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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » 2008 Uly rough running at low rpm « Previous Next »

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Marioavelar
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2014 - 08:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello you all!
I have just been referred to this forum by Skifast at advrider.

I am a new Bueller. Purchased my 2008 Uly only 2 months ago with 17.500km on the clock.

I am typing from Sao Paulo where I live.

Well, just to let you know specifically what's my ride:
2008 XB12x Ulysses running stock exhaust, K&N air filter and remaped ECM (stock ECM hardware but remaped).

Since the day I purchased the Uly I have already done some maintenance: new plugs, new air filter and cleaned fuel injectors. And yesterday I have changed its TPS and I'll now explain why.

The motorcycle always run very rough when I accelerate it just a little bit. To be more precise, it's rough when I open let's say 1% of the throttle. It's that time you wanna ride very calmly, maintaining say 20mph in 2nd gear. That's when engine behaves weird. It fails, it runs very rough. But if I open the throttle just a little bit more, engine pulls very strongly and the issue goes away.

Well, I tried to reset the TPS and it worked! Right after reseting I went for a ride and the bike was superb! Very smooth, just like it should be. But afterwards came back home and turned engine off. Went to bed and next morning went to work riding it and it was bad again. Same issue as before the TPS reset.

After that what did I conclude? TPS itself was the problem. So went for a new one, ordered from the stealership and put it in place. Same thing, first kilometers riding and bike was superb. Next morning same thing, the problem was back there.

I'm kind of lost, really don't know what else to do. Do you guys have any hint to help me?

Thank you all. Hope that I can also help you in the future when I get the knowledge. : )

Cheers.

Mario Avelar
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Akbuell
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The TPS is not the problem. When you do a reset, you are telling the ECU where zero is on the TPS. As you ride, the ECU 'listens' to the info sent by various sensors, then adjusts the air/fuel ratio to conform to the info it is getting. IF the bike has ever run well during your ownership, then one or more of the other systems is going/has gone bad.

Most likely a bad O2 sensor, or engine temp sensor. There may also be a problem with a clogged or leaking fuel injector. The only real way to know, without throwing parts at it, would be a scan with a Digitech at the dealer, or with something like Tunerpro.

Hope this helps, Dave
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Buellistic
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If the EXHAUST HEADER GASKET on rear head goes bad, it confuses the 02 sensor ...

A lot of 02 sensors have been replaced when it was the gasket causing the problem ...

EXHAUST SYSTEM ASSEMBLY Class 101, just PM me for a copy ...
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You said you cleaned your injectors.How did you do this? O2 sensor as mention above could be culprit.Make sure both sides of throttle body throttle plate is cleaned.Remove and clean {IAC)Idle air control stepper motor and its port make sure O Ring is good.Make sure interactive exhaust cable is adjusted.O2 sensor BOSCH 12014 $18.00 USD work great for me instead of the $75.00 stealerships price. Don't ever put dielectric grease on O2 wire connection.
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Marioavelar
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wow, lots of new information! Thanks!

Dave, since the first day the bike has this issue. Is there a way to find out if the injector is leaking? Another question, if injector was leaking, shouldn't the engine start be messed up? It starts up pretty quickly.
A bad engine temp sensor would make it behave like this at anytime? Or only when cold? It has the same behavior no matter what temperature engine is.
My mechanic has a scanner from Magnetti Marelli maybe, which he uses to zero the TPS and, according to him, everything looks fine at the scanner screen.
I have just purchased a new O2 sensor to give it a try, as it is quite a cheap part.

Buellistic, I'll talk to my mechanic about the exhaust header gasket, maybe he's got this spare part to give a try.

Gabby duck, actually I haven't done it myself. My mechanic did it. According to him, he took both injectors out and placed them into the ultrasound cleaning machine/solution.
I myself cleaned the throttle body plate, it's ok. I'll find out how to clean the IAC as you suggested. What's exactly is the interactive exhaust cable!? As mentioned above, just ordered a new O2 sensor from the stealership for 40 bucks.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2014 - 06:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

when you pull the four screws off the fake gas cover that says Buell before you get to your air filter its the cable that goes to the interactive exhaust electric motor.
never ever force this motor by hand.anyway theres an adjustment for cable adjustment.Your OEM exhaust has a valve to control back pressure etc..
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Marioavelar
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2014 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Gabby, didnt get what you meant before. Now I do. The first owner disabled the exhaust valve when he got the ECM remaped. Actually the device had some kind of malfunction and the mechanic recommended him to disable it.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2014 - 12:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/747086.html?1409273980
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Akbuell
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2014 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

First, be sure to get the service manual for your bike. That way you will be able to find such things as the interactive exhaust motor and cable, ect.

For my '08TT, the check for a leaking injector (page 4-32) is to remove the airbox cover and then the air filter cover, so you can look into the throttle body. Turn the key on for 2 sec, then off for 2 sec. Repeat 5 times. Open the throttle, and look into the intake for raw fuel. If an injector is leaking, you will see it.

When I had this issue on my X-1, the rear injector was leaking very slightly. That caused the rear cyl to be a touch rich. The O2 sensor picked up the rich condition, and reset the AFV to a low number, causing a miss at steady throttle.

The service manual is your friend. Hope this helps, Dave
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2014 - 07:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/634269.html

cleaning IAC
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Marioavelar
Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2014 - 04:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Gabby, many thanks.
I'll get a service manual for my bike asap. And also will try cleaning IAC the next couple of days.

There are 2 informations I forgot to let you guys know that might be relevant. First of all, when I purchased the bike it was burning headlight bulbs. My mechanic promptly said it was the voltage regulator going bad and got it changed for a new one. Besides burning bulbs, a bad VR could damage the injection system as well?

The other info is regarding the idle. I can see idle is something between 1000 and 1100 rpm. But sometimes it drops suddenly to something like 800rpm usually followed by a noise, a "pop", in the air filter assembly and than idle goes back to the 1000-1100 range.
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Marioavelar
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - 08:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dear guys, here I am again.

Well, after a while I managed to clean the IAC as advised by you. I also made a huge clean up in the TBI and admission manifold (the "continuation" after the TBI towards the engine). It was incredibly dirt, completely black. After cleaning the part is shinning again, with that aluminium color.

I also reset the TPS right after cleaning was done to ensure a proper adjustment. The result is that now the bike is running smoothly and I'm so happy because of this.

The only issue that persists, which I tought was linked to the rough running but now found it is not, is the idle it self. Got IAC out, cleaned it properly, put some synthetic grease on it and installed back. After running for a while, mainly on the highway, the idle is bad. It stays for say 2 seconds around 1100rpm and suddenly drops, when it drops a weird "pop" sound comes from the intake and idle goes back to the 1100 range. And every 2 or 3 seconds this cycle repeats.

Could it be a bad IAC?
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2014 - 09:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Inspect the spark plugs, then replace them with new plugs.What was the color of the old plugs. What cylinder were they in. Reset the TPS, reset adaptive fuel value. Crank let idle for no more than 10 minutes.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2014 - 08:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

other things to consider leaking intake seals,bad O2 sensor, IAC O ring leak or Iac malfunction.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2014 - 08:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MvohPCZazY&feature =youtu.be
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Marioavelar
Posted on Friday, December 19, 2014 - 05:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Gabby, hello!

I have already changed the spark plugs. The mechanic said the old ones were great, nothing bad could be assumed from the color on them.

I am not sure on how to reset adaptive fuel value. I do know how to reset the TPS and that's it. If that is relevant, I do have the USB cable to connect the bike to my notebook and also have the ECMSpy software.

Intake seals: will try to test following the video you posted.

O2 sensor: I have a brand new one here but I'm unable to have it changed at home, gotta take it to the mechanic.

IAC: I also should take it to the mechanic and ask him to replace it for a test.

Thanks.
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Gabby_duck
Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2015 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-Forum/Buell-Lightn ing-XB12S-XB12Ss-CityX-XB12Scg/Interactive-Exhaust -System-Problems
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Marioavelar
Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 09:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Guys hello. Here I am again.
Plenty of time has passed and in the meantime I was able to implement some suggestions you made.
What have I done so far:
- changed plugs
- changed sensors: speed (vss), engine revs, engine temp, O2, TPS.
- cleaned injectors and changed their orings

After changing VSS I noticed some improvement, felt the engine quite smoother. But unfortunately the issues still persist. Until 3000rpm bike is terrible, mainly when I try to mantain the speed, not making an acceleration. Say, it's impossible to keep it running at 60km/h, because engine fails, pops, an explosion-like sound comes from the throttle body/air filter.

Altough injectors have been cleaned, mechanic wasnt able to test them for leakage. I am trying to find someome ho has spare injectors so that I can test on my bike.

I have ecmspy, is there any diagnostic I can run that would give me a hint on what to look after? I really dont know what else to do.

The thing that looks weird to me is that right after resetting the TPS the bike gets perfect. Smooth, perfect, just like it should be always. But after a couple of minutes riding and it goed back to the rubbish-mode.

I appreciate any help you guys give.

Cheers
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Brother_in_buells
Posted on Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 06:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When cleaning the intake manifold did you had it removed? I guess so.
But how are the manifold gaskets?
Did you test for leaking?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd put a scope on the cam position sensor and look at that signal to see if it's good or not when the bike is running badly.
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Marioavelar
Posted on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I didnt have the intake manifold removed. It was cleaned with carburator cleaner or something like that. However, I have tested them for leaking spraying carb cleaner around the manifold while the engine was idling and they look like ok!
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Firemanjim
Posted on Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What is your AFV when you use ECM-Spy?
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Marioavelar
Posted on Monday, January 25, 2016 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I couldnt manage to make Ecmspy work after reinstalling windows. So I used TunerPro RT. The value for AFV from tunerpro was 100.00.
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Marioavelar
Posted on Monday, January 25, 2016 - 01:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not sure if this helps, but still on TunerPro I opened Parameter Tree -> Scalars -> AFV Maximum Value and AFV Minimum Value and they´re both showing a 100.00 value. I have the option to write any value in that line and click Save.
Is it showing that AFV is locked to the 100.00 value?
Attached you'll find the print screen.
TunerPro print
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