| Author | Message | ||
     Koz5150 |
For those of you who remember, I started a thread about a month ago called "Help my bike won't start!". The problem was that mike bike seemed to not have the power to engage the starter. I started with the obvious and changed the 4 year old battery. Less then 3 weeks later the problem showed up again. I got tons of advice from Badwebbers like yourself on different things to look for. I bought an electrical tester from Ace (the place with the helpfull hardware man) and started checking things out. StatorUnfortunately I was stumped. Then the problem just went away? Well a week later it showed up again (which was actually last night). This morning I pulled out my handy dandy service manual and started performing every starter test I could. I limited it down to the starter solinoid. Then the strangest thing happened, I saw smoke coming from the front of the bike! Could it be a wire rubbed up front? The test I performed on the wire from the switch to the solinoid was good? I hit the starter button again and saw smoke coming from my CLUTCH CABLE??? What the F&%*??? I grabbed my clutch cable and it was warm. So I pulled my derby cover and found the culprit of over a month's worth of headaches!  Turns out this little bugger, which did help my wrist, caused my clutch cable to rub the primary case. This in turn caused the solinoid to ground out. I disconected the clutch from the clutch handle (ungrounding it) and the bike fired right up! It took two years for this thing to hurt my bike, but it was succesfull. So, if you are thinking about buying this piece beware, it will eventually leave you stranded. Now to the money part. By the advice of badwebbers on how to test things I did not run out and buy a stator (or spend the time to replace it), a voltage regulator, or a starter. I did buy a new battery (my own choice) and multi-testor which the battery was 4 years old and I never mind getting new tools. So thanks to all who helped. P.S. DaveS, I will still be in Thursday to pick up a new clutch cable. | ||
| Koz5150 |
P.S.S. I will post the info in the Knowledge Vault for future reference of why not to buy the Sportster & Buell 1994-2005 Easy Pull Clutch from Ebay | ||
| Firemanjim |
Koz,so why would this ground out anything?You need to look into why any power would go through this device.Check your engine and battery ground connections. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yikes! No wonder we did not diagnose that one correctly... Thats a stumper for sure. Call up click and clack for "stump the chumps". I can't imagine why that would be a current path though. Something in handlebar switch assemblies? It makes no sense... | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Reep, That's what I was thinking too. Koz, does your M2 have a clutch interlock switch, like the Blast, that causes the bike to not start unless the clutch is pulled in? IIRC, you said you disconected it. There shouldn't be any current running thru that clutch cable. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
The M2's have a clutch interlock. Koz definately has something elso going on here. The clutch actuator has NOTHING to so with the starter or starter circuit. Check your ground strap at the rear of the bike. It goes between the frame and the swing arm block if memory serves. | ||
| Sparky |
Your profile indicates extensive custom wiring for 80+ LED lights and an aluminum dash? If so, this is just a hunch: Is there any type of control of this wiring on the handlebars? If yes, I would bet that there is some kind of miswire that is sending battery + current through the clutch cable. Actually the aluminum dash could also have a miswired positive ground which could be the source of the problem with shorting through the clutch cable. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Koz, do you have a picture on where it was happening on the bike? | ||
| Tramp |
reep said: "Yikes! No wonder we did not diagnose that one correctly... Thats a stumper for sure. Call up click and clack for "stump the chumps"." Whaddya mean "we", paleface? I recall telling the poor guy to ignore all the online scuttlebut and the "experts" who tell him what's wrong without diagnosing it first. Oh, yeah- I believe I suggested he use a multimeter and do a short-test. hmmmm....  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Yes. Your clutch cable should be at the same potential as the engine cases and frame. Something isn't right here. Was it chafing in there against the stator wires or something? | ||
| 1313 |
I've never seen a clutch cable carrying current, but I have seen a clutch cable spewing oil out by the hand controls. And it was, indeed, interesting. 1313 | ||
| Newfie_buell |
I am also trying to figure out why this is happening as well. There is something else grounding out here. Remember that the engine/swingarm assembly should be totally isolated from the frame assembly by the rubber isolators with the exception of the ground strap and possible heim joints. Something else is giving power through the handlebars-clutch cable going to ground on the engine case. When you removed the clutch safety switch up on the handlebar what did you do with the wiring? Maybe that is after going to ground on the bar somewhere!!!! | ||
| Koz5150 |
I am going to take a look at the electronics on the left side of the handle bar tomorrow morning just to double check. All I know is that as soon as I moved the clutch cable the bike started right up? I will do some more investigating tomorrow, but for now I am happy the bike is running. | ||
| Jackbequick |
And on the other issue of something in the clutch rubbing on the primary cover, you might take a look at the orientation on the clutch cable coupling. I don't think that the coupling can rub on the primary cover unless it is installed facing the wrong way. And it is easy enough to do that. Jack | ||
| Grndskpr |
I've never seen a clutch cable carrying current Consider this, it may be that the stator has had its wire cut by the plate that holds the wires from hitting the rotor, now its not a bad cut yet, more of an slight cut, plastic only, so as the engine gets warm, and more oil splashes around, and the vibes go up, it grounds against that plate, current is now looking for a ground, and maybe the grounding strap isnt tight, its going to look for the easy way out It seems odd, but it could happen I would advise testing the stator directly, and see what it puts out, also consider an ohms test, tested cold and hot, i think you will find you stator is bad, not the easy pull Just a thought R | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
As Roger said,either you've got a ground problem that is feeding back thru the clutch cable or the cable has been contacting a current source somewhere is acting as a ground path. I've seen cars that have cooked the choke cable when starting because the earth strap to the engine was shot. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I tested the stator and it was well with the factory spec. I will be riding 200 miles tomorrow and 300 on Saturday. We will see what happens I guess... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Did you check the engine ground strap? | ||
| Grndskpr |
I tested the stator and it was well with the factory spec Can i please ask, HOW you tested the stator Just wondering thasnk R | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Tramp, with all due respect, Grndskpr just asked HOW he tested it, not to test it again. I dont see anyone telling him to check and recheck one component. | ||
| Tramp |
yeah, yeah, MY stupid. wasn't aimed strictly at grndskpr, whose moto-intel I've always respected on these boards.... some component failures become nearly 'stylish' with enthusiasts, it seems... (Message edited by tramp on September 15, 2005) | ||
| CJXB |
...just at the concept of checking and rechecking one component ad nauseum.... Tramp, with all due respect you've more or less posted this similar message repeatedly regarding this same theme !?? Don't simply replace parts, "check" each component in the proper sequence, and move on until you find the problem etc. etc., even I get it and I have very little mechanical knowledge !! Like Mackay said, grnsdkpr wasn't telling Koz to re-check the stator, I know these guys and they are all quite intelligent and capable, trust me they get what you're saying !! Relax !!  | ||
| Tramp |
good point, I'll delete it in the name of bandwitdh savings as well as in the name of not-coming-off-like-a-senile-redundancy-peddler  .... | ||
| Tramp |
whew! all done- now i gots ta get outta here and go and go wrench on a '78 cb 750K for a friend. ...the horror.....the horror..... | ||
| Grndskpr |
Tramp, with all due respect, Grndskpr just asked HOW he tested it Guess i missed something, that darn work gets in the way Just as an FYI, the reason i ask HOW, is becasue as a rule there are 2 ways to test a stator, and several versions of those 2 tests For example, when my stator went bad it seemed OK doing an ohms test with the bike off, even when it was running it gave me some voltage, then as it heated up, voltage would drop off, and ohms would go up This all happened Miles from home, at a battletax event, and nice Buell person(works for them) took the time to show me the different versions of the test, Hals was nice enuff to let us use the meter and charge the battery So while some tests may show it seems good, depending on how or in what heat range the test are conducted, may or may not make the difference between a correct reading and an incorrect reading, that little plate, and those little wires dont always make contact, and heat and vibes could make the difference again just a thought R | ||
| Grndskpr |
I just thought of one other thing, while i was typing that, if i am not mistaken, i belive that the voltage regulator is grounded via a wire or the case of the vr regulator, maybe the vr needs to be removed and the mounting points cleaned, to make sure its making a correct ground/contact with the frame, again a free and simple check you should be able to do in an hour or so, maybe corrosion is the problem R | ||
| Reepicheep |
You are stirring a deep memory R... When we were upgrading the tubers to the new Y mounts, which relocated the VR, there were some problems that could be solved by good cleaning of the contact points where it bolted down, and I even ran an extra ground strap. Can't remember what the symptoms of the problem it created were, but I remember going out of my way to avoid it and adding an extra ground strap... | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Bill, If I remember correctly the VR's were frying due to bad grounding. Another method to insure good grounding was to install an outside star washer under each mounting pad. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
That still don't answer why there was current going back through the clutch cable. I'm with Roger on the stator, my stator was sometimes working and other times not prior to absolute breakdown. That damm little metal plate!!!!!  | ||
| Dave |
Electrons are lazy bastards... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=513683#POST 513683 DAve | ||
| Fullpower |
for those running tubers,(or pre-rubber mount sportsters) on inspection of the voltage regulator a drilled hole on the backside is visible, right next to a dime size cutout. the hole can be tapped (10-32) and a 12 guage ground lead can easily be installed, to run to the front head mounting bolt. I have done this on each voltage regulator i have replaced, and have not had one so equipped burn out a regulator. |
