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M1combat
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html

A VERY interesting read if you ask me...

"Now this next point is so obvious, so simple and so self-evident that there is no way the deep thinkers of the far left will possibly be able to see it.

Let’s not talk about Black and White tribes… I know too many pathetic, hateful, racists and more decent, capable and kind people of both colors for that to make any sense at all. Do you not? Do you not know corrupt, ignorant, violent people, both black and white, to cure you of this elementary idiocy? Have you not met and talked and laughed with people who were funny, decent, upright, honest and honorable of every shade so that the very idea of racial politics should just seem like a desperate and divisive and just plain evil tactic to hold power?

If such a thing is not self-evident to you, please get off my property. Right now. I should tell you I own a gun and I know how to use it. I assure you that the pleasure I would take in shooting you would be temporary, minimal, and deeply regretted later.

Now, for the rest of you, let’s get past Republican and Democrat, Red and Blue, too. Let’s talk about these two Tribes: Pink, the color of bunny ears, and Grey, the color of a mechanical pencil lead. "
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Dbird29
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 02:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Political BS

Nuke the post.

Unless it was referring to the wire color code for an electric vest.
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M1combat
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It's not really political BS...

Notice the last line from the quote. The line between pink or grey is not parallel to the line between right and left. The article seemed (to me anyway) to sum up the differences between a few different types of people quite nicely whether they are right or left wing didn't seem to be of major concern. It was more about people who run into a burning building vs. people who run out of a burning building. I don't believe that he ever said that "Republicans run in to save people and the wimpy Democrats run out screaming".

Makes sense to me anyway...
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Scitz
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

No matter what "tribe" you want to be with after a few days without food and water, watching people die next you, smelling human waste and rotting bodies can cause any one to become primal, psychotic, and violent. The problem in the Gulf was that help should have been showing up the next day. Look at the preparations and help that came after Hurricane Charlie hit Florida last year and what has happened with planning in the Gulf this year. It shouldn't have taken 5 day for federal assistance to reach the Gulf. Regardless of politics this was a major screw up. Makes you wonder if we could handle a terrorist attack if we can't even help people from a natural disaster we knew was coming. I think this is more of a class problem, poor vs. rich, than race.
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Tramp
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I thought he was referring to either gay vs. straight or infant vs. elderly
....or maybe amerind vs. Dawn Of The Dead (reg. tm) zombie
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M1combat
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Maybe you didn't read the article... He specifically said that he didn't think it was about race.

He also was primarily talking about the local/state/federal government intervention.
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Dbird29
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

or helpful vs. hurtful
or Ginger vs. Mary Ann
or Buell Haters© vs. Kool Aid

It just seems like another politics post and it has been nice to read Badweb without the heated non-motorcycle arguments.

my $.02
DBird

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Skeeter_xb
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I think the local and state gov't should be responsible for the short term care of it's citizens following disasters, then the feds can come in and sustain it. I saw lots of footage of flooded buses that never left the city. Why weren't those people on the buses and out of the city? Probably 50-60% didn't want to leave and had the opportunity. If the ones that could have left, did. The evacuation would have taken 1/2 the time.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 08:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

How many people in the superdome knew how to dig a slit trench to void wastes in, outside? Also why you would want to, instead of wizzing on the floor where you might have to sleep?
hmmm? I learned how & why in the Boy Scouts.

Sending people to centralized locations to await rescue is a smart idea. Making sure there is potable water & sanitation for at least the duration of the expected emergency is critical. Someone screwed the pooch, big.

It's been known for thousands of years, if you tell everyone in a city to leave, many won't. Volcano, storm, barbarians at the gates, no difference. Some stay to rescue & heal, others to loot & rape.

In New Orleans some few people kept the sheepdogs from doing their thing. Those people should be put in a refugee camp with "It's my fault" tattoo'd on their foreheads. IMHO

Bless the Sheepdogs. Good article.
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Charlieboy6649
Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 02:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Don't worry M1. I got your back for sure.

As if we (States) havn't lost enough to the Federal govt. already! AND I WORK FOR THEM! (USMC)

It's no one's fault but the Louisiana Govt. They should have been prepared and should be ashamed of themselves for fingerpointing as their people lay dying in the streets! Too many would have the Feds take over every time. How much more freedom shall we lose???

Remember, this is coming from someone who fights for freedoms he does not fully enjoy.

Maybe I'm just too Goddamn grey myself, but I tire of America's sheep!!!!!!!!!
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Tramp
Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 09:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

what's your MOS, c-boy?
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M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Chuck : ).

I was sure there would be an outcry for my head due to my "racism" by those that didn't read or understand the article...

And yeah... I DO wish I'd been on one of those planes.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"after a few days without food and water, watching people die next you, smelling human waste and rotting bodies can cause any one to become primal, psychotic, and violent."

Bullshit! The vast vast majority of folks resist well such despicable behavior. Most people actually rise to the occassion. Maybe you missed the story about how the good folks trapped in the New Orleans convention center joined forces and confronted and ejected a gang of armed thugs.

To those seeking to blame folks for the disaster... that is simply wrong, especially at this point. In any disaster, we all do the best we can. People will die, the weak, the old, the helpless, the foolish, the stubborn, the unlucky. That is the way it is, period. It is why we call it a "disaster." It sucks, bigtime. Devolving into sniping and finger-pointing and blaming helps NOTHING and NO ONE.

Only a fool trusts that the beureaucracy known as the federal government will come to the rescue as a first responder. The survival and salvation of those at risk in a natural disaster is contingent upon the following heirarchy of responsibility...

1. Oneself
2. One's family, friends and neighbors
3. Dumb luck
4. One's local/municipal/county-parish government
5. One's state government
6. Volunteers and charities
7. The federal government

That's how I see it anyway. Pretty sure I'm pretty close to having it right.

Why were the national guard troops on site so quickly in previous disasters like in Florida? First, that was no where near comparable to the unprecedented widespread 90,000 sq mile disaster and citywide flooding that Katrina wrought, not even close, not anything even comparable. Second, because the governor of Florida arranged/planned for his state's national guard deployment.

How long does it take to call-up, provision, organize and deploy a national guard company? Anyone? Do you imagine they are sitting in their trucks, full of provisions and equipment waiting to go?

Had it not been for the flooding of N.O., we would have not seen anywhere near the horrendous human tragedy scenario that we did. The flooding, the real major overwhelming disaster and human tragedy issue for N.O. occured on Tuesday 8/30. Pretty sure the US Military Helicopters and the Texas National Guard convoy rolled through downtown N.O. on Thursday 9/1. Two days response time?

There's a community in Texas near Caddo Lake that endures the risk of serious flooding, like to the tune of 10 feet above ground level or more. Lots of folks have their homes up on stilts. Some don't. The ones that don't suffer the consequences.

Get all the pumps back online and pumping at 100%; get the city dried out, the roads leared; get potable water delivery back online; get communications back online; get power back online; clean up; rebuild; reasses the city's flood protection system. Reasses and revise the city's disaster response plan. Have electric generators and provisions (water mainly) installed/maintained on site in the Superdome, the convention center, etc. We are talking about an incredibly minimal investement by the city that would have gone a long, long way to avoiding much of the suffering and human tragedy endured and being endured still in N.O.

Conduct thorough periodic (once every five years?) flood drills to test, verify, and exercise the city's emergency plans/resources; make sure the busses run and that they get folks in the low-lying areas to shelter; make sure the shelters are adequately outfitted, and provisioned and that their generators work and come online as needed.

Keep a few satellite phones around town and with the police force and other first responders.

This ain't rocket science. We just need to be a little proactive is all.

Funny how none of the blame-first crowd was calling for action before the tragedy became evident.

And frankly, at this point, I'm not sure if or how many people would have been rescued/saved had a better first response been realized. Lots would have avoided uncomfortable, nasty, horrendous conditions for sure. Not sure how many lives would have been saved though. Until I know that, I'll reserve condemnation of the first responders and those responsible for planning and orchestrating their efforts.
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Bomber
Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

after watching the news on Katrina and her aftermath, and hearing the cries for better reponses, I'm reminded of the attitude toward a peacetime military (whatever peacetime might mean today)

it might be true that we should have been better prepared (state or federal level, I'll leave to others to wrok out) -- it might even be that we should have conexes loaded and ready to go to help ease the troubles of any major population center in the event of a disaster, and the folks required to do the work standing by playing pinochel, ready to stand in the door

But, after a year without said disaster, some wag or another would point to this awful waste of resources, manpower, and money, and the whole idea would be scrapped --

could the country have done better? you bet. SHould it? mebbe. should anyone be calling for anyone's head? not a chance
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Mikej
Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Just curious, but is a "mandatory" evacuation the functional equivalent of martial law? It would appear that way, just that nobody has used those words officially just yet.

In some jurisdictions the government can not force someone to evacuate, a gentleman by the name of Harry Truman and the Mt. Saint Helens eruption comes to mind.
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M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 03:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Those exact words have indeed been said. NO is in a state of martial law right now. Literally and officially.

(Message edited by m1combat on September 07, 2005)
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Charlieboy6649
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 01:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm 7051 "Fireman"...
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Blake
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Mike,
No it is not the same.
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