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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » Buell x1 Lightning front cylinder firing intermittently and running rough « Previous Next »

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Rbrandsma
Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 09:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a 2000 buell lightning x1 and I parked it for about a week and it was running fine before that. then, on the way to my college, bout a 54 mile ride, it started to run rough and cough and lose power. now when i ride the rear cylinder gets warm faster. I've run a full tank through, changed the fuel filter and I have run lucas through. that helped for a while on one ride on the highway, but then it started to act up again when i got of the freeway and out of 5th. plugs and plug wires are good. I even tried switching the plugs and wires between the cylinders, no luck. if i unhook the front plug it will still idle, but if i unhook the rear plug i have to keep twisting the throttle to keep it running or it will die on idle quick. I am at a loss for ideas now
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 04:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Coil pack
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Two_seasons
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds like your 2000 Lightning X1 is going into "skip spark mode".

What that means is your rear cylinder Engine Temp Sensor is possibly flaking out. Mine did on the 2000 X1 Lightning I own. So I replaced the ETS and the O2 sensor at the same time. Took it immediately to Philly with no doubts.

The ECM uses six different sensors to monitor rider demands and changing engine conditions to determine the correct fuel and spark requirements. These sensors are:

Throttle Position (TP) Sensor
Cam Position (CMP) Sensor
Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor
Engine Temperature (ET) Sensor
Oxygen (O2) Sensor
Bank Angle Sensor (BAS)

http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/artikel.asp? guid=YXHFSC&aid=709&cid=210&s=&a=k

Best wishes for a quick fix
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Rbrandsma
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I opened the cps plate per other post and it was a little gummy, not fried or drouping tho, but could the rear cylinder ets cause the front to not always hit? Like I said, I pulled the plug and it seemed to be sparking normally out of the cylinder.
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Rbrandsma
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And where exactly would the ets be located on the bike?
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Two_seasons
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I forgot to welcome you to this site. As we say, "welcome to the madness that is BadWeb"!

When you go into "skip spark mode" your rear cylinder goes fire-fire-skip per the ECM command, repeats until the excessive heat is expelled via the raw gas that is part of the "skip", then out the exhaust. Usually this condition occurs in stop and go traffic. Last time it happened to me was in Chicago along Lake Shore Drive.

When you pulled the CPS cover, did it smell fried inside? If yes, you can order another one at an HD dealer. Give them the part # for an ECM controlled HD Sportster.

Regarding where is the ETS sensor, it's buried in the rocker box cover/plates on top. Right down from top center. It has a skinny wire that goes down to the sensor. You will need a socket with a slot cut in it so the wire isn't destroyed. 1/2" 3/8 drive Proto tool # 7716H. Very handy tool to have.

You should get a copy of ECMspy. You can buy the cable needed to go between the DTS plug and a laptop. That plug is either located at the head stem or under the seat. It has a rubber cap over the connector. A very useful tool for owners of ECM controlled Buell tubers. And get yourself a FSM-Field Service Manual for Buell 99/00 X1 Lightning.

You can figure this out! And when you do, report back and let us know what it was.

Best regards.
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Rbrandsma
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a diagnosis wire on the way right now, just waiting for it to come in the mail, and I think you might have misunderstood my initial post, my rear cyllinder is running fine, it will even idle with just the rear plug hooked up, it's the front that's running like garbage

(Message edited by Rbrandsma on February 12, 2017)
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Two_seasons
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It might just be a coil pack issue. Troubleshoot that by using the rear plug wire and plug into the front coil. That front coil will then fire the rear cylinder.

Hope that is it.
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Rbrandsma
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I may be just mistaken, but won't that just cause the cylinder to fire on the wrong stroke?
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Two_seasons
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2017 - 12:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Your are not actually firing the cylinder, that is my mistake for saying that.

All you should be doing is making sure you have spark out of both coils.

Oxygen
Gas
Spark

The CPS tells the ECM when to fire the coils.
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Rbrandsma
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2017 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I do have spark out of both, I have turned over the bike with the front plug out of the engine to test it and it will spark, and I tried what you said, I plugged the rear to the front coil and it ran, but like poop
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Rbrandsma
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2017 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well from what I've heard so far, I believe it might be the cps, does anyone know where I might be able to get one in a timely manner, I didn't mention it, but I'm an all weather biker, my Buell is my only ride
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2017 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you know somebody with an oscilloscope, you can test it pretty reliably. The waveform is a mess when the bike is running poorly, it's pretty evident.

The $80 handheld cheap scopes (DSO Nano) do just fine to measure it (and a lot of other vehicle related signals).
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Rbrandsma
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2017 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Would ecm spy show me this? And what would that' tell me?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 07:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ECM Spy might tell you if the CPS was totally shot, but if that was the case, the bike would not run at all. And that's not how they generally fail (at first).

The problem is the CPS is what tells the ECM where the crank is. So when the CPS is flaky, the ECM sits there oblivious. The other problem is that the CPS puts out an analog signal (0v through 5v or something) that the ECM interprets as a digital "on or off" (above 2.8 volts or below 2.8v). So you could have a pretty gnarly waveform coming off a failing CPS sensor, and the ECM would think "life is good" except the signal would be all wrong (coming at the wrong part of the waveform, coming twice per rotation, not quite hitting, etc).

Here is a nice thread with pictures I put up when I was chasing my bad CPS problem.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/712569.html
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Rbrandsma
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 11:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So i got ECMspy, still havent figured out why my connection dies when i start my bike and it wont reconnect till i kill it. but i did a tps reset and then i noticed if i let the bike idle, the front cylinder wont fire at all, i can even hold the exhaust pipe at the cylinder with my bare hand and its not hot, but after a short ride, and by twisting the throttle back and forth while riding, the front cylinder will randomly kick in and the exhaust pipe will warm up.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 03:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Check front injector wires for any insulation damage. Feel also for any hard lumpy spots under the injector wire insulation [caused by vibrations. Front injector could be the problem. I still would try New front plug, coil and plug wire ) Perform wiggle test to wires with bike at an idle with air box cover off
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 08:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yup, don't rule out a fouled plug.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 09:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Coils can fail under load
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Rbrandsma
Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 04:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had a buddy of mine look at it with me, (new set of eyes can always help). now i think i might have a short to the front cylinder from the fuel pump or wiring harness as i have figured out the front cylinder will fire on deceleration or when i snap the throttle shut quickly. I haven't been home for a few days, work and whatnot. I will update you guys on what I find when I return.
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