| Author | Message | ||
     99x1  |
The tuber FI bikes don't have a crankshaft sensor, they use the cam position sensor in the right side nose cone. Could the intermittent miss be the breather tubes dumping into the intake? (Liquid builds up and then goes through). My '99 has the tubes to the outside and doesn't do this. | ||
| Marks3tbillet  |
My breathers are vented out, not into the air cleaner. And yes, it's fuel injected with the race kit. | ||
| Bigdaddy  |
I'm stumped. '02 M2. Runs absolutely flawless for 3 hours, 3 days, maybe 3 weeks and then out of nowhere, while cruising at speed, it acts like it's out of gas. It just flat out quits. I just had it in the shop and and after many tries they were able to duplicate the problem. Replaced the check valve and called it fixed. Got it home two weeks ago and today it did the exact same thing. Cruising along about 50MPH and it cut off. Any, and all, advice will be appreciated. Thanks. Greg | ||
| Reepicheep  |
Everything turns over fine when it stalls, but it just won't fire up again? That would eliminate charging system. I would look at and try to eliminate the side stand switch and the fuel tank vent first. I would then (next time it stalls) have an extra spark plug with me and see if I am still getting spark when it is trying (and failing) to start. If it has spark, then I would check and see if it has gas (which would be harder, but not impossible). If it has all that, I would start looking for "odd" stuff like a loose cam position sensor or shorts in the wiring harness or bad connection to the ECM or something. | ||
| Steve_mackay  |
Does an M2 have a cam position sensor, or an ECM beyond the standard ignition module? | ||
| Reepicheep |
It's got something that you rotate to adjust the timing that sits behind those rivits on that little Cyclone logo cover that is on the cam cover. My apologies if I called it the wrong thing. Whatever it is, see if it is working when the bike won't start. I meant the ignition module / ECM / whatever you want to call it. I believe there is a Race ECM for the Cyclone, it just does not do much for you (gives a little extra RPM before the rev limiter kicks in). Not sure if it plays with the timing. Whats being described sounds like some sort of weird electrical gremlin, which usually ends up being some sort of nicked wire somewhere. | ||
| Mikej  |
First and foremost check your sidestand switch. Jumper it to remove it as a potential variable. If the problem goes away then either replace the switch or leave it jumpered. If it isn't that then it's probably something else.  | ||
| Aaron |
When it does it, reach down and pop the gas cap loose. If it comes back to life, it's a tank vent issue. The other really common cause of this is the sidestand switch. If it happens again and it's not one of these 2 things, the first thing to figure out is whether it's fuel or spark. If you can get a peek inside the carb throat, twist the throttle and see if the accelerator pump is squirting. If it is, pull a plug wire and stick a spark plug in it and lat it against some bare metal while you crank the motor and look for spark. DDFI bikes and carb'ed bikes use the same pickup unit/timing plate under that nose cone, but use a different rotor cup. The one on the carb'ed bikes has two windows on it, the DDFI timing cup has a bunch of'em. The M2 has an ignition module, not sure I'd call than an "ECM" because it has no control of the fueling, but I dunno, I don't decide such things. The race kit ignition module has essentially the same curve as the stock piece, and the same rev limit (6800), but eliminates the high rpm retard that kicks in at 6200 or so on the stock module. The race ECM for the injected bikes does the same for their ignition curve, plus it also changes the fuel mapping. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Bill, Thanks for the info (I tried to epost with no success thanking you earlier.) I eliminated the sidestand switch on the first day of ownership. It always has fire and I'm about 99% sure it quits delivering fuel. Aaron, I strongly suspect you've nailed it with the vent issue. I have, pure coincidence mind you, had it die in front of two different fuel stops. Stop, pull the cap, put in $2.00's worth of gas, and take right off with no problems. I call the ignition module ECM too -- not a whole lot different. I've actually swapped between the stock and the racekit version and the same problem occurs. How does one go about 'clearing' the vent -- or replacing it? Mikej, You're a funny guy. I tell my customers something very similar: "if this doesn't fix it then something else will." Your advice is greatly appreciated! G2 | ||
| Kdkerr2  |
Replace your stock petcock with a Pingle if you haven't already. The stock petcocks flow gas pathetically. The orifice is too small. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. I do not understand why it does not say at the begining of any speed equipment mods for any Harley: Install Pingle Petcock before any further steps!! (Message edited by kdkerr2 on January 05, 2005) | ||
| Bigdaddy |
> [Reep, Very insightful stuff -- Thanks. I can tell you that it always has spark -- carrying an extra plug around to verify that fact. Cam position sensor is a-OK and the dealer, these guys are of the decent variety and I've done business with them for 20+ years (that doesn't mean they're always right, but they're always willing to go for it and figure it out.) I strongly suspect that when this happens it's purely a fuel starvation issue, but would the new check valve not have eliminated that one? Your thoughts on the tank ventilation intrgiues me greatly -- can you think of litmus test for such an error? Up to this point it's been akin to attempting to break BlowFish with graphpaper. Appreciate the advice. G2] | ||
| Reepicheep |
Breaking blowfish with graph paper is easy. Just use the graph paper to write down the private key you found on the sticky note stuck underneath the senders desk On my first bike (a Yamaha Radian) this was a common problem, and the test was to wait for it to happen, pop the fuel cap, listen for the little "whoosh", and note that the bike would then fire right back up once the carb bowls filled again. Aaron had a good test. I remember I had seen that accelerator jet squirt fuel in the carb, but did not remember how far I had the bike apart when I saw that. It would be an easy test, and it sounds like you are well on your way to finding the problem. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
That's a good one :-) I needed a bit of humor this AM. Thanks Reepi. G2 | ||
| Hans  |
Bigdaddy: Pull the vent hose from the nipple on the tank, put your lips around the nipple and blow: You will know if the vent valve is closed or open. When closed: Use an air compressor. Not the full pressure: "Pointing" to the nipple will be enough. Same procedure for the vent hose: But suck now. Seldom pinched. Closed vent valve more often. Cause: Overfilling or after tipping the bike over. Hans  | ||
| Captainkirk  |
Greg: If you suspect the vent valve is blocked, simply loosen the cap and see if it fires up. I doubt this is a fuel feed problem-sounds more like ignition to me. Next time it dies, have a spare plug on hand and ground it to the engine and crank. If you're getting no spark it'll be pretty evident. You can verify the fuel thing pretty easy by looking down the carb throat and rolling on the throttle. If there's enough gas in the bowl to fire the engine, you'll see a nice squirt of fuel in the carb throat. You can also verify fuel in the bowl by opening the drain valve (on the CV-40 type carb) to see if any fuel drains out the hose. Pretty sure indication. I'm leaning more towards an ignition/kill/clutch/sidestand problem. Run the bike 'til it fails then be ready to troubleshoot it at the time of failure. If fuel feed is the problem, I've seen bits of spider pieces in the carb passages (don't ask me how they get there) as the culprit before. But check your spark first. | ||
| Chris_mackay  |
If you hadn't already verified that it always has spark I would have suggested checking the kill switch. I had a Sportster that had very similar symptoms. | ||
| Djkaplan  |
"Replace your stock petcock with a Pingle if you haven't already. The stock petcocks flow gas pathetically. The orifice is too small. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out." WTF? A Pingle petcock with reserve is over $100. For a petcock? Is the petcock on my 2K M2 really bad enough that it has to be replaced? Is it really possible that after all the years manufacturing sporting motorcycles, Buell put a petcock on a carburetted engine that can't keep up with fuel flow? If this is true, is a $100 petcock the only answer? | ||
| Ocbueller  |
DJ, I think most people on this board will agree that the petcocks on Buells are not an issue. SteveH | ||
| Lornce  |
"I think most people on this board will agree that the petcocks on Buells are not an issue. SteveH" I'm not one of those people, Steve. In the second of two successive "flat-out full throttle through the gears to top" straights half way between corners 1 and 2 on our local road course, my S1 routinely and mysteriously runs out of steam. The steam doesn't return until it's time to power out of turn 2. Took me a few laps to figure out the machine's fuel starved. There isn't enough fuel flow through the stock petcock to support the stock T-Storm motor run flat-out through both straights consecutively until the exit of turn 2, by which time the float bowl's had chance to refill. fwiw, Lornce | ||
| Nidan |
Does anyone know if there is a difference, and in that case what it is, between the European stock ECM (BX9EC20CB060) and the US stock ECM (BX9US20CB060)? | ||
| Sportyeric  |
My S2 did the same thing when I got it. Turned out to be water in the tank. Add some gas and good to go, just like yours. Drain some fuel off with the petcock on reserve. Use a plastic pop bottle and you'll see if that's the problem. The Sportster had a bad (aftermarket) gas cap that didn't breathe properly. With that, there would be a big WHOOSH when you opened the cap. Good luck. | ||
| Bollert |
I'm losing my mind with my new XB-12R Buell. It has the dealer installed race kit. It has been to the dealer twice for TPS/AFV resets, primary chain adjustment, cam sensor adjustment, etc. Tech guaranteed me the bike was perfectly tuned. Thing is, I rode it a couple times in the cold (40-45 F) and the thing is crazy lean. At partial throttle, the thing just sputters like mad. Full throttle is better, but dangerous riding through town. Also after running it hard, the idle will hang at 2000 when stopped for a while. AND, sometimes it idles erratically. If this is normal for a Buell, tell please. | ||
| Finnman |
I have a 2000 M2 with the 42mm Mikuni installed. In adjusting the air/fuel mixture per the manual that came with the carb, it seems to say turning the screw clockwise (in) richens the mixture and counterclockwise (out) leans the mixture. Am I interpreting this correctly? The way it's written leads to interpretation - not 100% clear. I'm trying to get rid of an intermittent backfire through the carb during initial throttle input. I haven't checked for intake gasket leaks yet, but will. Appreciate the help! (Message edited by finnman on February 02, 2005) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Bollert, not at all normal. It needs more attention. If the tech witnesses this kind of behavior and repeats that story, find another dealer. I am hoping they are doing the right thing, and the tech just never saw the intermittent issue. | ||
| Shotgun |
Finnman, that sure sounds backwards. Turning the screw in should reduce the amount of fuel at idle, leaning the mixture. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Finnman; From my HSR42 tuning manual, page 3-4: ..."With the engine idling smoothly, adjust the pilot air screw in slowly until the idle either slows or becomes irregular, then turn the screw out until the engine again slows or begins to run irregularly. Count the number of turns between the two positions. Set the air screw mid-way between these too-rich and too-lean positions. Use the Idle adjuster to reset the idle speed. If the engine becomes too hot during the adjustment procedure, the resulting idle mixture will probably be on the lean side of correct. If you have a large fan, use it while adjusting the mixture. If you do not have one, you may need to take time out for a short ride to cool the engine back to normal temperature. NOTE: 1. If the best idle is achieved with the air screw less than one turn out, the pilot jet is too small and should be exchanged for a larger one. 2. If the engine speed does not slow after two and a half turns out, the pilot jet is too large and should be exchanged for a smaller one." If you are still getting backfiring, spray some WD-40 around the intake "Y" and spigot while the engine idles. If idle speed picks up, you may have an induction leak causing a lean condition. Make sure none of the WD-40 is entering the air filter, as that will also cause engine speed to pick up as well. In case that wasn't clear, YES...clockwise to lean, CCW to enrichen (Message edited by captainkirk on February 02, 2005) | ||
| Henrik  |
Bollert: the lean condition as well as the hanging idle could indicate an intake leak. Do a search for "intake leak", and/or read this page - the whole thing: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=47623&post=322409#POS T322409 Henrik | ||
| Finnman  |
Thanks guys. Sometimes working with new animals you find design differences that are different from mainstream. Thought this may have been one of them. Have a great weekend! | ||
| Bollert |
Thanks,I'll check for the leak. If it's there, I'll take it back for warranty repair. | ||
| Jbennett |
Does anyone know if a fuel injection engine can be swapped out with carb. That is, can the base engine for the FI work with a carb? |
