| Author | Message | ||
     Gearloose |
Anyone ever tried Castrol Syntec 5/50 ? I used to run it in my Ducatis without any trouble. Just curious as to the 5w50 as opposed to the 20/50 HD or Amsoil. Thanks Kenny | ||
| Reepicheep |
I have mobil 1 15w-50 in my Cyclone now, and it is making me nervous. The lower viscosity at the bottom (15) definately changes the character of how the bike runs, and I worry about it being too thin. I don't doubt for a second that Harley packages semi-synthetic instead of synthetic because it is "good enough" and gives them a higher profit margin. Fine with me, makes good business sense, and it probably is good enough. They charge the normal premium for putting a label on their oil can that matches the label on the bike. Heck, I paid that much for yamalube and I don't even think it was semi-synthetic. But I DO think they choose the 20w-50 for a reason. Think about it, they could have ordered anything. While it is possible they just chose a spec that would be hard to find an alternate for, I suspect it was actually an engineering call from the people that know the engines. I think the Ducatti engine has significantly different needs in oil then the Harley engine (oil pump, roller bearning, etc)... but I am no expert. For my next oil change, I am going to the Mobile 1 Vtwin 20w-50, mainly because I can get it about half a mile away at an Autozone any time I want. The Mobil 1 15w-50 would probably be fine, but I can get the exact weight in a fantastic pure synthetic for only about $10 more per oil change, which is below my pain threshold for something I will probably only do 4 times a year. But these are just opinions, and I will defer to people that have actually rebuilt engines. I would not go so far away from the recommended viscosity range though. Bill | ||
| Leeaw |
I heard the Mobil V-twin has certain additives, but I stopped using it because I did not want to drive 1/2 hour to get it. I am using the Mobil1 15/50 but may go get the V-twin again so I can get some sleep. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I know what you mean... I remember your bearing woes. Puts the fear of God in you (even though those had nothing to do with engine oil). I heard that there was some extra non-foaming additive. It sounded like smoke and mirrors, but who knows. What somebody said (sorry, I forget who) was that the mobil 1 15w-50 was actually a 10w weight base with extra stuff put in to raise viscosity, and that the 20w-50 was an honest 20w base. That might be a legimite reason. But ultimately, like you, I do it becuause I sleep well for $40 or so a year. If you have an Autozone nearby, ask at the counter. Mine did not stock it out on the shelves, but had 30 some quarts in back. Bill | ||
| Fastback69 |
Turbine oil uses Tricresyl phosphate (sp?) as an antifoaming agent, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Mobil had something similar. | ||
| Ron |
Question to the Buellers with oil loss woes: Regarding my 2000 S-3T. Have had valve guide seales and rings replaced. The "Cure" installed. A Spike crank case valve installed in the breather lines and exited out unter the rear fender. All lines checked for pinching. Running Amsoil 20-50 High Performance. With all this I still loose oil BUT, and I think this is important, ONLY at rpms above 3500. The higher the rpm the faster the oil goes away. Just finished the Iron Butt's Saddle Sore 1000. I ran the last leg of 130 miles at 85 - 105. Lost over a half quart in that time. (If your careful about deer and MT Highway Patrol you can still do this on the remote roads of Montana with a fair degree of safety. I ran Rout 2. I run an electronic deer alert which works very well.) Anyway - does anyone out there have a similar problem and has anyone found a real cure. Even running 75 and 80 mph I have to stop and unpack all my seat loaded gear to check the oil and usually need to add some. This makes the 'T' for touring aspect of the bike a joke. Finally: Regarding all the posts about oil filters and the pressure of the pressure reliefe valves: NAPA has a Harley specific filter # 1215. Often they are on the shelf but can usually be ordered for 1 or 2 day delivery. The NAPA # also cross reference to a WIX filter but I don't recall the #. I would assume that if the filter is specifically for the H-D the reliefe valve trip pressure would be correct for our bikes. I could not help but note however that the part #1215 is very close to the car application #1515. Perhaps I will call NAPA to find out what the difference is and see if it really is the pressure reliefe let off. Any help with the oil loss problem will be appreciated. Ron PS. On the Saddle Sore 1000. Me and the S-3T made 1068 miles in just over 18 hours. This would have been better had I not had to stop - unpack, and add oil twice (just to be safe). Also had to make stops to clean off my face sheild due to the worst bug situation I have ever encountered between Devils Lake and Minot North Dakota. | ||
| Aaron |
Ron: I see a lot of Buells with some oil consumption issues, and I see a few that use no oil at all. In fact, I own examples of both. IMO, the accuracy of the machine work is a major factor. Ring seal on these things is a tough cookie. To have a chance, the bore needs to be squared with both surfaces and correctly stressed with a suitable torque plate, and the finish needs to be correct for the rings. Most general machine shops don't have the HD expertise and equipment to really do it right, either. Best bet, IMO, is to send it to someone like Axtell, they specialize in HD cylinders, hell, they manufacture them. They offer a reconditioning service for stock cyls and probably have a quicker turnaround time, even with shipping, than local machine shops. AW | ||
| Buelliedan |
Lee and others, You are correct in that the Mobil 1 20w/50 is getting very difficult to find. It also is expensive! I can get you the Amsoil V-Twin 20w/50 shipped directly to your door for the same price as the Mobil 1 if you buy 4 quarts or more. That's with the shipping charges included. Saves you the hassle of going to the store. Plus it performs better than the Mobil 1!!! Please see my website for more info http://www.lube-direct.com/ddunn | ||
| Ron |
Aron, Would you trust a fairly good Harley Dealer with the job of truing up the cylinders? I have been letting them do everything on this thing and they even installed "the Cure" all on warranty. I let them know of the continuing problem and they said they would tear it down again and check "more stuff". That would be on my warranty as I have the 4 year extended and this has been an ongoing problem so should fall under the original. I have also thought about just installing a set of American Air Cooled cylenders and pistons with Total Seal rings. But the $$$ just isn't there. And I would like to see Buell make this thing work the way it's supposed to. Thanks for the feedback. Ron | ||
| Buelliedan |
Ron, From what I've heard the AAC cylinders would probably cause even more leakage due to their porosity. Just don't tell Rocket!! Dan | ||
| Aaron |
Ron: personally, no I wouldn't. You may get a good job from them, but why take a chance? Especially when you can just zap them to the top manufacturer of high performance & racing HD cylinders in the country, and get a quick turnaround at a competitive price. AW | ||
| José_Quiñones |
here's an interesting picture I took at the WERA/AMA PRO THUNDER weekend at Summit Point, WV:  Notice the oil box, MOBIL 1 10W30! that's what Tilley is using in their Race Bikes. I did not ask them why they chose that weight. By the way, Chuck Goldman wrote the following about MOBIL 1 V-Twin and the 15-50 car oil in the December 2000 issue of American Iron: Bottom Line: I personally use Mobil 1 V Twin 20W-50 in my bike. If I were on the road and down a quart, and I could not find Mobil 1 V Twin 20W-50, then I'd use Mobil 1 Tri-synthetic Formula 15W-50. If I couldn't find that I'd use HD 360 20W-50. For me, any other automotive oil would only be an avenue of last resort | ||
| Buelliedan |
Jose, Key words are "race bike" You can almost bet that they change that 10w30 after every run. Plus it is more important to them to have the most power available even if it means rebuilding the engine more often. | ||
| Leeaw |
Bulliedan, Does Amsoil contain the magic phosphors or whatever is in the V-twin? I used to use synthetic Amsoil in my Corrado with good results. I would order it if it meant not having to try and find the V-twin. | ||
| Rocketman |
Ah well, I've heard the word about porous AAC's from a well informed source, and it pertains only to early manufactued ones, pre 99 I think, which means mine, but hey, mine are doing just fine. When I return from the States the top end is coming off for new Cometic base gaskets and that head repair. I'll let you know how they've held up then. So far though, 10000 pretty strong miles and no problems at all ! Rocket in England | ||
| Bluzm2 |
I needed an oil filter for my wifes car today. I stopped at the WalMart 2 min from my home. They have Mobil 1 V Twin 20W-50 oil in stock! I about fell over. If I remember correctly, it was about 6.88/quart. Is that about the going rate? Thanks Brad | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think I paid closer to $8 at a local autozone... that sounds pretty good. Bill | ||
| Clydeglide |
Brad, That's the same price as the Wal-Mart here in FL. Clyde | ||
| Buelliedan |
Lee, The Amsoil V-twin contains all the good stuff needed for our bikes and in wear tests it outperforms the Mobil 1. See my website and go to the "faqs" page for more info. Brad, I would be surprised if the Mobil 1 V-twin was under $7 because Mobil has a stipulation that it must be sold for $8 a quart. http://www.lube-direct.com/ddunn | ||
| Leeaw |
Dan, It is $8 a quart. | ||
| Clydeglide |
Dan, Mobil 1 V-Twin is $6.88 at Wal-Mart. Mobil 1 automotive oils are $3.54/qt. Clyde | ||
| Buelliedan |
Clyde, I would suggest that if you like the Mobil 1 V-twin you grab every quart you can get because once Mobil finds out they are selling it for that price they will be banned from selling it. This is info I received from a vendor who works for Motorcycle.com. That is an unreal price for the Auto Mobil 1 as well. The walMart here sells if for $4.25 a quart. Now you see why I became a dealer!! Dan | ||
| Clydeglide |
"because once Mobil finds out they are selling it for that price they will be banned from selling it." Dan, I understand your involvement in this thing but frankly I don't think Mobil is that stupid. Clyde Too slippery my A$$ | ||
| Aaron |
Dan, I'm doubtful of the info this guy gave you. There's a law against that. It's called price fixing. AW | ||
| S2no1 |
Aaron, While I also doubt the information, it's only price fixing if all oil manufacturers agree to sell oil at the same price. If Mobil want to limit their competiviness by requiring a minimum sale price at the retail outlet that is legal. It has the effect of instilling value in the product, making prices similar for Mobil products throughout the US and not competing with the low end oils, such as SuperTech etc. Arvel | ||
| Aaron |
Well, I'm not a lawyer, but as it's been explained to me, what you're describing is a violation of anti-trust laws. Perhaps I used the wrong term. Same reason motorcycles and cars carry a "manufacturer's suggested retail price" ... the manufacturers can't legally dictate a price, minimum or otherwise. AW | ||
| S2no1 |
Aaron, Wouldn't anti-trust be invoked if Mobil was in position to unfairly monopolize the market? I.E. they are the domaniant player in the oil market or have the only synthetic oil? I manufacture and sell widgets, there are five other widget manufactures. I have 10% of the market and don't want a higher share. In my contract with the retail sales outlets I require that the retail outlets not sell my widgets below a certain price to maintain profitability on my widgets. I may have to limit or plan production better since there are cheaper widgets avilable, or advertise the quality of my widgets to make people pay the premium. Getting two engineers to discuss corporate law is dangerous. We may actually want to use some common sense and make corporate law work in the real world. Arvel | ||
| Buelliedan |
Aaron, Actually it might be WalMart who is breaking the law in this case. Several times there have been lawsuits filed against them for selling products cheaper than wholesale to try to drive their competitors out of business. This is illegal if you are undercutting others prices just to hurt their business. Gas station have the same rules. They must sell their gas at least 5% more than wholesale price. Some places like WalMart are circumventing the law though by using "cash back" cards. It's good for the consumer for a while but what will happen if WalMart puts all it's competetors out of business? Notice how they charge much more for the Mobil 1 car oil here in Texas. Do you think there is a reason why they are selling it cheaper in Florida? Have you noticed that Chapparal no longer sells Arai helmets? This is because they were selling them cheaper than Arai wanted them too so Arai took away their distributorship. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
I'm back from vacation (did the tourist thing in the Black Hill's of SD), while you guys figure out the legal stuff, I'm gonna go buy me some oil!! Brad | ||
| Blake |
Dan: Would those wear tests that show Amsoil outperforming Mobil-1 be the four ball wear tests? If so... they mean little to nothing for oils used in an internal combustion engine. It's purely marketing spin by Amsoil. The four ball wear tests are applicable to cases where EXTREME pressures are part of the operational scenario, like in some heavy duty speed reducers, worm drives, and such. The four ball wear tests were designed to evaluate the performance of greases and heavy oils used in such extreme pressure (EP) scenarios. It is misleading to use the four ball test to evaluate engine lubricants. |
