| Author | Message | ||
     Southern Marine |
Gov. Bush criticizes NCAA ban on FSU's nickname Posted: Tuesday August 9, 2005 8:54PM; Updated: Tuesday August 9, 2005 8:54PM TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush criticized NCAA officials on Tuesday for their decision to penalize Florida State for using an American Indian nickname and symbols, saying they instead insulted the university and a proud Seminole Tribe of Florida. The NCAA's finding that the school's Seminoles nickname is "hostile and offensive," instead of honoring American Indians has the opposite effect, the governor said, because the tribe supports the school's use of its name. "I think it's offensive to native Americans ... the Seminole Indian tribe who support the traditions of FSU," Bush said on his way into a Cabinet meeting. "I think they insult those people by telling them, 'No, no, you're not smart enough to understand this. You should be feeling really horrible about this.' It's ridiculous." Meanwhile, attorney Barry Richard, who successfully led the legal challenge on behalf of Republican George W. Bush in the 2000 presidential recount in Florida, has agreed to represent the school in its case against the NCAA, Florida State President T.K. Wetherell said Wednesday. "We recognize this is an emotional issue in Florida, and in other parts of the country there are people who feel just as strongly being opposed," NCAA spokesman Bob Williams said Tuesday. "We believe this decision was made on sound ground legally though as I said before there is an appeal process in place." The school's board of trustees are scheduled to meet Wednesday in emergency session to discuss elements of its formal response to the NCAA. The university has until Feb. 1 to make a formal appeal to the NCAA executive committee. Florida State, Illinois and Utah are among 18 schools with an American Indian nickname or logo that will be prohibited by the NCAA from displaying them in postseason events, starting in February. The nicknames will not be allowed on team uniforms and mascots will not be allowed to perform at games, the NCAA announced Friday. Cheerleaders and band members will also be barred from using American Indians on their uniforms beginning in 2008. The costuming and rigging of the school's symbols, Chief Osceola and the Appaloosa horse, Renegade, are designed by the Seminole Indian Tribe of Florida. Bush said he fully agrees with Wetherell, who will sue the NCAA if their decision on the use of Seminoles is not rescinded. "How politically correct can we get?" Bush asked. "The folks that make these decisions need to get out more often." "If you have the Seminole Tribe and Gov. Bush on your side, how can you go wrong?" Florida State University Vice President Lee Hinkle said Wednesday. Bush said the NCAA must have better things to do that sit around worrying about the nicknames adopted by its member institutions. "You know what they ought to be worried about? The graduation rates of most college athletes," the second-term Florida governor said. "Maybe if they had some suggestions on that, that universities could apply and could implement, they could be doing a service to all of us." Williams noted that student-athletes, on the average, graduate at a higher rate than the average student. Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. | ||
| Dave |
It's all around ... NCAA won't hail the Chief ANd I'm offended by the characterization of this logo and will sue to have it changed!!  These people need to get real. DAve | ||
| Whodom |
Here's a great site that keeps up with this BS: http://www.tonguetied.us/ Entertaining reading. | ||
| Spinzealot |
Can the term "Politically Correct" be considered an oxi-moron like Military Intelligence and Jumbo Shrimp? | ||
| Tramp |
The whole 'native american' lobby is something which grows more tedious with every year. I didn't invade anything, and our 'native americans' came across the bering straits, themselves. just like i never had any slaves. i don't want to hear about it. let's ahve equal rights for all, and let those guys pay taxes, and let me open a casino. i think the period of grieving is long past. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I'm outraged that New York continues to use the name "Yankees". | ||
| Tramp |
those bastids.... and i take pittburgh's "pirates" monniker very seriously to heart. i would like that sobriquet stricken from their public image..... | ||
| Brucelee |
I am sure this is the most pressing issue that the NCAA has. It dwarfs such issues as steroids, faked grades, money under the table, phoney backgounds, 25 yrs old college freshman etc. Hmmm, they sound like, like, POLITICIANS!!!!!!!!!! (Message edited by brucelee on August 10, 2005) | ||
| Mikej |
"came across the bering straits, themselves" That is still under debate and exploration, the truth of which may never be wholly known. I'll say no more on this subject. If those with multiple PHD's can't decide then we'll not prove it here. (lurk mode back on) ps, how old is old, and who's to say the measurement is accurate. I say politics and ulterior motives are involved in discerning many so called "facts", argh. | ||
| Tramp |
exactly my point mikej!!!!!!! if it's ALL under debate, who's to say "Oh, WE are the natives!" not the amerinds, not the phoenicians, nor the celts (although they're the likely first draft pick for N. american settlement), nor the vikings, etc. it's all theory. let's all get over it. we are all americans. if we're going to say we don't belong because we don't have red skin, we may as well denounce christianity, being it's a mideastern religion that was forced upon our european (and, later, african) ancestors. same dynamic, an invasion. doesn't make it wrong | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Gov. Bush only has to look at Florida to see how politically correct his own state really is... After all, we changed the name of a fish (Jewfish to Goliath Goruper) so as not to offend.... | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
The next American, native or visiting, that calls me a Limey is going to get sued big time, I may be sour, but I don't have green skin, Earthman! People in Cleveland & Atlanta are going to be really pissed about this too. Are people in St Louis & Baltimore going to be sued by bird lovers? Are the fashion police going to have a go at Chicago & Boston? Where will it all end? Will all Indian motorcycles have to be scrapped? On the other side of the coin though, the Mexican Indians have a really good case against Pontiac, with the Aztek!  | ||
| Skyguy |
To many people with to little to do making up to many rules, trying to make themselves feel important. It will never end. I am sick of "trying not to offend". A Jewfish will always be a Jewfish as far as I am concerned, Phyisically challenged will always be handicapped and short will never be vertically challenged! | ||
| Jackbequick |
Well you ain't seen nothing yet! Wait until PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) wades in on the widespread hostile and offensive use of the names of animals. I for one will be glad to know that the University of Maine will no longer get away with belittling the black bear. Even the ones that exhibit such unendearing behaviors as defecating in the woods behind my home ripping down my bird feeders. And the U.C Santa Cruz Banana Slugs. For such a heart warming creature to be so publicly ridiculed is enough to bring tears to my eyes. My wife is so overcome with compassion for this darling animal that she grows a variety of succulent foodstuffs for them around our home under the guise of decorating out yard. You should see the tears of joy in her eyes when the light of dawn shows that her darlings have again enjoyed her recent plantings. Jack | ||
| Frausty12r |
So thats what PETA stands for.. all this time I thought it was People Eating Tasty Animals.. hmmm *ponder* Personally I'm tired of this BS, -lets find something to go to court on to make a name for ourselves as a "minority" regardless who the association is-. Everyone here, in the U.S. is an American. Like it or leave it. No ones making them stay here, and I'm sick of seeing our constitution which was 100's of yrs ahead of it's time being re-written, struck through, overwritten, flip-flopped, edited, whited out, covered up however one particular group sees fit to suit THEM. it was written for ANY PERSON who crosses our borders. Learn it, love it, learn to live WITH IT... or GET THE HELL OUT! And about the "nicknames" I know several native americans who love the fact their peoples name is on one of the best Schools in the South East. Also heard Native americans get a good tuition cost for going to FSU. (Could be rumor tho) /rant off. | ||
| Tramp |
jacbequick said: "I for one will be glad to know that the University of Maine will no longer get away with belittling the black bear. Even the ones that exhibit such unendearing behaviors as defecating in the woods behind my home ripping down my bird feeders. And the U.C Santa Cruz Banana Slugs. For such a heart warming creature to be so publicly ridiculed is enough to bring tears to my eyes. My wife is so overcome with compassion for this darling animal that she grows a variety of succulent foodstuffs for them around our home under the guise of decorating out yard. You should see the tears of joy in her eyes when the light of dawn shows that her darlings have again enjoyed her recent plantings. Jack"  | ||
| Panic |
Re: "That is still under debate and exploration" I'm sorry, I was unaware that any scientific evidence had been proposed to the contrary? IIRC the only questions not yet resolved are the exact point of origin (not transmission), the number of waves, and the ethnicity of the waves. Re: The "native americans"? They might be the "original americans", "oldest americans", or "1st americans", but they're definitely not native. There are no homo sapiens native to the Western hemisphere, all of us are immigrants from, and native only to Olduvai Gorge in Kenya. There is also rather strong archaelogical evidence to suggest that most of the current "indigenous peoples" (more accurate, but doesn't have that great "sound bite" quality) displaced (i.e., invaded, terrorized, then stole the land from) the previous invaders from Siberia, who had displaced their predecessors, ad infinitum for the last 20 or 30,000 years. Some of the losers are extinct, both personally and culturally. I had rather hoped that the shop-worn Roussavian myth of "the noble savage" would die a natural death, but it appears I was a bit premature. There are no clean hands among cultural or ethnic groups, some are just more successful than others. Are the lesser villains to have innocence conferred upon them for their failures? | ||
| Tramp |
actually, the olduvai gorge site is the earliest known site. i definitely dig your post on this. you said exactly what i wanted to, with splendid concision. actually, though- there is a grwoing body of eveidence pointing to pre-amerind celtic settlement of the americas, and heyerdahl's theories have reagained considerable juice, once again, what with early descriptions of nordic-appearing algonquins and red-haired/fair-skinned titcacans. easter island..... an endsite of early celtic tribes? | ||
| 1313 |
 'Nuf said! 1313 | ||
| Mikej |
There has been "evidence" uncovered to show the possibility of earlier existence, but it's an uphill battle to dispute the mindset of academia. I know nothing, I just read and listen and observe. I do know that lots of stuff has happened and not all is as it once was and that sometimes stuff that happens displaces the evidential proof of what once happened at a prior time or place. I do have some issues with the whole migration theories, but not having lived during those times I'll withhold stating my opinions on the subject since I've always found it very difficult to argue or debate or discuss the issue with those who were there. There is nothing new, there is only the status quo, until one is long dead gone then others may state "gee he was right afterall" (note: this is not about me, just those who have gone before me, as I said I know nothing and do not have the credentials to qualify for the debate tables). 'scuse me now whilst I sidestep out the sidedoor, 'sides I'm working on other stuff now since the path of life redirected itself. And by the way there have been new dig recoveries in the last 18 months or so and datings made that drastically will change the game, once the StatusQuo migrates and once a few people pass on to somehow lend credence to their findings. I be done with this here thread. bye ("poof" )  | ||
| Bomber |
some friends have a place near Mount Rushmore -- been in the family for a lil over 100 years (a mere blink of an eye, geologically speaking) -- bout 10 years ago, a tribe of, er, what the heck term should I use, folks what occupied the land earlier than that, yeah, that'll do, placed a claim against the land, stating it was on sacred (to them) ground, and they wanted it back . . . . I can see both sides of the argument, from a morale point of view -- the legal beagels are still duking it out -- howsomeever, things have certainly changed -- for what I beleive is the first time in herstory, history, theirstory, after a war, the winners are not simply saying, "ya lost, get over yourself" whether this is a good thing, a bad thing, or just a thing, depends, of course, on what side of the battlefield you or your ancestors found yourself on -- | ||
| Light_keeper |
Do you suppose I could go to Scotland and demand some land and reparations? A couple of generations ago the family left. Maybe they were forced out. Hummmm maybe I'm on to something here. I think I will have another Lobster and think about it. | ||
| Slaughter |
I propose that ALL THINGS be henceforth given alpha-numeric designations pulled from a random-number generator. Names are inherently sexist but say - A13RV8 - gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. ALTHOUGH - I have heard it said that even numbers are feminine while odd numbers are considered masculine. ... I guess we're screwed... | ||
| Light_keeper |
so what would a 0 be?? | ||
| Sparropie |
This site is just as uptight. Try saying •••• or ••••• or even ••••••• ••••. sooner, Galen | ||
| M1combat |
"... I guess we're screwed..." Oddly enough... | ||
| Buellysses |
Though I can lay claim membership to no significant social minority , except perhaps as a social liberal on this forum, I'm curious to know if any respondants in this thread are themselves members of the minority(ies) in question? I can only try to imagine how one would feel if one's own tribal or cultural identity was taken and used by an unaffiliated institution without any consideration given to the keepers of that identity. Current discussions about multiculturalism aside, how difficult do you think it is to preserve a sense of unique cultural identity in today's America? That said, if the Seminole Tribe likes the idea, then more power to them, though that doesn't invalidate grievances of other tribes. Also, as a proud citizen of the United States, I am offended by the notion that "this is the way it is here in America, if you don't like it, then get the hell out!" Dynamism is the heart and soul of America, and the idea that dissenters are somehow less American is in itself very unAmerican. Riding is so much more fun than politics, let's go do that! (Message edited by buellysses on August 15, 2005) | ||
| M1combat |
So you actually prefer the fact that signs need to be posted in English/Spanish and some places Hmong? I'm all for the people that want to come to America. Really, I am... But they should learn English and use it daily. I'm all for people coming over here to participate in the American dream... But pay your F'ING TAXES AND STOP USING FREE HEALTH CARE THAT I THEN HAVE TO PAY FOR! I pay nearly $700 a month in taxes... I ALSO pay for health care. I could care less if someone wants to listen to Mexican/Arabic/rap/whatever kind of music while rollin' along with those dingle berry things in their car and a plush velvet interior... Heck, I even like those cars... But PAY YOUR FREAKIN' TAXES SO I DON'T HAVE TO, AND SPEAK ENGLISH. If you'd like to use your native language in your home and teach it to your kids so it's not forgotten do so. By all means please do. But learn English so that you can read the signs that we have. Posting signs that are in Spanish is enabling. What does enabling do in this case? It keeps the people who only know spanish down... It doesn't help them. It gives them a fish when what they need is to be taught HOW TO FISH. People can only excell in an environment in one of two ways... They either adapt to the environment, or they change the envoronment. The environment isn't going to change. They need to adapt so they can play the game on a level playing field. Posting signs and creating laws that requires businesses to hire people that don't speak english is close to the worst solution to the problem that there is. It FORCES the perpetuation of the low class. Why would the left want it that way? HMMMM? I'll bet it's not for the same reasons they espouse while campaigning for their office of choice... I really don't mean to pick on anyone and the language issue is only one of many. If you come to America... Be American. When in Rome... And yeah... If you want to come here and make $10/hour so you can send 50% of it back to the homeland to support your extended family and you don't want to pay taxes and you want to get free health care at MY expense... Yeah... Go HOME! However, if you'd like to come over here and play by the rules that all of us have to... Welcome home. Sorry for the slightly off topic post  . On the topic... The NCAA has no right to just start something like this... If a group that feels wronged would like to have their voice heard... They need to go to an organization like the NCAA and let them know and see what happens. If nothing happens or the NCAA blows them off, then take a step up the ladder and so on and so forth until your voice is heard. The NCAA all by itself has no moral or ethical ground to stand on wrt this. They run a basketball league. That's it. They're stepping out of line. | ||
| M1combat |
Yeah... That's pretty much where you would go in a situation like this if someone like the NCAA doesn't listen to you. To take it one step backwards, you would go to the school first one would think. | ||
| Genesisclimber |
Move this reactionary tripe to the politics board- M1Combat- No one is making you live in this country- if you don't like how the US is evolving, move. No one is going to force you to learn Spanish, and it's not like there's some huge public burden when the yellow pages makes a spanish version. Oh yeah- a race of people is not a mascot for some damn sports team. It's seriously offensive- it's like having the Washington Niggers or the Nashville Peckerwoods for a team name. (Message edited by GenesisClimber on August 15, 2005) |
