G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile

Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Electrical - Battery, Charg Sys, Lights, Switches, Sensors & Guages » QUIT RUNNING IN THIRD 2005-XB9 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 12:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

- 2005 xb9 Lightning city.
Bike died while driving in 3rd gear like I turned the key off. Got the "Chuck engine light" on the way down.
-Fuel pump doesnt run when key is switched on (Bought a new one, but it doesn't run)
-12V to the coil connector but fails the trigger signal test to the two outside wires on the coil connector.
-Voltage to first sensor starts with .7V and rises as I unplug them to a max of just under 3 V with all unplugged. -Speed, cam, Bank angle, inlet temp, & TPS. Is there another sensor? should have 5V with all unplugged. Wire does not short to ground.
-Fuel pump has around 12V but doesnt run unless I connect directly to battery. (If I jumper the ground side direct to good ground it runs constantly when key is turned on).
-checked ground wires with ohm meter and readings all at least .4 or better (Good)
-all grounds removed and frame and wire side all sanded with emory cloth.

Lots of symptoms but no answers! HELP!!!
-battery is one week old and cranks motor fast (220 cca). Cables clean and tight.
HELP!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you route the ECM bundle such that it touches the sharp edge of a battery terminal, it can get a microscopic nick in the insulation and randomly short out some lead from something or other and do some really weird stuff.

Maybe not your problem, but it happened to me, and it is easy to check, so it's worth a very close inspection.

More common on a Uly is a break in the wires where they come under the frame from the steering head. I suppose that could happen on a 9 also, but it would be unusual. The wires can break internally, you have to run them through your fingers to feel for a broken conductor.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Akbuell
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In addition to Reepi's checks, might do to check the 'safety' circuit.

On tubers, the ign grounds through the neutral switch if in neutral. Through the clutch switch if in gear and the clutch lever pulled in, or through the sidestand switch if in gear and the clutch lever out.
Tuber sidestand switches are a known fault problem.

Perhaps something similar here, as the bike just shut down?

Hope this helps, Dave
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 11:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And I wonder what the symptoms of a persistently bad bank angle sensor switch are? Probably another easy check, so it might be easier to just make sure it is working.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I really have not checked the safety circuit, so that is a good "to do" for tonight.

My harness missed the negative terminal but got done in by the shock reservoir. A not so microscopic rub through on two wires, the fuel pump ground and light green. The green one was about halfway gone and the Bn/y fuel pump ground not quite as bad. Thought that was the problem for sure, but after splicing and checking with an ohm meter it was no better.

Fuel pump doesn't run as stated above and I have less than 3V on the sensor circuit red/w wire with all sensors disconected. That wire tests good and does not short to ground as you would expect with only 3v.

Does this tell you anything?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tell me, when you turn the key on, then flip the kill switch to on, does the check engine light come on for a few seconds then go out?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Have not tried that, (I'm at work now). I have not noticed the check engine light come on when the key is on.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yea that check engine light for the first few seconds is your ECM powering up, no light usually means the ECM is not working. The ECM also controls the fuel pump, so no ECM, no pump.

The starter relay is not controlled by the ECM, so it is possible to have the engine crank all day but not fire because the ECM is not sending fuel/spark into it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The needles do their sweep thing, is that from the ECM or something in the cluster?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


wires

I fixed this and thought I was done 2 weeks ago!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a used ECM but it is no better? Possible I have two bad ECMs?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 01:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was thinking these 2 wires shorting against the shock reservoir killed the ECM, but then the second ECM I tried (fixed the wires first), didn't change anything. I know it is possible the second ECM could also be bad, but I just have a lot of questions and no answers.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 01:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

The needles do their sweep thing, is that from the ECM or something in the cluster?




That is in the cluster, it does that once it gets its main power (which is usually only when key is turned to on),

I doubt the ECM is dead, my guess is bad power/ground
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wish I still had my 05 9sx service manual with schematic (sold it with the bike).

Some quality time with the schematic is probably in order. I make a list of assertions that are easy to check in front of the schematic, then go over to the bike and work my way down the list checking them. Then look at what is wrong and see if it represents a problem with the bike, or a problem in my understanding of the schematic.

The fact that all those wires go right into the ECM under the seat, and can be measured "live" and connected with a paperclip through the back of the rubber seal on the connector, makes it pretty easy to test a LOT of things.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 02:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Grounds cleaned/checked for tightness, sub frame connection points cleaned and torqued. battery is new and I've been putting it on the charger to be sure. Getting 12V+ to ignition etc.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok, when I switch it on the check engine lite does not come on no matter what position the kill switch is in.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Akbuell
Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 02:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK, no ECM power would be the place to start.

First, if your system is anything like the one in my '08, turn the ign and stop/run switch on, and check for 12V at the data link connector. Gy wire(?) at pin 4?

The power goes from the batt to the rt handlebar switches to the fuses to the relay to pin 9 (gy wire) at the black connector to the ECM.

So, I would start at the ign, batt, and key switch fuse. Then confirm 12V on the w/bk wire to the ignition relay. Next, is the relay working correctly.

Hope this helps, Dave
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll try when I get home. I have switched and checked the relays, they seem fine. I will check at the places you noted and report back the result about 7PM west coast time if you are checking back. Thanks.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok, I have power 12.7v or so at the data link gy wire, and the same at pin 9. Also checked for short to ground from the gy wire with an ohm meter and found none. also did the wigglel and twist test bending the wire close to the position its in when connected, again nothing.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Akbuell
Posted on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 09:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hooray and Drat !

If the neutral light is on, that would appear to mean the 'safety' circuit can be considered good. And 12V at the data link and pin 9 - the grey wire - would seem to eliminate problems concerning the fuses and the relay.

Disclaimer: The 'roadmap' I gave you about which wires, colors, and pins are all from an '08 service manual. A half-brother, as it were, to your bike. It would do to use a wiring diagram specific to your bike and confirm the specifics.

Anyway, you have power to the ECM. No CEL or fuel pump tells me that the power is not getting out of the ECM to ground, or the ECM is failed internally. Since you have tried a different ECM, time to check each ground at the ECM plug. My '08 diagram shows pin 8, 16, 24, and 33 in the black connector.

Dave
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes,I think some wires are different, but I do have a wiring diagram for an 05. The grey wire is the same. There are only 3 grounds from the ECM on mine and they all check out.I see no hot wires bleeding to ground and no ground wires shorted to power. They all check out good on an ohm meter. I'm thinking its the ECM and the used one I got must be bad also. Makes sense that my original short between the bn/y and the green wire could have killed the ECM
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Akbuell
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2015 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Game, Set, and Match, it would seem.

Power to the ECM, ground wires from the ECM good, and no CEL. As rare as that is, it seems the ECM has failed internally. That you would have 2 borders on incredible.

But, it is what it is. If you have carefully followed the trouble shooting tree ref ECM failure, a new, or at least known good, ECM would be the next step, I believe.

Dave
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Akbuell
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK, one more thing to check. In looking at each pin to the ECM on my '08 diagram (YMMV) there is a dedicated ECM fuse.

The fuse is fed by a red wire - batt power, hot as long as the batt is connected - then through the fuse and on to a yellow wire to pin 17 in the black connector, listed as battery +.

Certainly worth a look.

Hope this helps, Dave
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

July4
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 02:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

After all this I am a little paranoid of installing my new "used" ECM! I've checked everything I can so all I can do is cross my fingers.
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration