| Author | Message | ||
     Shazam |
the motor locked up from a seized roller bearing on the crank. I know of three other motors this has happened to, and rumor has it that "heavily" modified twin cams using this same bearing are dropping them too. (something I've heard but can't document) | ||
| Tripp |
that sucks! i think i read about that here on badweb maybe a year ago -bad roller bearings- so have you sent your cylinder back to millenium? from what i hear they're good with their warranties. | ||
| Shazam |
Yeah, it was a while back, Millenium billed $160 for the repair of that cyl. I'm going with Axtell this next time. | ||
| Tripp |
i don't blame you, did they even say something like "it was because of other problems, not the cylinder" as reason for billing you? and yep, them axtells look like fine cylinders. | ||
| Charley  |
Shazam said "here's a picture of one of my millenium cylinders after 2000 miles of "street" use.... " after that you said the motor seized up because of a bad bearing,ever thought about it that the faulty bearing is the reason of the lines in the cylinders? i mean debris of the bearings make a lot of damage. also who put the cylinders on the bike? | ||
| Pammy |
I am curious. Why would Millenium be expected to warranty damage caused by an unrelated incident? If metal got in the works or the crank dropped to one side due to the damaged bearing, that picture would be the result. | ||
| Pammy |
I am not bashing or praising anyone, but I have customers that have over 50k miles on their engines, running Millenium cylinders and the cylinders still look good. My own bike is running old AAC cylinders and my 88" motor puts out over 150rwhp and over 120ft lbs of tq. | ||
| Shazam  |
my cylinder exhibited signs of the plating failures discussed in the previous posts, I offered up a picture that is a good example of that failure(or what it looks like at least). I "assume" that not all of those failures involved debris, as I assume mine was not debris related (although remotely possible) as there appeared to be no scoring or scratches just the removal of the fine layer of coating in the cylinder. | ||
| Pammy |
Do you have other pictures? Again, I am just curious. From the picture you presented it appears that the heaviest scoring is on the lefthand side of the cylinder. | ||
| Shazam |
I have no other pictures of that cylinder. as to the warranty question, I fully didn't expect anything. "crank dropped to one side" is something I hadn't considered, and that would be another possibility, although I think it would have effected both cylinders in the same fashion. Granted, that picture shows the worst of the deterioration and it is of the same side as the bearing that failed. The marking continues around the bore. Pammy, with much respect and admiration for Wes and your accomplishments, I'll concede that I am far from qualified to conjecture about the cause of the cylinder's problem. And to the rest of you, I certainly should have prefaced that picture with more of a background than "street use". My line of thinking was that I had taken a few road trips on the motor, If I had given much previous thought to the seizure causing the plating problem I would have certainly phrased that differently. I wouldn't expect any cylinder to look like that after short use, and certainly didn't expect mine to. Sorry if I confused any of you, and I will continue to try and learn from the wealth of insight here. | ||
| Pammy |
"Pammy, with much respect and admiration for Wes and your accomplishments, I'll concede that I am far from qualified to conjecture about the cause of the cylinder's problem." Respect is appreciated and believe me, it goes both ways. I was in no way trying to contradict your claim. I would, however, caution EVERYONE to avoid being involved in a 'witch hunt', of sorts, by speaking before being absolutely sure. There are many 'authorities' on this site (and others) and opinions may vary... | ||
| Blake  |
Still waiting for your story about trouncing the competition at the Teresy Dyno Drags. Spill. Please Miss Brown? You whipped up on an R1 with your Buell X1? | ||
| Tripp  |
do tell pammy! here's a pic of on of my cylinders that was replaced with the 1250kit this is why i asked shazam about the damage  ...this is the stock cylinder | ||
| Tripp |
lol, i swear i did it right  | ||
| Rocketman  |
Here's my damaged AAC from the rear.  It's repaired now and good to go. Cost me £160 door to door. Rocket | ||
| Tripp |
my repair was a little pricier(read beginning of post)that was only because i did'nt have a garage although there were some things i could'nt have done for lack of special tools. bikes running great now. i am leaking oil however, but i think i've discovered from where it's leaking, i believe it's at the top of one of my pushrods. will probably get that nice billet kit from nrhs to repair that little problem. | ||
| Bartimus  |
 I am VERY unhappy with Millenium. After having a 1250 kit installed last spring, I am STILL waiting to ride my '95 S2 because of those crappy cylinders that keep losing their linings. Nallin has supported their product 100%.  Unfortunately, Millenium has not been as supportive of their product. After the lining went out on the cylinders on my 1250 kit at 3000 miles, Millenium managed to lose the pistons that were sent with the cylinders. this caused almost a two month delay in getting the motor put back together. Upon opening the package from Millenium, we found that the cylinders had been bead blasted, and are now have a dull aluminum finish.  Still waiting for the new cylinders to arrive. <sigh> How long do I have to wait to get this bike on the road? I am sooooo frustrated, at this point, to have a bike in the shop for almost a year, waiting for this cylinder issue to be resolved. As I sit here, waiting for new cylinders once again to arrive, so the shop can put the engine back together. That is IF Millenium does in fact send the right cylinders.  | ||
| Blake |
What are the symptoms of having the cylinder lining "go out"? You say "...cylinders that keep losing their linings." How many times has that happened to your S2's Millenium cylinders? Let's keep emotion at bay and stick to the facts please. The Millenium cylinders on my Nallinized 1250 kitted Cyclone have endured well over 10K miles including over 1,000 miles of track and race duty; they are performing fine. The customer service issues are another matter entirely, and you might want to give Millenium a call to see if they are willing to try to make things right with you. | ||
| Lornce  |
Anyone else having/had these problems with Millenium cylinders? | ||
| Tripp |
i've yet to have any problems and i am very happy with my kit, however if you read back toward the beginning of this thread, bart's been having a hell of a time getting his situation resolved with millenium, nrhs has helped him out but it seems millenium is dragging their feet. | ||
| Bartimus |
Yes, I've been having a bad time dealing with Millenium. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Nallin. The kit is solid, and I am very pleased with the support they have given me with this problem. The symptoms for me, was excessive consumption of oil. After break in, around 2500 miles, (this was back in May of 2004) the bike was using about a quart every 500 miles. My other S2, with 150,000 miles on the Odo, uses about the same, but it is understood, the engine is very worn out.  I contacted the shop that installed the kit, Santa Fe HD/Buell, and spoke with Murrae, the service manager, and all around good dude. He said bring it in, it's not right. This begins the saga of the poor S2 with 6500 miles on the Odo, that sits, and sits... Waiting for Millenium to produce the right parts to make it whole again. It is now February of 2005. The S2 has been in the shop for over 6 months, while Murrae has been working with Millenium to procure the right cylinders AND pistons. You see, as stated above, Millenium lost the pistons for a month or so, found them and sent them, only to have sent the wrong cylinders. When I picked up the bike three weeks ago, I was shocked to see they had been bead blasted and not repainted. I'm sure Murrae is at his wits end, trying to satisfy a customer, AND trying to maintain a working relationship with a distributor. I feel his pain, but hey, I'm tired of riding my S1W and want to get my butt on this Nallinized S2! If I can't get this resolved within the next two weeks, I plan on contacting Aaron and seeing what it will cost me to purchase a set of cylinders and pistons/rings, (I believe he uses Axtell now?) and get this bike back on the road. I bought this bike used last January, it had 4000 miles on the Odo when I bought it, I never put a mile on it, but brought it straight to the shop to get the Nallin kit installed. Murrae at Santa fe has been nothing but a great service manager, bending over backwards to accomodate me. The whole show is being held up by Millenium. I'm still not sure if Millenium is covering this as Warranty work. I know that Santa Fe is doing all this work for free, no charge to me. Those are the facts. Plain and simple. I don't bend the truth, and I'm not out to make any company look bad, I just want my bike under my butt running the way it should be. I do have regrets now to bringing in a dang near new S2 to have the kit installed, I should have brought the "old" S2 in. But, at the time, the older S2 had been stolen, beaten, and then recovered, and I was still in shock from the whole affair. | ||
| Chris_mackay  |
The lining on Millenium cylinders is removed by hard chrome plated piston rings. If the chrome plating is removed from the rings they'll be fine. Hal's race team had this problem, sent out the rings to be stripped and all is well now. Millenium seems to have a good product IF the correct rings are used! | ||
| Bartimus |
So there should be no problem if you use the rings supplied with the cylinders, right? I'm using all the parts supplied by Nallin with the 1250 stage 2 kit. | ||
| Lornce |
Bartimus, Thanks for the overview. Let us know how you make out. Was it ever determined what caused your excessive oil consumption? Poor, incorrect hone finish on nikasil bore? Wrong piston ring size or type? I've used cast rings on nikasil barrels in the past (non-Buell applications) with excellent results. | ||
| Blake |
You didn't answer my question.  You referred to your "crappy cylinders that keep losing their linings." How many times were they replated? I am led to question the validity of statements praising a service manager but then zeroing in full of ire upon one particular manufacturer and based upon 2nd hand information. It is my experience that some service managers often talk the talk but are not always as diligent when it comes to walking the walk. If your service guy wasn't on the phone with Millenium at least once a week checking on your cylinders, he dropped the ball. If it were me, I after a month I would have gathered all pertinent shipping and sales receipts and called the manufacturer in question personally. Yes, Millenium should have done better, much, much better. But I guarantee you that your service guy should have done much better too. A simple memo a month into the ordeal probably would have gone a long long way towards solving the confusion. Do you imagine that the folks at Millenium were thinking, "hey, let's •••• off that guy who is already disappointed with us. Let's ignore his work and the details about it"? Very doubtful. And am I understanding you correctly that you shipped two cylinders all the way back to Millenium just to have them painted? For less than the round trip shipping cost, you probably could have had them painted locally. Heck, if it were me, I'd have painted them myself. I feel your pain, I really do. I just don't appreciate what looks to be a one-sided blame and flame campaign. I've seen the same type of campaign waged by some against Buell motorcycles. It isn't right. It certainly isn't helpful or likely to benefit you in any way. Primarily I want to protect the integrity of the board and in no way want it to be used as a means to attack anyone or any venture. What I would like to see is a detailed dispassionate listing, much like Misato provided for his experience with Force Motor Products, that explains the facts of the case. Like... Service manager called Millenium on 3/4/05, Millenium had received the cylinders and verified that they were scheduled for completion of rework on 3/19/05. and on and on... dispassionate, factual, real information. (Message edited by blake on February 18, 2005) | ||
| Aaron |
WTF is this? You're attacking my customer because he had a bad experience with a product and a vendor? I don't think Art represented his experience as anyone's but his own. And what he said is the truth. It's not a "dishonest characterization". The cylinders are powder coated, not painted. Murrae did his job and bent over backwards to help him out, as did I. You're operating with a small sample size, lacking a lot of data, and know not of what you speak. You're in no position to accuse him of dishonesty. (Message edited by aaron on February 17, 2005) | ||
| Mikej  |
Chris wrote: "The lining on Millenium cylinders is removed by hard chrome plated piston rings. If the chrome plating is removed from the rings they'll be fine. Hal's race team had this problem, sent out the rings to be stripped and all is well now. Millenium seems to have a good product IF the correct rings are used!" Has this been checked or verified against what Art started with? Thank you for the info Chris, good stuff to know, and could be an easily overlooked aspect to this whole issue. | ||
| Blake |
Okay Aaron, I'm willing to rescind my criticism of Art's statement on one condition, that it is not an exageration. Please tell me how many times did Art have the cylinders replated? | ||
| Pammy |
"It is now February of 2005. The S2 has been in the shop for over 6 months, while Murrae has been working with Millenium to procure the right cylinders AND pistons. You see, as stated above, Millenium lost the pistons for a month or so, found them and sent them, only to have sent the wrong cylinders. When I picked up the bike three weeks ago, I was shocked to see they had been bead blasted and not repainted" I, being a shop owner myself, can guarantee you that I would have had new cylinders for you in less than 6 months and if they came in the wrong color, you would never have known because they would have been the proper color when you arrived to pick up your bike. I certainly would not have installed them on your bike in that state. But, Mistakes happen, we are all human. I smell a witch hunt here. I don't think Art is as much misleading as he is mislead. Art sounds like an enthusiastic, yet plagued, bike owner that has been a first hand witness of 'passing the buck'. By the way, I am operating with a very large sample size, loads of data, and I most assuredly know of what I speak. I certainly don't think Art should be accused of making dishonest charactizations...jaded would be the word I would use. Shame on you. (Blake, this very post is ironic, huh?) (Message edited by pammy on February 18, 2005) | ||
| Blake |
I agree Pammy. Shame on me. (but no spanking ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) ) Thanks for helping to keep me in line. Aaron, I am sorry that my comments to Art appeared to be an attack. My bad. I've edited that portion of my post accordingly. I respect that Art is very frustrated with his situation. I appreciate that you act to protect the integrity of your customer as I work to protect and defend the integrity of BadWeatherBikers.com. Blake |
