| Author | Message | ||
     Ezetom |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atp63gbd0XA Does anyone know what this noise is? I had both rocker box covers off last week, and the lifters (at least when cold) seem to leak down slowly, and then pump back up ok.. Anyone? Thanks! Tom | ||
| Kilroy |
could be any number of things. Sure sounds like a lifter. Do you have any oil in the bike? | ||
| Ezetom |
Yes, oil is good. I bought an oil pressure gauge, just need to buy a "T" fitting to install it.. Stay tuned... | ||
| Ezetom |
Ok so I installed the oil pressure gauge..The bike seems to have ZERO oil pressure when the oil is hot, at idle.. Although the oil light still stays off... I think I might have to buy a new oil pump... Any ideas? The bike seems to have lots of oil pressure with the oil cold.. -Tom | ||
| Mighty_mouse |
You could try a thicker oil first. Cheaper than buying a pump, gaskets. MM | ||
| Hogs |
What does your pressure gauge read when Cold and then when up to operating Temperatures??? And your gauge goes from 0 to what ? | ||
| Ezetom |
At fast idle when cold, I see about 30 psi.. When hot.. nadda. gauge is from jerzy customs, 60 psi. I'll try to take a video and post it tom | ||
| Andersonhdj |
Pressure is created by impedance to flow , while your oil is cold n thick there is a degree of resistance which you see on your gauge as pressure. When your oil is hot and thin , easier flow , lower pressure , specifically if something is worn enough to open clearances beyond normal. Could be a worn / damaged pump That noise sounds to me like a shot crankshaft. You could try fresh , good quality oil and filter but my guess is the damage is already at the repair stage. Whatever , it's tear-down time ! | ||
| Ezetom |
Ok I checked the cold oil pressure.. With the choke pulled full on, I see around 38 psi right after start, and after about 4 mins, with the choke half out, its about 30 psi.. There is a bit of marvel mystery oil in the oil tank, so that might be thinning the oil.. Im gonna check the gauge as well Keep you posted Tom | ||
| Shaggster |
I sure hope its not a crankshaft cause mine is making the exact same sound. I've had 4 different Harley mechanics over listening and working on it. new jims lifters and pushrods and oil pump drive gear. they think its an oil pump issue and possibly broken valve springs or bound springs cause I'm not getting enough oil to the top end and the noise is coming from the valve springs. we checked that with the rockerboxes off. I'm gonna double check and make sure there is enough clearance and the rocker arms aren't hitting the covers but they shouldn't or atleast I would hope not. all the work and parts have been done by certified Harley mechanics at the dealership. I have another set of complete heads with under 2500 miles on them that we are going to also try along with the new oil pump. Also is there any high volume oil pumps like the make for the twin cams and the big evos? I haven't had any luck in finding any. | ||
| Ezetom |
Shaggster, Do you know if they changed the gerotor gears in your oil pump as well? Im pretty sure its not a crank shaft knock,, if it was, Mine would have blown up months ago,, I ride it like its stolen  I read somewhere the suction line to the pump can collapse when its hot, not really sure how to check this, but I might just replace it.. Tom | ||
| Shaggster |
as far as I know the oil pump has never been touched. when we checked the pressure I was only getting about 5.5lbs with little to no change when raised the rpms. the service manual calls for more than that and 4-6lbs to open the ball check valve, so idk. all I do know is it is an oil delivery issue somewhere to initially cause lifter failure and topend being too dry. so I'm inclined to agree with them on it being the oil pump. I just find it really weird that over the years soooo many buell owners have had this same knocking or ticking sound and nowhere have I found or seen where anyone has found what the solution/culprit is.. I've gotten to the point that if these don't fix it i'll prolly just do what everyone else has and just chalk it up to a "Harley" noise and ride it. running out of "affordable parts" to throw at it to hunt down the solution. hell I have about $1500 into it this time around and that's just parts, thank god I have good friends who are Harley mechanics. | ||
| Andersonhdj |
Mine was making the exact same noise - it was the crank - front rod big end - scored cylinder wall and piston. I got lucky and picked up a crank , nearly new , for $125 delivered to my door 8000 miles away. An XB9 btw , the cranks do go , just not as frequently as 12's. There are at least 3 i have come to know of here in South Africa , BUT , i suspect bad maintenance / workmanship or severe abuse! Roller bearing cranks are unbelievably tough and can run with that sort of knock for hellava long time till the needles and cages dis-intergrate , then it's rod through casing time , along with smashed cylinders , pistons and a whole shitload of troubles. There is no engine Harley or otherwise , beyond a ragged diesel that should sound like that!! | ||
| Shaggster |
well I guess i'll findout tonight. we are replacing the oil pump, heads, valves and valve springs tonight. if the sound is still there I'm just gonna say efff it and ride it till it blows... lol or until winter and pull the motor and do a complete overhaul.. well atleast whats left to overhaul. I guess I never did mention mine is a 2000 x1, don't know if that makes a difference or not. | ||
| Andersonhdj |
It would be wiser and cheaper to do it now if the noise persists. Cranks can be rebuilt , broken casings are not so much fun , not to mention whatever else might go south in the process. Either way , good luck! Lets us know what you find! (Message edited by andersonhdj on July 02, 2014) | ||
| Shaggster |
well it wasn't the crackshaft or bad valve springs. that sound is the lifters hitting the rockerbox casing. if you have the stage 1 race kit with the different cams it can make the lifters hit. I took a dremel and filed the rough casting edge down and it sounds like a dream. so now I have an extra set of heads with valves and springs for sale.. lol | ||
| Kilroy |
if your lifters are hitting your rockerbox covers you have an entirely different problem!!!!Perhaps you mean rocker arms.... | ||
| Andersonhdj |
Glad to hear you got it sorted!! You did'nt mention the stage 1 kit though! | ||
| Shaggster |
yeah and meant the valve spring retainer cover hits not the lifters.. but I did also find with the lifters if you have the stage one kit you will want to upgrade to the Jim's lifters #1807 vs the stock ones, the Jim's ones have taller anti-rotation guides to commodate the cam lift where the stock ones don't and they bottom out the guides on the anti-rotation pins. Ezetom did any of my non-sense babbling help your situation? I'm trying to get some videos up on youtube to share with you guys. | ||
| Ezetom |
Hi Shaggster, I actually bought a new set of cams/lifters on ebay. (buell B grind) and Im planning on pulling things apart in the next few weeks.. I dont see how this noise has anything to do with the crank shaft, as it seems if there is decent oil pressure (> 20 psi) it seems to not make any racket... Im going to pull the oil pump apart as well, and measure the gears.. In the meantime, Amsoil 60 weight seems to be working | ||
| Shaggster |
you prolly don't need to teardown the oilpump if your getting the correct psi readings like that. what kind of cams and lifters did you get? here is the video of mine with the noise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL4kPcOBKLo and here it is after, don't mind the timing being off.. hadn't gotten that set right yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFEhrIx6oIU | ||
| Ezetom |
Hi Shaggster, so the noise is coming from the rocker arm hitting the inside of the valve cover? Im a tad confused... I still think Im gonna take the oil pump apart and measure it up.. Its a little concerning having basically no oil pressure when the bike is idling when hot! I just bought some stock B grind cams and stock lifters http://www.ebay.com/itm/181446902845?ssPageName=ST RK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 | ||
| Shaggster |
no not the rocker arm, the top cup of the valve springs is what was hitting on mine. what oil filter are you running? is it a Harley filter? cause I wasn't using a Harley one and when I put a manual pressure gauge on it was saying I had over 20 psi of oil pressure but I wasn't getting any oil to the top end. so basically the oil filter wasn't allowing the oil through so even tho my oil pump was bad and only flowing at 4.5-5.5 psi no matter the rpm, the oil pressure sensor was tricked into thinking the pressure was higher cause there was backpressure built up in the filter. maybe you have that going on too and your pump could be bad. | ||
| Ezetom |
The filter is an Amsoil unit. The pressure gauge is connected right beside the feed line, so whatever pressure it reads, is what the pump is putting out. Did you measure your oil pup for wear? could you see in the heads where the spring retainer was hitting? Tom | ||
| Shaggster |
yeah with the upper rockerbox cover off you could see them hitting. my oil pump had all kinds of scoring on the pump body and the gears. I was measuring mine at the oil pressure sensor. does the amsoil filter have the same micron rating as the Harley one? it might be creating back pressure. I had a mobil-1 on mine and it made my situation worse. so from now on I'm just gonna stick to the Harley ones. | ||
| Ezetom |
Not sure if it has the same rating.. I guess I can check. Does the pressure sensor tap sense the pressure downstream of the filter? Any idea if the pump from a blast is the same? I can pick one up cheap... | ||
| Shaggster |
26204-91a is the part number of the oil pump. I know its the same as the sportster 883 and 1200 but idk if its the same as the blast. 63812-90 is the oil filter I used, its a taller one the oil pump was $168 and the filter $9 new from the dealer. | ||
| Shaggster |
what are b grind cams anyway? | ||
| Rumble1 |
I have the same sound, but it's only from idle to about 2400 rpm. Then it's gone.I thought it was lifters because it stops at that rpm. | ||
| Shaggster |
rumble pull your rocker box off and check your top end oiling at idle & at or above 2400 rpm's. if your oil pump has scoring on the gears it will sometimes flow correctly at riding but not at idle, until the oil pump housing gets scored and then you will need a whole new pump. also check to see if your valve spring upper retainer cup his hitting anywhere on the lower rocker box cover. it could be either just the intake or exhaust side or both and if so it might be as easy as taking a dremel and smoothing down Harley's terrible rough casting inside there. |
