| Author | Message | ||
     Dagwood |
"the legal language in South Africa is Afrikaans" http://www.cyberserv.co.za/users/~jako/lang/ Actually buelluk, there are 11 official and 6 unofficial languages in South Africa. I don't even know what a "legal" language is. | ||
| Slaughter |
Just got this here at work (showing an ALARMING lack of compassion here) "If you do settle in America and bear children, don't think we should accept them as Citizens. After all, if the cat had kittens in the oven, we wouldn't call 'em biscuits." | ||
| Tramp |
thanks monorad. i'm proud to live here in algonquin country, in the land of the "minsis" (wolf) tribe of the lenni lenape (also known as mohicans/mahicans/delaware). our natives did Ok against the huron and iroqouis, but eventually the sheer numbers pouring down from the 'dacks overpowered 'em, and the lenni lenape are but a memory, now. the jackson whites like to call themselves lenape, but their own native bloodlines hail from some of the cherokees who branched off the "trail of tears" and settled in the Ramapo(ramapough) mountains on the NY/NJ border and took up with escaped slaves and homesteading hessian soldiers. another positive thing about the french is their lifestyle, in regards to health...MOST adult french are smokers (i don't smoke and don't condone it, but that's not the point) and drinkers, yet their incidence of lung cancer (which is typically caused by smoking) and oral cancer (which is typically caused by smoking and drinking, esp. in concert with one another) is FAR lower than that of we americans', yet we consume far less tobacco and alcohol per capita, than they do. why? they don't live on FAST FOOD, and they eat fresh stuff ravenously. they still have nice old-fashioned butcher shops and wonderful markets right in the center of paris. try horsemeat..it rocks. then there's the much-ballyhooed "french paradox" of their infamous appetite for red meat and cheese, yet there is SO little obesity and SO few heart ailments in france. why? red wine consumption. the flavenoids, as we've all heard, help keep bad cholesterol from accumulating in the arteries. say whatcha want, but them french folks do OK. love their weeeeemmeeeenz! | ||
| M1combat |
What I've said doesn't stem from a lack of compassion by any means. Quite the opposite. It's an interest in seing every person rise above their current station and doing well for themselves. The language spoken in America is English. One of the BEST steps that one can take to do well in this country is to learn English. It opens so many doors that it's really the best thing to do. After reading your post again though... Maybe you were refering to your quote as exhibiting an alarming lack of passion? Just for the record... I'll accept pretty close to anyone as a citizen. Just so long as they pay their taxes like I do and don't take advantage of our welfare and other social programs. I don't mind that they use them like they are intended, but don't abuse them. Use them as a stepping stone. | ||
| Slaughter |
I was admitting that I HAVE an alarming lack of compassion! Here in the People's Republic of California - in LA County, something like 60+% of all births are to illegals... PRESTO - instant citizens by law. | ||
| Panic |
Re: "the spaniards were here in the 15th century at the latest, and there is/was NO recorded english settlement or exploration of the americas prior to that epoch" They made the 15th century by 8 years. Norse spoken here in 900 AD. | ||
| M1combat |
LOL  , sorry for the confusion Slaughter . | ||
| M1combat |
You want to see an alarming lack of compassion??? If the natives wanted this land so bad they should have won the war. Start a new one if you'd like... If not, quitcherbitchin'. I really AM sorry that your ancestors lost THEIR land in a war (a dirty war too from what I know). I didn't steal their land. No one alive today did. It was THEIRS. Not YOURS. Civilizations come and go. So will the United States. That's the way it is. Then we have people like Dagwood who dig up the remains and say "Cool... these people were unique... take a look at this .". No offence intended what so ever Dagwood . That's what's so great about America though... I can say how I feel, anyone else can say how they feel. Life goes on. We can't change history any more today than we could yesterday. | ||
| Buelluk |
Just to fuel the fire ( blatant troll ) ..any hands up for slavery reparations !- after all they are tax deductible ! (Message edited by buelluk on August 18, 2005) | ||
| Light_keeper |
They made the 15th century by 8 years. Norse spoken here in 900 AD. and possibily the celts before that. | ||
| Dagwood |
"If the natives wanted this land so bad they should have won the war." Please tell me that you're kidding, Don. 50 cal. mountain howitzers vs. bows and arrows is not a war, it's genocide. Say the same thing in reference to the Jews and you're a Nazi. By the way, I am a conservation archaeologist. I don't dig stuff up and say "Cool... these people were unique... take a look at this". I do my best to prevent Wal-Mart, McDonalds, and other corporate criminal institutions from indiscriminately building on top of burial grounds, ancestral places of worship, villages, and other traditional cultural properties. | ||
| Dagwood |
Sorry. No Norse, no celts, nobody. PaleoIndian settlement is dated absolutely (ie. radiocarbon analysis) to at least 12,000 years before present. The paleoindian site at the southern tip of Chile known as Monteverde has yielded a single date of 28,000 years BP. Although that date is uncorroborated, it is the oldest date of human occupation in the western hemisphere. | ||
| Mikej |
Small pox and other disease killed more folks than the .50 cal's did. Nice job you have there Dan, I'm a bit envious. | ||
| Mikej |
Dan, What's the latest findings of the find in the Great Lakes region, thought it pre-dated that (just found a year or three ago) and is somewhat under dispute. Only got a snippet of info about it at a seminar here last year. | ||
| M1combat |
And I thank you for that... It's a good cause. I was only partially kidding with that... My main point was that cultures/civilizations come and go. The wheel of time, the circle of life, the way the cookie crumbles and all that. •••• happens so to speak. There's nothing that I could have done to prevent it. MY ancestors were not part of that "genocide". War is an ugly thing for sure. It's still war though. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=genocide I don't believe that the war that took place between the settlers of the "new" world and the natives of the "new" world was genocide. It's unfortunate, but the natives were "in the way". They chose to not move (I don't blame them at all, I would have done the same). It was a war. War is an ugly thing. If they had chosen to move, I don't think they would have been pursued to the ends of the earth in an effort to "cleans" their genes from the planet. That wasn't the issue. It was a war for land and riches. Hitler had an entirely different agenda. | ||
| M1combat |
I certainly won't say that "whiteys were here first"... Not at all. Isn't carbon dating an imperfect science though? Doesn't the result have a lot to do with the tested items surroundings? In any case, I think it's a useless debate. We're all humans. We're all brothers and sisters. There are very few reasons to make war against each other. Just for the record... taking land and riches from fellow humans is NOT one of the worthy ones. | ||
| Dagwood |
Were you aware that Columbus and his men knowingly provided the natives with smallpox infested trade blankets. To my knowledge that is the first documented instance of germ warfare. I have not heard of any find in the Great Lakes region that rivals the dates mentioned above. It is, of course a possibility. Archaeology is not as glamorous as one might think. No Indiana Jones-esque treasure hunting, no bull whips, and worst of all...no Lara Croft. *no Don, there is no such thing as a perfect science. (Message edited by dagwood on August 18, 2005) | ||
| Mikej |
I'll have to dig into the current research when I'm back on campus next Spring. | ||
| Tramp |
"Were you aware that Columbus and his men knowingly provided the natives with smallpox infested trade blankets. To my knowledge that is the first documented instance of germ warfare. " mixing up your conquerors, there, mr. bumstead. it was in the 19th century that smallpox was intentionally transmitted by the US army. all colombus was known to bring to the new world, disease-wise, was gonorrhea. when oanic says: "They made the 15th century by 8 years. Norse spoken here in 900 AD." he's right about the norse, and celtic ogam dating to that epoch is being analyzed, as well. panic, you're referring to colombus' crew. there're theories regarding even spanish settlers (lost, of course) prior to that century, along with phoenicians. and, dags- when you say: "Sorry. No Norse, no celts, nobody." that's tantamount to what the rest of the world said about the planet being flat, etc., prior to being proven otherwise. there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. and, as to monte verde, it's dated at 33K BP. treu, there are no absolutley corroborated sites prior to 15K BP, but , of course, to have reached S.America by 33K BP, migrants had to have come through here at around 40-45K BP, obviously, unless you believe they took an airbus, and yet we have no evidence of THEM... which, of course, begs the question, why no signs of settlement or even passage of anyone at all, and , then, of course, if we don't have evidence of their passage, absence of evidence of settlement/passage certainly doesn't negate the probability of their existence here, as well, if not first. dude- i had to study this sh*t back in the day... (Message edited by tramp on August 18, 2005) | ||
| Dagwood |
Well I CHOSE to study it...for 6 years as a matter of fact. Not to pull rank, but you don't know •••• about history. NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE of Norse or Celt settlement, period. Show me some evidence...it doesn't exist. My statement is based on evidence...I'm a scientist. You might want to consider the possibility of migration across the oceans. The Bering theory is but one explanation. Monte Verde. Again, 28K BP. I've got the journal, slick. | ||
| Light_keeper |
Who was the kenniwick man found in the state of washington along the banks of the columbia? how old was he and they have found evidence he was not of the same genitic group as those who crossed the land bridge in Alaska. Anything is possible who knows maybe there is a whole history about the world that we have lost. How did tobaco and maze get to the egyptians? Who was sailing the ships with the large white wings the Incas told the spanish about. none of us really knows who was here first. New discoveries are being made all the time. We dont really know how long modern man has been around. Every time someone makes the statement " I have found absolute evidence." Someone comes up with positive proof to the contrary. | ||
| Blake |
"Wal-Mart, McDonalds, and other corporate criminal institutions" Maybe the term "heavy-handed" would be more accurate.  Pretty sure the story about Columbus or any white man perpetrating germ warfare upon native Americans is a myth. | ||
| M1combat |
"unless you believe they took an airbus, and yet we have no evidence of THEM... " My father has what seems to be a petrified jeep piston that he picked up in the aleutian chain. (I can't tell you which island by virtue of the fact that he couldn't tell me). Yes... Petrified... | ||
| Light_keeper |
Having spent time out among the Aleutian Islands every thing gets petrified out there. One night in Dutch Harbor I was so petified to this day I'm not sure how I made it back to the ship. | ||
| Dagwood |
Kennewick Man or "the Ancient One" was analyzed earlier this month after a lengthly court battle between northwest tribes and a group of researchers. Under the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (1990) only human remains and associated funerary objects that are considered and determined to be culturally affiliated with a modern tribe are covered. Kennewick Man could not be determined affiliated without conducting analysis of his genetic make-up (which includes destructive analysis of bone matter) which the tribes were against. The 9th Curcuit ruled that the scientists could examine the remains. The report won't be available for a few month at the earliest, but I would be willing to speculate that he is indeed Native American. "Pretty sure the story about Columbus or any white man perpetrating germ warfare upon native Americans is a myth." MUST....KEEP....MOUTH....SHUT....ARGGGG  | ||
| Mikej |
careful, Band-Aids don't stick to tongues too well.  ps, I hadn't heard about the Kennewick decision, thanks for the update. (Message edited by mikej on August 18, 2005) | ||
| Tramp |
dagwood said (to me, specifically) : "Well I CHOSE to study it...for 6 years as a matter of fact. Not to pull rank, but you don't know •••• about history. NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE of Norse or Celt settlement, period. Show me some evidence...it doesn't exist. My statement is based on evidence...I'm a scientist. You might want to consider the possibility of migration across the oceans. The Bering theory is but one explanation. Monte Verde. Again, 28K BP. I've got the journal, slick" OK- dagwood- for starters, my name isn't slick. now, the "journal" you have...is it the same one that teold you that colombus gave smallpox infested blankets (to intentionally infect them)to the native americans he encountered? because that "journal" is worng. the smallpox-blanket fiasco occured nearly 400 years later, and it was the US army, not colombus. "the" journal? gosh. Does "The" journal also refer to Monte Verde as "monteverde", the way you did in the first post? I've been to the Andes (my first wife was Argentine) I've skiied Val De Las Lenas and Barrriloche, and believe me, it's Monte Verde. lemme know how "THE" journal spells it. So, we can theorize that in order for amerinds to have settled MONTE Verde by 33K BP (or 28, as dag is so passionately sure of), they had to ahve come through our neck of the woods during the early to mid 33 k BP. no trace of 'em exists, so... who's to say other men weren't here first? and, please, dagwood. oceanic paleoamerind explorers? not so fast, there, einstein. lemme know when you find another "the" journal, one that doesn't have Custer and Colombus in cahoots, OK?  hey- you made mistake. no bigs! we all do it now and then! I know i sure as he*l do. -"slick" | ||
| Light_keeper |
If it is not a myth then those of us who have both cultures in our ancestry can blame our selves for our past misfortunes. | ||
| Tramp |
kennewick man, by virtue of his skull shape, (i thought) was found to appear most like the ainu (natives of japan) funny to say he'll be found to be "native american"..what the he*l ELSE would we call him? he wasn't found in Istanbul, and he certainly predates everyone else we know of, here...what a bold statement, dagwood! | ||
| Mikej |
You're not to blame for the deeds of those before you, only for what you do here and now and the effects that has on the future. And "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". |
