| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
José: That link you posted on the 2000 Buell Engine Quick Board Subtopic about cryogenic treatment of brake disks and and engine parts was interesting. Thanks for posting that. I'm not sure, but after rereading it and aside from their goofed definition of cryogenics, do you see anything questionable about the process they describe? The true definition of cryogenics is... cry·o·gen·ics - noun (used with a sing. or pl. verb ): The production of low temperatures or the study of low-temperature phenomena. Also called cryogeny. BHR knows about this stuff, re his posts in the "Engine - Mechanical" subtopic. Maybe he can shed some light on how much it might benefit some of our Buell components? I'm thinking of sprockets (primary and secondary drives), valve train components, clutch plates, swingarm bearings, and steering head bearings. Materials Science is really interesting. I HATED chemistry though! Blake | ||
| X96283 |
Hey tony if you ever get the chance and are allowed to ride Kolekole pass, please do so!! It passes through the LLL Naval Mag so you need to be in proper military riding clothes... but boy its worth it with all those switch backs and curves  giusto 00 m2 oahu | ||
| Dark_Ninja |
Blake, Just thought I would revisit an issue we discussed many moons ago. After feeling the awesome inspirational and healing power of the new Elves gear (Shirt, patch, and hat) I decided I was TIRED of rattling brakes and would take it upon myself to throw the spotlight of inferior mechanical ability and expensive beer on the problem. When we spoke of this last I couldn't accept what you were saying about the pads rattling around inside the caliper because I couldn't 'mesh' what you were telling me with what I was seeing on my bike. There was a good reason for this, you were describing a problem that exists on '98 rotors, my bike was upgraded by the previous owner to '00 or '01 rotors! That REALLY threw me when I sat down next to my bike with the service manual to remove the caliper and do some testing. At first I thought I was being victimized by a bad service manual (a' la' Chilton's), but the issue became clear when I went to get new brake pads and found that the '98 pads wouldn't fit my bike. It takes '00 or '01 pads! Doh! So, since the pads weren't the culprit, all that was left was the rotor itself. Back to the dealer with milk money in hand...1 new '01 rotor now in the back of the truck. After several hours of cussing, screaming, threatening to kill both the design engineer and assembler of my bike (who the bloody heck decided to use 3/16" headed allen bolts THERE and with 9,000,000,000,00nm of torque on them none the less) I had the new rotor on. Yes, it was that bad. I ended up sledgehammering the old rotor assembly into pieces to get it off, but I digress. New rotor has almost zero lateral play (it surely has SOME but none I can detect) while the old one had probably 1/4". New brake pads, new rotor. No more rattle (except for the loose nut behind the handlebars) and no more irritated Cliff! WoooHoooo!!!!!! Moral of the story, if you are tired of the rattle...upgrade to the '00 or '01 caliper/rotor assembly. PS. Looking at the design of the '98 caliper I concur that rattling pads is an issue. Just so you know, you were RIGHT in what you were telling me...I just had a different setup than I thought I did. | ||
| Blake |
Dark Ninja: Great post! Glad to hear you were able to rid your M2 of the dreaded front brake rattle. Just one clarification request. By "lateral" you mean side to side (left to right) correct? Wow, 1/4" of play. Any idea what could have caused that? BTW, for the first time, I have seen a front rotor with significant radial play. So you are correct I'm must be pretty gentle on the front brake, though I would have never thought so; I've had the rear wheel off the ground more than once. Thanks again for the post. Blake (livingandlearningandridingandposting) | ||
| Dark_Ninja |
Blake, I wish I HAD an M2 to rid of brake rattle, but I did manage to elminate it from the S3T that I own! :D Oh well, I'll just have to buy a Firebolt as pennance for only owning two Buells...(Oh Santa!!! ) Yes, by lateral I mean side to side. I think what caused this is the silly bolt/washer setup holding the braking surface to the rim connection. Sorry, I just can't think of the right names for the parts in question. I hope you get the idea though. I just couldn't tighten those bolts up enough to get rid of the wobble the rotor was experiencing.I don't know HOW they wore out like that though, I am EASY on my bike. Only had the back tire up once, and that was a panic stop. I'm pretty sure my panic level was higher after the back tire came up than it was before that though! The new setup is rock solid and I have mucho more stopping power. In addition to no rattle! One interesting side effect though, the front wheel feels...TWITCHIER... since I changed the rotor. It's dramatic enough that I took the wheel assembly back apart to make sure I had everything back together right. I did, so it leaves me scratching my head. One thing I am thinking is that the new rotor is lighter than the old one and so I have less gyroscopic action due to less mass hanging off the tire. The only other theory I have is that since this rotor doesn 'slop' side to side that I don't have as much wobble in the front wheel. Since I'm not sure, do you have anyway to find out if the '98 rotor assembly was heavier than the '01 assembly? | ||
| Sparky |
DN & Blake, The original rotor carrier is aluminum on a 96 S1 & 98 S3 vs stainless for the '01 setup. Got a magnet? Check it! So I'm sure the original is lighter. That explains why the original rotors develop a rattle after a while. The constant jiggling of the rotor & drive pins wears grooves in the softer aluminum carrier. Sparky 96S1, 98S3 | ||
| Chuck |
Clifford, maybe having your front wheel assembly re-balanced, would help. | ||
| Dave |
 Can someone verify the orientation of the rear brake line guide for me? Straight to the rear being 6 o'clock, it was about at 4 and carving into the inner fender. I believe it should be at 6-7 o'clock placing the wound portion at about 4-5 . (There's a détente in the inner fender) Then again ... it could be totally off. DAve | ||
| Dave |
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| S2carl |
Hi all, Quick question. I noticed this past week that there is a little looseness in my back wheel. Just the slightest amount. If you grab the back of the wheel and try to move it side to side, it shifts a fraction of an inch, just enough to feel. Could the bearings be going bad at only 5400 miles on my S2? If it is the bearings, is there any special tools needed to remove the old bearings and insert the new? Thanks Carl | ||
| Aaron |
Carl: Can't comment on the condition of your bearings, but many folks have had rear bearings in particular spin in the hub. I personally change those bearings regularly, for insurance, even if they feel fine, and use a good high quality bearing (numbers at the top of the page). The shop manual describes using a slide hammer with a special collet to pull the old ones. A hammer and a drift works, too. Use a good seal driver to reinstall, so you can push only on the outer race. It's not that hard. AW | ||
| Aaron |
Hey, anyone know where I can buy my own wheel balancing stand? Getting tired of hiring this stuff out. AW | ||
| Hoser |
Aaron: "New age tool" is where we have been getting our wheel building equipment. Very nice tools !!! I will find you the address/phone number , they are based on Vancouver Island , you will not find better equipment , hand crafted , they make truing stands , balancing stands , a hydraulic press (bench model), fork seal/bushing drivers, etc. , etc. They may have a web page , I'm not sure but will search and report back. Jeff | ||
| Mark_In_Ireland |
Carl, Rear bearings seem to go quite quickly on the Buells.......mine lasted 7000 miles. Anyone know why they don't last very long....I've 740000 miles on my Commando, original bearings front and back!! Maybe they built them better in 1976. | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Aaron, Checkout Kowa tools (http://www.kowatools.com) or Handy Industries (don't have the URL handy, look in recent bike mags). Both have the same basic balance stand for $130'ish. I've got the Kowa one and love it. Has bearings for the axle, and well built, got it cheap as the paint isn't 100% so they sold it on clearance. Or do what I've done for years, use 2 3 foot long pieces of steel "L" chanel clamped down. Fidget for an hour + during setup and use, curse excessively and eventually buy a proper balance stand and get it done in 5 minutes! Eventually my time became worth something. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Tripper |
Irish_Mark; It's because the factory method of adjusting for 7/8 to 1 inch of belt slack with 10 lbs pressure applied leaves the belt too tight and binds up the rear suspension. AND I can prove it! | ||
| Hoser |
Tripper: Thats the old spec , now it's 1.5"-1.75" w/ 10lbs . Jeff | ||
| Tripper |
Thanks Hose, I hope the dealers know that. I have checked 2 bikes that had the recall shock installed recently and the belt bound up the suspension. I know that one of them had the gauge applied to it and was deemed properly adjusted. From now on I disconnect the shock and lift the swingarm through its entire range of motion, set belt so doesn't tighten. | ||
| V2win |
S2Carl, Do you have PM wheels? If so, the outside bearing on the belt side may be spinning in the wheel. Mine did. I called PM to discuss the best way to make repairs. They suggested I call Buell. I did. Buell replaced the wheel and bearings even thou my bike was way out of warranty. I had to pay $100. There is not much "meat" to hold that outside bearing. It just opened up and let the bearing rotate.( there was nothing wrong with the bearing). I have put about 20,000 miles on the new setup. Plan on changing bearings this winter when riding time has passed. | ||
| S2carl |
V2win, Nope, the regular white Marchesinis. Thanks all for the help. Looks like I might r+r the rear bearings to be on the safe side. Carl | ||
| Hoser |
Aaron: Wheel truing stands................. New Age Motorcycle Accessories Ltd. Manufacturing-Distributing P.O. Box 360 Errington B.C. Canada VOR 1V0 (604)248-4403 Martin Banner (cool old dude ) This is one of those mom & pop operations , they manufacture and distibute a variety of products of high quality. This list of products includes tools , shop equipment and reasonably priced heated vests. Martin is on the road a lot doing sales calls and hand delivering product so he may be difficult to contact. His knife edge roller balancing stands are nice to work with and have that hand crafted quality about them. Get one while you can , he may retire soon. Jeff | ||
| Aaron |
Thanks Jeff ... y'all have the same country code as us? I don't think I've ever called Canada before! I'll give'em a ring. AW | ||
| Doc5339 |
Could one of the guros please explain to me how the single disc front brake reduces unsprung weight. Dual-discs simply seem to make more sense in my mechanically un-enlightened mind. | ||
| Mikej |
I'm no guru, but simply put, one disk weighs less than two disks, one brake caliper weighs less than two brake calipers, one brake disk has less rotational gyroscopic effect than two disks. At least that's my unguruistic understanding of it. | ||
| Davet |
Aaron, I'm sure you've figured this out by now but as far as I know you guys have the same country code as us Canucks. (now if we could only get our dollar the same as yours!) | ||
| Blake |
Doc: What Mike said, plus the perimeter disk puts braking loads directly into the rim/tire/road instead of first through the hub and spokes, so the hub and spokes can be much lighter. Thus, the new XB9R front wheel assy is even mucho lighter than previous Buell single disk systems. | ||
| Court |
Aaron: If you talk to that guy and are sold, order me one and let me know how much. Court | ||
| Doc5339 |
Thanks Mike and Blake. It just never made sense to me that using less weight was worth the trade for less brakes. I can't really think of any other performance sport bikes that do not employ dual front brakes. | ||
| Mikej |
Doc, The single-disk front Buell brake setup isn't really "less" brake than a dual disk setup. Unless you race, or ride on the street at a race pace and aggressiveness, a dual disk setup doesn't gain you much. (donning my flamesuit). The 6-pot single caliper is all the brake 90%+ of us can really use. | ||
| S2carl |
Doc, Also remember that we run a 340mm rotor, where most dual disc setups run a pair of 320 mm rotors. The 20mm increase in diameter give a huge increase in swept area. Blake, Aaron, care to do the math to compare swept areas? While it might not give the same swept area, like MikeJ says, most of us never push the single disk to its limits on the street. Carl |
