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Longhorn
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 12:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Was going for a ride yesterday about 1/2 hour into it I go around a corner and it just shuts off. Red check Eng. light comes on. So I pull over and set for a couple of minuets and it starts up and I go... for about a 1/4 mile and it does it again, this time no starting.20min. So I had read on a post that the plugs going into the ECM can get loose and cause things like this to happen. I wiggled the wires on the right side plug while holding the start button down and it started. But shut off again after a mile or 2. Did the same thing and it started and I made it home. The ECM and plugs were rapped in what looked like silver duck tape and the plugs seemed tight. Is that normal? I took it off and checked the plugs and wires they seemed fine. Maybe a bad wire? Any Ideas what caused the shut downs? I'm afraid to go anywhere and get stranded. Could it be a bad ECM? Also the fan did not come on like before. I live near the coast so the temp was only about 60.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 07:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bank Angle Sensor? A common area of problems that could cause your symptoms is an internally cracked wire in the bundle that comes down through the flyscreen and around the frame at the steering neck. You have to disect that wire bundle and run each wire through your fingers feeling for cracks in the internal conductor (but not necessarily the insulation) or chafe points that have rubbed through.

That may not be your problem, but it is probably only an hour or two to check, and it is a common enough failure that you might find a future problem before it happens anyway, so it probably isn't time wasted.
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Longhorn
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the info. Thats how I found the break in the red wire, the insalation was ok but the wire broken. I have seen a lot of posts about broken or disconected wires in the loom. You would think that they would have done a recall on the loom. The previous owner said that he had a recall on the angle sensor done in the shop. What does that sensor look like?

Is the fan controlled by the ECM or just a temp sensor? Where can I get a wiring diagram for my 06

So your saying that I could have a broken wire near one of the plugs going into the ECM, because that area is where I wiggled wires to get it to start again. Possibly not a bad ECM. Thanks for your help!
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had (on an XB9SX where I was sloppy about rerouting that wire bundle after swapping an ECM) a microscopic nick in the insulation for one of those wires. It would cause the check engine light to come on when I hit a bump just the right way.

It really was microscopic, I noted the wire was passing over a sharp metal edge (my fault) and flexed it the opposite way and I could just barely see it. Taped it over, routed it right, and had another 30k miles without a hiccup.

The fan is controlled by the ECM.

Some ECM's had cracking issues as well. They cracked where the ECM connector is attached to the ECM printed circuit board. People have had some success with removing the silicone (?) potting around where that connector is attached, resoldering those connections, and relocating the ECM to a place where the seat is not pressing on the connector. I believe there was a factory kludge to add a higher stand off to one end of the ECM mount to help as well.

I put a layer of camping sleep mat (dense 1/2 inch thick closed cell foam) double sided taped to the top of the body of my ECM (not the connector) as extra insurance. My thinking is that squshing the body is fine, and it keeps the seat away from the connector. It is pressure on the connector that will break those solder joints / traces.

People have posted pictures.

(Message edited by reepicheep on April 22, 2014)
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Longhorn
Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 03:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks, You have been most helpful!!
I love this bike, I just want to make it dependable.
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Al_lighton
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Assuming the fuse is good, power is applied to the fan when the key is on. The ECM turns on the fan by connecting the fan ground based on the head temp data.

The full wiring harness is documented in the service manual. You'd need 17206, here: http://americansportbike.com/newdir/Item/9092

If it isn't wiring, next time the problem occurs, swap your relays around to see if the problem moves (they're all identical). Relay failures are not uncommon at all.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I know why they connect fan to ground instead of V+ to fan also.

(It only took one design doing it the wrong way to see the problem clear as day. : ) )
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Longhorn
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 01:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the info. I checked my ECM and did not see any cracks like you had mentioned and checked the wires in that area around the plugs for any thing unusual, all looked ok. Mine does have that taller stand off like you mentioned on the front side of the ECM mounting screw. However I put some of the same 1/2" closed cell foam on mine like you did just in case.

I did go for a ride and and about 5 miles in had the check engine light came on and it cut out for a second but did not die. So I still have some issue with that problem. I have not checked out the wires in the loom up front by the neck where I fixed the red broken wire a couple of days ago, I just was looking for the red wire problem and did not check the other wires properly, so that will be my next move. So the Bank Angle Sensor IS up by the fly screen?

I did run the bike much harder on this ride so when I got home and shut it down the fan did come on, so I think it's ok. I was just babying it the other day when I first had the engine shutting down problem, because I was worried about making it home, plus it was very cool outside.

One another note (And I could not find any info on this on another thread.) Is there a rule of thumb for when you need to change the drive belt? Other than a obveous defect like fraying or cracking. I found nothing in the manuel about this!

Thanks Again for the helpful Info.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My BAS was relocated by a previous owner, and I think the recall moved it as well. I think it is in the tail section under the seat all the way up by the tail light.

Also, if I recall correctly, the BAS will cause the bike to shut down, and it won't restart until you "reboot" by turning off the ignition. But get somebody else to validate that, it's a dim memory of "I think I read that", not something I have first hand experience with.

Do you get backfires when it comes back online?

Fan on when parked after a moderate to hard ride is 100% normal.
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Longhorn
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No backfire, just one second cut out and it kept on purring...

Now that I think back to my ride a few days ago when the compleate shut downs first occured it had one of these one second cut outs 4 or 5 miles before it shut off and I had to pull over. I didn't ride as far yesterday as the other day as to not get stranded to far from home... So I'm just wondering if there is a loose conection in the ECM or plug when it gets warm or hot that causes a break in the circut, because the other day when I wiggled the wires on the right side plug on the ECM it would start back up.... I don't know!!

I have been on a couple of 1 to 2 hour rides in hi and lo temps and had no problems.

My 06 has 21k on it, and like I said I have owned it for about 3 weeks
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Longhorn
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I guess untill I get a wiring diagram of the ECM plugs, to narrow down which wires go where I am kind of spinning my wheels!!

I'll have to send off for a manuel.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 08:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting that there is no backfire. That suggests fuel and not ignition. If it was backfiring I'd say it sounds like a bad cam position sensor, but it's not. If it would shut down and stay down until you rebooted, I'd say it was bank angle sensor.

So I think you are right, it's some chafed wire somewhere, or a cracked ECM pin solder pad, or something else weird.
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Longhorn
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks again, you have been most helpful.

I guess I should have done more resurch before I got this thing. After reading or seeing the hundreds of posts and the MANY problems the 06 has I would have never got it. I have had other Harleys and never this kind of troubles, I just like to ride and not have to worry if some wire is about to cut lose on me.

I still have my 92 XR600 and it has never let me down, of course it is very basic, no battery or electronics. Just give it a kick and away you go.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You are lucky! I had three friends with three different XR-600's... Two of them had to rebuild them from the case up at 10k and 20k miles due to worn out pistons, the third had some kind of pretty scary tappy noise after a hot day of slow riding in the woods.

My XB's (both of them) have been more reliable than my Japanese bikes, for what that's worth.
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Longhorn
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry I did sound kind of bitchy didn't I. True I have put 2 pistons and several other parts in my XR. I know everything that is mechanical wairs out in time.

Just frustrated with the electrical gremlins! I'm in it for the long haul, I ordered my manuel last night and I WILL figure out whats going on! I just meant that I should have done my home work and checked things out more. I have seen several guys with 40k plus on there 06 Ulys. Just not seeing as many issues with later models.
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Longhorn
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I am wanting a Drummer so I may end up changing my ECM anyway. Especialy if it's the culprit.

Do you need to put locktite on the screws holding the chin guard on every time you remove it? I just changed oil and there were a couple missing. If so what type?
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Froggy
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 03:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yea the 06s are problematic with wiring issues, later years don't have the same issues, partly due some tweaks like a protective wiring harness guide on the steering neck.

That said, 40k miles is very easily possible out of any year XB, my 06 and 08 both are above that

Many of your symptoms are that of a damaged ECM, unfortunately you can't always visually tell there is damage to it. Your momentary loss of power with the CEL coming on is what happens when the ECM loses power for a moment, the CEL is it booting back up.

As for the chin fairing, I gave up on the two little screws on center piece, but as long as the ones holding the side pieces are on tight the whole thing won't go anywhere.
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Longhorn
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 04:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Froggy, Were the ECM's problematic or just easily damaged? I do have the protective guard on mine at the neck, I think. It takes 2- 5/16 bolts to take it off and the throttle cables go thru it also, correct? Is it worth while to zip ty places where the loom can bounce around and flex it? I don't mean places it is ment to move.
If I get a new ECM for the drummer exhaust I want to get, are the race ones more reliable? As you see I have orderd a manuel. Will it have discriptions for the many terms you all use that have been around Buells longer than myself, Such as CEL, ECM and so on?
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Daddio
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Longhorn--
CEL= Check Engine Light
ECM= Electronic Control Module (I think you figured that one out...)
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Froggy
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The ECM itself is fine, it is just the location on the Ulysses. On the Ulysses, the seat can flex and press down on the connectors, eventually causing them to break. Many Uly riders on here end up doing things like relocating the ECM to a different part of the bike (fits nicely between the battery and fusebox on 06/07), or building some kind of shield to protect the ECM. The issue is more pronounced on later bikes due to the thinner seats and thicker ECM, but it can happen just as easily on a 06. The factory ended up installing little stoppers to help prevent it from happening, but it is not enough.

As for the steering neck, they redesigned the wire guide, here is the newer one:



I believe the part number is Y1000.2AK and about $3.15, at least according to old posts.



The rest of the harness shouldn't be moving on its own much, there should be clips and ties to hold most of the wiring in place.

The Race ECM is physically identical to the stock one, just with different programming.

The manual doesn't have a list of terms, but it sometimes will mention an acronym and then tell you what it stands for in brackets. ECM and CEL are common automotive terms, nothing Buell specific. Some other common ones you will see referenced a lot on here are TPS - Throttle Position Sensor - O2 (Oxygen) Sensor, VSS - Vehicle Speed Sensor, and CPS - either Crank or Cam Position Sensor, depending on year.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 08:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I didn't think you sounded bitchy, just frustrated that a broken thing was broken. Nothing wrong with being frustrated about that.

The ECM damage can be invisible. If you have these kinds of issues, probably best to pull it, remove some potting where the connectors are soldered to the main board, and re-solder all the joints. I'll be happy to try it if you want to pay shipping both directions... I haven't done it before but it looks easy enough.

On my 07, I think I contributed to the wire chafing. My horn was rattling on the flyscreen, so i relocated it. Then I added a HID (with ballast) under there. Then I put in a heated grip controller. I used a lot of the "open" space in there to do it, and it ended up shortening the radius that wire bundle had for flexing whenever I would turn the bars.

After my cracked wire, I took the time to make sure that bundle had 100% of it's possible free space under there, which added quite a bit to the flex radius.
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Longhorn
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I do have the newer wire guide on my 06. Behind the top part of the guide is where I found the broken red wire that I repaired to fix my trip meters and clock from resetting every time I turned the key off.

My ECM is located between the Batt. and fusebox and appears to be low enough that the seat will never touch it.

I will pull my ECM and check it out this weekend. Is there much else that has gone wrong on the ECM's other than the conections breaking?

Does the repair manuel I ordered from American Sport Bike have good wiring diagrams?
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Teeps
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Since I had it bookmarked: Here's the link for Anatomy of a Broken ECM thread.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/726411.html?1334338510

Unfortunately some key photos are not there anymore.
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Longhorn
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks very helpful! I am learning more on how to use the info on this forum.
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Longhorn
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Opened up my ECM any found 3/4's of the pins questionable or unsoldered. Some very hard to see without some real magnification. Resolderd all the pins, resealed with silicone III and will reinstall and try to tuck it lower. should I secure it tightly or wrap it in foam and secure it??

Also when I go to restart will it be like a normal start up or is there some kind of resets that will need to happen first?

I unpluged it before so it should be ok I'm thinking, as long as I didn't screw it up soldering it.

Any thoughts before I reinstall it?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Plug it in and fire it up.
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Longhorn
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 12:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fired right up, will take it for a ride tomorrow. If this took care of my problems I will be very happy and proceed with the other mods I was planning to do before the you know what hit the fan. Thanks again to everyone who put in there 2 cents to kelp me out! ; )

About securing it what's the best plan for that do you think? I want it lower than it was stock, just zip tie it down and the loom also?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 08:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The taller post and a slice of high density foam on top of the ECM (but not the wires) seems to keep my seat from rubbing my wires.

I think I bent the bracket to point those wires more downward at some point as well.
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Longhorn
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 02:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks, will do!
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Longhorn
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 02:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Took about a 140 mile ride this afternoon, ran great the whole time not one problem. I am very happy with the repairs I made.

Thanks again to Reepicheep and others who made recommendations and input that resolved the problems I was having.

I am thankful for this discussion forum and the things I learn reading others posts.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 08:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sure! Others did all the hard work on this one.

These days, when I buy a bike, I am far less concerned about the bikes reliability than I am about the reliability of the community for that bike. All bikes have issues if you use them hard. A bike with a smart and engaged support community is pretty easy to keep running. A bike without one makes everything hard as you are forever doing primary research.
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Longhorn
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well Said!!
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