world!!!!!!!!! It could be the end of the world when you tell you go to insure a 20,000 SPORTSTER or slip on some stones and dump a $40,000 ULTRA. If someday I dump a 17000 wideglide with a decent driving record, what is the insurance company going to do ?????? Esp when I ask them to insure another one ...........maybe we shouldnt think about it but Harley seems to be bent on sticking higher and higher costs on the bikes with out any control...just a thought. | ||
| M1combat |
There is a control. It's called market value. If they can sell all they can produce at the prices they sell them then there's no reason at all why they shouldn't price them that high. If someone can't afford a new one, they can buy a used one for less money. | ||
| Doughnut |
Look at the cost of Tubers. I got my S2 for $5,000 with under 2500 miles on it from a dealer. You can get most Tubers for under $5500. Wait a while and the cost comes down even for the XBs, a lot. | ||
| Daves |
Umm, the bikes haven't gone up much(and in some cases down) for about 3 years. Buells have gone down in price. | ||
| Tramp |
I could care less. I buy 'em used. | ||
| Chellem |
I hate to sound like a dealer, but they do offer a pretty good product called GAP insurance if you finance a bike and are concerned that the amount of your loan will exceed the amount you'd receive from your insurance company in the unfortunate event of a total loss. Most dealers probably sell it, and there are probably some non-Harley sources as well. Just thought I'd throw that out there. It's not right for everyone, but people with a low down payment and long terms may benefit from it. I'm not an F&I person, so I don't know all the details, but you could find out more, I'm sure, online. | ||
| Fullpower |
economics is not part of the curriculum at MMI. | ||
| Grndskpr |
Buells have gone down in price. Dave is so correct, if i am not mistaken, a NEW city X, is about 1/2 the cost of a 1989 RS Westwind Just something to consider | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Geesh, How much were they back in 1989??? | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Buells have gone down alot in price ....I bought my Buell from someone who also included his original invoice from 2001 12500.00 for my x1 he sold for way less than half price to me with almost no miles on it. Economics is economics i know more about agriculture world economics to make anyone puke. But really most people i talk to about bikes esp Harleys and some work at dealers agree they are way overpriced. I remember when the springer hit the floor I believe showroom was 11500 in 88 , now what is it 17500 ? I just heard starbucks is paying more for their employees insurance costs than it takes to buy and make thier coffee and any other product they sell!! Its great Buells have come down in price , It seems its much more in reality than Harleys are. I dont think alot of people like to talk about Harley prices, too many people have to justify the cost. I suppose this subject really got to me after noticing a big difference in Buell and Harley resale value  again and again and again. I have always admired the Buells since a 97 s1. Even though it hasnt been too long since it became cool to own a Harley and the waiting list days, I still think those factory bikes need a reality check. Market control? It isnt working here in NE indiana shops ask 12-13 k for a 89 or something stock wideglide. I dont think thats fair. imho | ||
| Loki |
$14,400 in 1989 dollars was the suggested number | ||
| Rex |
yep, I believe the rss I had went for `15,000 when new. my m2 was 10,000 out the door in 97, so the new pricing is much better. REX | ||
| Grndskpr |
$14,400 in 1989 dollars was the suggested number I have seen flyers that listed the bike as high as 18,800, rember these were the days of HD's comanding much more than retail, and i belive dealers could and would get much higher prices Such is the market R | ||
| Dana P. |
I'm with Tramp on this one.The Market is so saturated that the deals are out there a plenty.My buddy is picking up a 02 Road King classic all stock except security system,3800 miles for $13,000.The deals are there you just gotta look. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
New Harley prices are high because people are willing to fork over the $$$ to own a Harely. It wasn't long ago you could buy a NEW Harley for less than a used one!! | ||
| Bomber |
overall, bikes have remained fairly constant in price for the last (mumble mumble) years (enough years that the statistic is old enough to vote), expressed as a percentage of the buyers income exceptions are bikes in a market space that didn't exist way back, like a gold wing or high-zoot beemer -- the stat does apply to HD products, though, comparing MSRP to MSRP -- as the customer, you have the ultimate long term power over prices (shared with several million other individuals, of course) ;-} | ||
| Spike |
I think HD pricing is going both ways right now. MSRP has been creeping up a little bit each year, usually only a couple hundred per model. You can verify that yourself, harleydavidson.com still lists the prices for the 2005 models. On the other hand, many dealers haven't been selling at MSRP for quite some time. I remember $3k being the standard mark-up on big twins. At one point I was even told by a particular dealer that they could not afford to sell big twins at MSRP and needed the mark up just to keep the business running. The high mark ups seem to be fading away now. Dealers seem more willing to negotiate. More and more dealers are willing to sell current bikes at MSRP. This means that while the retail price of Harleys is going up, the average purchase price is probably starting to go down. | ||
| Loki |
That 14,4 was a msrp for a 89 RS1200. Take in all the mitigating factors of that time frame. A lot of them went for more than that. | ||
| Jlnance |
If someone can't afford a new one, they can buy a used one for less money. Used is good. There seem to be a lot of people who buy bikes and don't ride them. I bought an 00 M2 this year with 4400 miles for $4,000. Bike was in great shape with the upgraded shock and rocker box gaskets. I was thrilled when the Uly came out. It means I'll be able to pick up a used XB9S soon.  (Message edited by jlnance on September 28, 2005) | ||
| Sarodude |
Is anyone considering how much less the $ is worth these days? It makes the price of new Buells that much more compelling. Someone needs to something with MSRPs adjusted for inflation just so we can see a clearer pictures. -Saro | ||
| Daves |
1987 RR1000 12495.00 1988 RR1000 12995.00 1989 RR1200 13995.00 1989 RS1200 14495.00 1990 RR1200 14895.00 1990 RS1200 14695.00 1991 RS1200 15295.00 1992 RS1200 16495.00 1992 RSS1200 15995.00 1993 RS1200 16495.00 1993 RSS1200 15995.00 1995 S2 11900.00 Now let's jump ahead 10 years 2005 XB9R/XB9SX 8695.00 2005 XB12R/XB12S 10495.00 2006 XB9R/XB9SX 8895.00 2006 XB12R/XB12S 10495.00 2006 XB12X 11495.00 So a 2006 XB12X is 5000.00 LESS than a 1992 RS1200 Can you think of any other vehicle that is less today than it was in 1992? Didn't think so. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Dave, not just less $. Let's face it, they are FAR superior bikes. Even given the rate of normal motorcycle evolution. You truely are getting a LOT more for your $. | ||
| Kevyn |
I'm on Steve's wagon. Buell R&D is fantastic, producing a reliable product with really innovative technology---expensive engineering hours, development time, testing time, tooling time, etc.. I'm certain there are 'other' bike builders gnashing their teeth over the ZTL brake system---'why didn't our engineers think of that' kinda stuff. Park a new XB next to any other bike, look at the fit and finish overall and you'll see the Buell motorcycle stand out and shine. Buell motorcycles are technology bargains! Not to mention the fun factor! The late 90's recalls were a gut wrenching period in Buell history and I'm thinking the command from on high was to never let this happen again. I'm confident that the engineering processes and line build controls will ensure a quality built machine---consistently---that other manufacturers are wetting their skivvies about and seek to emulate for their own production processes. Buell motorcycles are a freakin' bargain. When I saw the MSRP on the Uly' I couldn't imagine how they could produce a machine of that caliber for that price...and then I looked around at the other XB's and the same thought came back. Excellent bikes for the money... ...if your name was going to be displayed prominently on a bike, wouldn't you want it to be the best bike for the asking price? | ||
| Easy_rider |
Per Sarodude's request: Using an Oregon State conversion table on the web: $11,500 for an '88 Springer /.652 1988-to-2004 conversion factor = $17,638. The price of Springers has gone done when taking inflation into account and it's probably a bigger engine on a more reliable bike. Feel free to double-check, I'm rushing through the numbers while I'm on lunch... | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Buell prices are living in reality, Harley aint . even with the conversion Easy rider has given us I cant justify it. Maybe I have seen them in little pieces for too long. I mean take a new xb and sit it next to new wide glide............I cant justify that with the WG all im getting is just a bigger bike a cruiser for 17000 bucks. A machine that has been in production for decades that has changed but ......then look at the xb for 11000 or something less. Its a technological orgazam!!!! Just a little smaller and it aint a cruiser. Hasnt been massed produced for decades, and sells less than a the dyna.... The difference of price just shows whats possible and proves it can and is being done. Buell is producing an awsome machine more and more people are wanting for alot less money than the inflated & overpriced new dyna. I dont wana bash Harley but i have wrecked bikes in the past and recently. What happens when ya wreck on main street , get a ticket or accident report , find out its totaled and want to insure a new one , the price tag of all of this scary! You know it takes alot more than some rocks on the road to total a new mustang or 17000 sedan. Getting dropped from an insurance company isnt cool either. One other thought comes to mind, If I were the size to fit a new 10k sportster why in the hell buy one when I can buy a Buell and have a real SPORTSTER. This is what bugs me! (Message edited by mmmi_grad on September 28, 2005) | ||
| Kevyn |
Different people buy different bikes...XB's have no appeal to folks intent on buying a Sporty--even the Roadster. Now that the Sportster has the rubber isolated motor, it's more popular than ever and HD is marketing the 883's with all the accessories an entry level buyer could want. Dealers are selling the new Dyna's...try to find a stock Dyna anywhere near MSRP if you can find a stock Dyna. That turned me off immediately. I just watched a buyer shell out 21K for a 35th Anniversary Super Glide...the price for an Ultra or Road King! Personally, I'm fascinated by the VRSC Street Rod. Racing technology, nicely refined but with an edgy HD industrial quality. If it just didn't weigh 600+ lbs. Reminds me of an S2...can't wait to put it on the road for a nice long ride. | ||
| Chainsaw |
The HD dealers near me have the bikes at MSRP. I've never seen a Road King on the floor priced at 21k. HD's are expensive, but no other MC (to my knowledge) has a resale value even close to them. | ||
| Daves |
We sell all our HD at MSRP I have a black Street Rod I could make you a sweet deal on | ||
| Bomber |
WEll, if Harley prices are not realistic, they wouldn't move off the floor the good news is, there's no statue that requires one to by one, so you're safe, I'm thinkin | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
The market has been softening. The dealer I sold at until recently was firm on MSRP + tax, tag, title, prep, freight, and either a $500 or $1000 accessory allowance. All non-negotiable. In May, we started hanging rebates on most models, $500 on B.Twin, $300 on Sportys, and $600 on left over Buells. In addition, he was "discounting" V-Rods by selling them for $16,000 OTD. His "discount" for specials, i.e. Screamin' Eagles and other limited editions was waving the accessory allowance. I believe there will be more to come. Two things have changed from when I was in the business in the "good ol days" to now. The first is the proliferation of more dealerships, and the second is H-D pumping out more bikes. In '05, H-D "cut" production by 10,000 bikes because dealers were sitting on many more bikes than they ever had to deal with before. H-D's stated goal has been to get to 400,000 units a year by '07 (correct me if I'm wrong Dave S) so dealers allocations went up, while in many markets, the geographical pie was being cut up into smaller pieces. Here in the East (Eastern N.C.), From Raleigh to the coast there's only about 2,000,000 people yet the number of dealers has grown exponentially. Now some of that growth has come by way of dealers building more stores, the dealer I was selling for now has 3, and is planning a 4th, and most of the competition except for 3 dealers, have done the same. Dealers are trying to hold the line on prices here somewhat because of all of this expansion, but with the glut of bikes, pressures on the market such as rising energy costs, and stagflation that many areas are beginning to see again, I think dealers are going to be under greater pressure to move inventory which means more discounting. Another pressure for dealers is H-D's constant insistence on expanding dealer facilities and H-D's policy of courting potential owners with automotive dealer backgrounds. Having more "car dealer" types in the business is going to put pressure on all dealers to move toward volume marketing, how car dealers operate and that's not really a good thing IMO. The car business has a bad reputation for a reason, and it's deserved. I don't see it as a positive. The motor company's insistence on expanding retail facilities every 5 years has been putting a lot of pressure on dealers to stay in good standing with H-D and it costs a lot of money. |
