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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » Codes 13 21 36 « Previous Next »

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Moarant
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2015 - 09:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Time for the yearly electrical misadventure. Suddenly started throwing codes all at once. Codes for O2 sensor, exhaust solenoid (xb12ss), and cooling fan. Given the lack of commonality here and the fact I have never had a mechanical issue on this bike (but 7 strange electrical ones thus far), I am going to make the leap and say I have an electrical malfunction (possible a ground). Thought I would see if anyone has had this combination before to narrow the search. Any experience with chasing these codes is welcome.

Thanks!
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2015 - 10:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How is the bike running
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Moarant
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2015 - 06:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks
Runs ok (mostly). Occasional hesitation in first gear which may or may not be related (30k miles on odometer). This is part of the reason I think it is electrical. If it were a bad O2 / exhaust, I would think it would have lost power, lost fuel mileage, or otherwise misbehave mechanically. Also, fans come on and run strong even though code is thrown and I can test and hear the exhaust valve move.

I will be spending tomorrow running down all the grounds / testing circuits (oh joy). Trick is finding where all three of these are connected (ground possibly?) So.... If anyone has had this happen to them .....

thanks
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 08:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Only in first year is the miss/Hesitation? Is it right at take off? So riding in any other gear there isn't a hesitation? Is this all the time or intermittent?
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Moarant
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 08:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello Gabby

Thanks. Hesitation is felt in 1st, but it is so slight I would normally write it off as ethanol effects. It probably happens at higher speeds but inertial hides it.

Spent 3 hours yesterday chasing every wire. O2 checked out. Observed and tested exhaust solenoid and it checked out. Did not pull fan out but did test voltage and it checked out. I'll drive it next week and see what happens.
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Akbuell
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Apples and oranges, but FWIW, on tubers, multiple fault codes are usually the result of a faulty engine temp sensor. They can go out of calibration or 'partially fail' without throwing a fault code. Could be something to check here.

Second thought would be to look for a common 'path' for the wiring associated with those items. The plugin at the ECM, any portion of the harness where those wires are together, ect. A loose connector?

Hope this helps, Dave
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wouldn't suspect the fuel unless its been sitting in the tank for a while.then I would agree.I would first reset the TPS etc...If you have any of the scan tools (SOFTWARE) or a scope (back pin the TPS and by moving the throttle full open to close look for any spikes(bad spot on the TPS (potentiometer) making the ecm get a false throttle off signal? Do make sure that your throttle body is clean on both sides of the air valve/butterfly. Check intake seals per service manual.A slight intake leak would only be notice at a slower speed.If you have the interactive exhaust make sure its adjusted per service manual.How did you check your O2 sensor
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Moarant
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2015 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks all:

No common wire path for all parts save from the grey 12 pin connector to ecm. O2 was fine. Fan was fine. Exhaust servo was fine to (at least it passed the buell service manual trouble shooting procedures). Do not have a buell scan tool. May be getting one soon.

TPS and / or intake seals sounds like they could be in play. Would affect O2 and (I presume) exhaust (if mix got way off). Problem I am trying to understand is how either would affect the fan.

Gabby: Checked O2 resistance (short test) and then voltage when running. Rich at idle (900 mv) and fluttering around 500 mv at 2000 rpm. Even saw a few spikes to 1 v near idle but I suspect that is just how the post mix / burn gasses exit the cylinder.


Reset codes (using the ignition on / off cycling method). Rain today. I'll see what it does this week. It does not die or leave me stranded - just flash the cel.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2015 - 09:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bosch 12014 is a car parts store replacement for your O2 sensor (for your info) I would spray the Grey connector going to the ecm on female sockets with Corrosion X.(red can) go to there website for info and purchase. for possibility of slight corrosion on the ECM connector ??? Causing false signals to ECM???
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK info off 06 uly manual/ A Low voltage signal (<0.41V) indicates the engine is running lean.

A high voltage signal (>0.56v) indicates engine running rich.

When the air/fuel mixture is ideal,approximately 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel,the voltage will be approximately 0.48V
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Once code 13 is detected the ecm will run in open loop.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Loose o2 sensor can cause fresh air into exhaust system the o2 sensor will read a lean condition causing system to go rich
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

AKbuell makes avoid hypothesis (engine temp sensor) I would go in that direction once intake and exhaust leaks are eliminated.
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Moarant
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 09:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello all:

The strangeness continues, but I think it is resolved. Thanks for the help.

I did check the O2 when running at temp and at 2000 rpm. About 0.5v but I suspect my meter update rate is slower than the signal changes (air mix changing with cylinder fire). 2000 rpm = 1000 pulses / sec. From side of engine fished a wrench onto 02 to check if it was loose. No movement but not in a position to test torque.

Inspected the connector and there is no sign of damage / wear. Rode bike a few times and intentionally idled the bike after to check fan. It seems fine.

No codes in 150+ miles. Here is the only thing I actually did. When checking everything over, I noted that both battery terminals were about 1/8 turn from full torque. Not loose enough to allow the contacts to move (wiggle) but just enough that a wrench would budge them. I have had issues before with the bike shaking the terminals off (engine died) so I figured I should fix that while there. When I put this battery in 3 months ago, I did not use lock tight the battery studs as I usually do.

Lock tight on battery posts and snugged connectors = no strange error codes. Strange that this worked, but this bike is known for odd electrical behavior. Maybe I am wrong and codes will come back..... But for the time I am riding with no issues. So... don't forget to check battery posts!

thanks again.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Remove battery connections clean thread area with brake clean or contact cleaner\now add a drop of blue locktite.Dielectric grease the cable and retighten the battery bolts.Helps me with similar issues.
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Moarant
Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2015 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Conclusion:

Thanks Gabby. Battery and hardware were < 3 moths old. no cleaning needed. no issues since locktite added. Odd that 1/8 turn would do that. posts were secure (would not move by hand) and good contact was observed. Must be a vibration frequency thing.

So. When you start seeing odd engine codes, break out the locktite!
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2015 - 11:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Agree all electrical problems so far about 32000 on bike 2009 ULY all stock.traded in my 06 two weeks after Harley pulled the plug on operations.
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Daddio
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 08:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Star" washers can be your battery's best friend.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 03:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks thats a great Idea
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My lead man in my shop says no to the star washers because they allow air under head of the bolt and can cause corrosion.??
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 03:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

He said GM told the Techs to remove the{star washers}from grounds etc..
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