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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was able to wedge mine out... I seem to remember it wanting to hit the frame, and having a moment or two of concern, but I believe I was able to work it out.

I think the forcewinder comes with the straight out breather bolts (not 90 degrees)... but I got mine used in a bucket with lots of parts, some of which were part of the forcewinder and some of which I think were parts of the bike it came off of (being converted to a drag racer). The straight out breather bolts were the ones I used for the setup shown.

Try again, and wiggle things a little after the carb support bracket has been removed. As the bolt backs out, it will have a little more play, so it might be more possible then it looks. I hate to think you have to pull the heads to get a silly little breather bolt off. I know I did NOT have to on my '00 cyclone.

If it still won't come out, you could probably duplicate the setup (maybe even better as it might end up more flush) with a small U shaped piece of the PCV valve tubing. Anybody know where to get pre-bent sections of that stuff, or how to bend it yourself (such that it does not kink)?

Bill
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Al_Lighton
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 11:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Semi,
If you know your not going to reuse it, take the easy way and just dremel off the L fitting then screw it out. All the other ways to get the clearance needed to get it out are a LOT more work. I use a banjo fitting on that now, but it does require occasional retightening to keep from leaking for some reason. I think the washers compress over time.

Al
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Pbuckley
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Reepicheep

Nice application! Tell me more about the tees you used. How far do they protrude from the breather bolts?

The filter is a Drag Specialties DS-289073 dual inlet breather filter element (about $12) per my post above of 6/21.

I did end up using plastic tubing for my bottom loop with no melt downs after 1000 mi. It looks pretty gross though with puke smeared all over the inside ofthe tubing. I did go one step further and put a tee at the lowest point of the bottom loop with an extra length of tube and a plug to ease the chore of draining. You could route it just about any where. Again I placed the filter inside the airbox because I think the negative pressure helps suck the puke out and might even make the EPA happy (not my agenda).

Preston

My Breather Setup
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Sem1
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 11:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thank you for the reponses.

Bill: I am afraid there is no way the front breather bolt is going to come out. I tried wiggling it this way and that way, and it would always hit the frame.

Al: I will consider cutting the L off. I believe it would still be possible to install the stock air box using a straight breather bolt. At least looking at Preston's photo above tells to me so.

Cheers,
Semi
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Jocklandjohn
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 01:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Reepicheep - that's a really nice evocative touring picture you got there - the one with the map of Ireland on the back of your M2. Why does the map not show the main motorways though???

:-)
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S2carl
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Semi,

Grab the barbed outlet with a set of linesman pliers and rip it out. It is press fit into the bolt portion and will come out fairly easy. Once out the bolt will spin right out.

Carl
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 09:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Preston... the tees look about the same as yours for distance... I believe the whole setup is still below the plane of the frame (which was goal number one... not fusing it to the exhaust was goal number two).

I will shoot a pic tonight. I thought the brass tee was a nice touch, but the stainless webbing definately needs a little shrink tubing on the ends to clean it up.

I'm suprised the clear tubing had not melted... they run pretty close to the exhaust. I have not found much junk accumulating in the lines, and with the hidden end of the bottom loop not cable tied, I can literally empty it in 15 seconds on or off the bike.

And it's neat on foggy mornings at low idle to see steam snorting out of that filter with each engine revolution... and I am beginning to have fond memories associated with the smell of hot Mobil 1 :)

Bill
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Orion
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello Everyone,

I'm about to add a Forcewinder to my almost-stock 00 M2, but had a quick question. With my stock setup I have never dealt with any oil leaks or breather problems. Reading some of these messages I notice a lot of people talking about this.

Will I encounter problems once I use the Forcewinder? If so what will they be? I'm sure any side-effects are probably worth it, but I spend most of my "garage time" working on my dirt-bikes, and like the fact that my Buell is almost maintenance-free.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


Quote:

my Buell is almost maintenance-free


Barkeep! Gimme two of whatever he's having! :)

The re-routing of the breathers is simply to keep the oily mist from the crankcase from being sucked into the engine, where it can cause carbon deposits. Remember a 45 degree common crankpin twin will have significant changes in crankcase volume during a each engine rotation, and the air blowby (exhaust mixed with unburned hydrocarbons) going in and out has can also carry an oil mist and some condensed water. The EPA wants this mist and unburned hydrocarbons burned in the engine, many mechanic types feel this will shorten engine life... but there is not much being burned, so I don't think it is a huge deal either way.

While you have the airfilter off, you might as well change your slow jet and adjust the mixture. It is easier than you could imagine, (less then 30 minutes) and will let the bike run cooler. Your fast jet is probably fine already (probably a 200). See the carb page for tips (2.5 turns out from bottom on air mixture screw after drilling out pressed aluminum plug, 45 slow jet, leave the needle and fast jet alone).

You will like the forcewinder... gives the bike a nice "snort" on acceleration... and things are not otherwise much louder. If anything, rejetting and rerouting the breathers while installing a forcewinder will make the bike MORE reliable. Or so I read on the internet :)

And if you want to keep your M2 reliable... strongly consider updating the front muffler mount and updating your primary chain tensioner as well. Also double nut your exhaust header studs. It will keep you from trashing your transmission, breaking lots of exhaust related parts, and shearing off exhaust header studs... If you have a good dealer, the front muffler mount was probably done with the shock recall.

Bill with some editing by Blake

Bill: Please forgive my rude invasion into your post. Excellent info and advice with just a few points that needed clarifying. :)
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Orion
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK, I meant maintenance-free relative to my motocross bike, which I manage to crash every other time out. :)

Thanks for the info guys.

You mentioned rerouting the breathers, are instructions for doing that included with the Forcewinder, or am I going to need to find some old posts from here for instructions?

Sorry for the ignorance: first street bike. Lots of extra parts compared to a 2-stroke single. :)

thanks,
J.D.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Blake! Only next time, fix it without telling anyone so I look smarter :)

I don't know about the new forcewinders... I think some have a connection to just plug the breather lines into the forcewinder near the elbow, but I am not sure.

My older one has no such connection, so I had to reroute the breathers... though I would likely have done so anyway.

The only thing to worry about is to make sure you have a filter on the line... it both inhales and exhausts, so without a small air filter of some sort it could bring in contaminants.

Go back a few days and you will see shots of mine, which used a filter with two nipples and a couple of tee connectors (autoparts store PCV (not PVC) tubing) to create a loop around the top of the forcewinder for the filter, and a loop around the bottom for a primitive catch can. Preston has a nice similiar approach above that uses the stock airbox.... once you run across the double nipple filter, the approach is pretty obvious.

Bill "still learning a LOT" Kilgallon
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Orion
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks. Not that I should trust the picture, but this kit I was considering seems to have quite a few hoses and tee connectors. I think I see a filter in that bundle too.

forcewinder filter system
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 04:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looks like about what I got in the "bucket -o- parts" when I got mine (actually, looks like they left me an extra mounting bracket as well)...

That looks to be a single ended filter (which is what I tried first). It will work fine, but will saturate pretty quickly (200 miles?) and start dripping on whatever is under it.

If you want to go the loop route, you will need the double ended filter, two elbows (that should come off your stock system) and one more tee.

Bill
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Drat. I topped off my engine oil last week, and on two of my commutes this week my above described breather apparatus misted my right pantleg.

It's on the right track, but it still needs work. I think there needs to be a larger cooling area of some sort that will allow condensate to form and run down without much possibility of getting ingested back into the engine.

Picture something like the two nipple filter above, but with four nipples and a solid can. Go from the breather bolts under the forcewinder into two of the can nipples (on either side), and then the other two nipples loop back around the top of the breather into the double filter.

I think the current setup chuffs air so rapidly it does not have much chance to settle in the bottom loop and gets sprayed right back out.

The other approach would be to enclose the whole double filter uptop in some sort of catch can... so that when it does drip after saturation, it just drips into the can. This could be done (and would probably be easier to do) with the single nipple filter.

Bill "back to the drawing board" Killgallon
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Pbuckley
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 06:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Reepicheep

Don't give up the ship. I really think your on to something here.

When I first installed my breather setup with the filter inside the airbox, I did have just a bit of misting show. I have not had any in the 1000 miles after that. I assumed that it was residual puke that was blowing out from the old setup.

It has been recommended here that you don't top off your oil more than half way up the dipstick and only check your level after a ride to make sure all the oil has been pumped up to the tank. I have noticed that this practice has reduced pukage collected in the bottom loop to less than a teaspoon in 500 miles and after my bike sat long enough to allow separation, more than half of that was condensate(H2O).

Anyway, what do you think if you try-

-Elbowing down from the breather bolts before you tee off. The puke would have to make a u turn before getting up to the filter. Maybe the puke would be encouraged to stay down in the bottom loop and the air would have no problem negotiating the turn up as long as the puke accumulated in the bottom loop is not high enough to block the route.

-I would imagine it is possible once the bottom loop closes off with puke that it would get pushed around a bit with the changing pressures from each rockerbox. If this is a problem, a tee at the lowest point of the bottom loop with a catch tube would leave the bottom loop empty unless the catch tube was allowed to overflow into the bottom loop.

-Relocate the dual nipple filter with longer tubes (maybe under the gas tank), making sure you don't create a low spot for puke to accumulate. The longer run will help discourage the puke from getting to the filter and you remove the filter from the airstream in front of your pants.

-Don't wear your dress pants while riding your bike or wear chaps.


I really like the way your setup looks with the Force. I hope if you try any of these ideas that it will remain looking clean and simple.

Preston
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Sparky
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aaron,

All the dyno work you did to disprove the claims of the Hayden Krank Vent has been backed up with independent testing by Motorcycle Consumer News magazine August issue. They tested a hopped up 95 inch Twin Cam that made 97.5 rwhp before installation of the Krank Vent and made slightly less afterwards. They called Hayden to find out why and were told that the device was intended for the early Evos that didn't come with umbrella valves. So, their conclusion (same as yours) is that the Krank Vent does nothing and is a waste of money when fitted to anything but an early Evo.

Thanks to your Battle2Win article, you scooped 'em.

Sparky
96S1, 98S3
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Aaron
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Sparky,

Yeah, I heard about that article. I used to subscribe to that rag but the damn thing would only show up sporadically. Talking with their subscription services over the phone was like talking to a wall, I finally got frustrated and pulled the plug and got a refund.

Anyhoo, I didn't really set out to disprove their value with respect to horsepower, that's just kinda the way the results ended up pointing. I tried to just lay out all the data, people are free to draw their own conclusions.

If you look at the results, though (now archived), you'll see that I couldn't even get them to influence the power on an early Evo, my '90 FXR which breathes off the bottom and has no umbrella valves.

AW
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Orion
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Got my Forcewinder yesterday. Love the look, hate the breather setup (I'm sure you've all heard that before).

Has anyone tried drilling a hole in the intake tube before? I'd like to connect the two lines from the heads into one hose, and then route it into a hole in the intake tube. Then I'd probably end up using some sealant around the hose.

I have 2 concerns: Will the tube crack when I drill the hole? Do you think it would hold together?

It sounds like a reasonable idea, but I'm a little scared to drill into something I just spent around $200 on.

J.D.
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S2carl
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Orion,

I did just that and tapped the hole. I then threaded a 90 degree elbow into the hole to plumbed the breather system into. Worked like a charm.

Carl
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Orion
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 12:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Very cool, I never thought about tapping it. I'll give it a shot.

I installed it tonight with a temp breather setup, because I couldn't wait. I'm VERY impressed. Even without any jetting changes I really like the difference.

I bought a V&H pipe this week, too. Can't wait to put it on and re-jet. Should be a much different bike.

J.D.
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Sem1
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 04:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hi!

Now that I have fixed the leaking rocker boxes and implemented a nice breathing system on my S1W, I am left with a happy motor that is not spewing oil uncontrollably. However, I have one more problem to solve; how do I get rid of the oil stains on the cylinder cooling fins? Any insight into this would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Semi
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Orion
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sem1: Have you dried Simple Green? I use it on everything from nasty 2-stroke exhaust goo to general degreassing tasks. I've never tried it on an oil stain, but usually a little Simple Green and a brush will do the trick on anything.

J.D.
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Bomber
Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2001 - 09:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sem1 . . .if simplegreen won't budge the stuff, get some starting fluid . . . . that's workedfor me about 75%of the time, if the oil's not been baked on
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Sem1
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 02:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Orion, Bomber: thank you for the tips. I will try them both when I get around to washing the bike the next time. I am a bit worried though 'cause the oil has probably burnt onto the cooling fins pretty well. - Semi
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Bigfanof6
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 08:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would like to take credit for this breather, but I must give the credit to Tilley's H-D/Buell. Pretty sweet, if I may say so myself.
breather
Chris
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Sem1
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Chris, Did you ditch the carb/aircleaner support bracket, or am I just blind for not seeing it in the picture?
Cheers, Semi
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Troop
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I am wondering too ? What's holding your carb to the manifold ? Suction ?
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Tripper
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 09:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's the Cecil mod :(
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Bigfanof6
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 12:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes, the carb support bracket is tucked safely away in the basement. Not needed without the bread box. The fit between the intake/carb throat, the cables, and the hoses hold the carb on quite nicely. If it falls off, I'll let you know. (It's been like this for a few hundred miles so far)
Chris
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 06:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would not run without that bracket. Heck, I have a had enough time keeping my bolted bits on the bike, much less a highly leveraged friction fit.

And if it does come off, get that clutch pulled and the engine stopped ASAP. You would hate to ingest anything into your now open intake.
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