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Atc_no_more
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This issue began in June. When the 2008 Uly/XB12X is moved, the following items happen intermittently.
* speedo and tach needles sweep like the instrument panel self test at start up.
* both trip odometers reset to zero.
* clock resets to random time.
* odometer is not affected.
* instrument panel lamps are not affected.
I initially thought it happened only when I sat on the bike. But as I've paid closer attention, I see that it happens when there is bike movement, i.e. grabbing the handlebars to move it.
I'm thinking short, but I don't know where to start. I have the factory manual, factory parts catalog and the electrical diagnostics manual.
Can anyone give me some advice on where to start to trouble shoot this? Or refer me to a BadWeatherBikers thread with this similar issue? I've gotten great advice from Buell Motorcycle global community before. Thanks.
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Terrys1980
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Most likely a broken or chaffed wire in the harness by the steering neck. Also check and clean all grounds.

There are dozens of threads on broken wire and chaffing issues on here.
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Buell_bert
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds like the positive lead (wire) that goes to the reset button for the trip odometer is grounding somewhere. Intermittently that is.
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Atc_no_more
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Reset Happens

Ok,found a thread that talk about cramming a horn behind the windshield and it's impact on wiring. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/677026.html?1335360542
The thread and you, Terry said, look for chaffed or broken wire around the steering neck. After reading the thread, I started thinking about the potential impact on the wiring of the air horn compressor I put in there around June. Went behind the wind screen this morning.Did some wire wiggling. No impact. Looked carefully at the exposed wires leading into the instrument module. Found the fuel yel/red wire slightly chaffed. Couldn't tell if the wire was exposed. Put a little piece of electrical tape on and closed things up to see if that solved the problem. As soon as I pushed the Uly back to it's parking spot, reset happened.
Gonna check and clean grounds. But the FSM wiring diagram shows 5 grounds. I know there is one on the steering column, but what about the others. Is their locations in the FSM or some place else? And do I need to check all 5 ground or just the one on the column. It's closest to the instrument module.
Buell_bert-can you tell me which wire you are talking about reference a wire diagram color?
I'm still learning motorcycle electrical principles, troubleshooting and repair. I'm determined to eliminate this gremlin. Gonna keep trying with different tests and tools as I acquire the know how.
Gonna do some more wiggling and looking.
Thanks for the advice guys.
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Bdrag
Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2012 - 06:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sold my 09 a few months back. Get a call a week ago from the guy. Its doing EXACTLY what you discribed. Tack sweeps, trip craps out, his rpm's increass.

He took it to the dealer I traded it in at and their mechanic worked on it for 8 hours and found a broken wire, BROKEN COPPER, THE WIRE inside the wires insulation in the harness back behind the front cover plate? So no visual break. He basically started busting the wires apart and fingered them to find it? WOW!

I traded the bike off in October and NEVER had any issues in my 13K miles. TICKING TIME BOMB HERE? The bike has 15K now.

The guy says he is gonna trade the Buell in. Now he is scared its gonna happen on more wires. Says the harness is real tight in left turns.

BDRAG
Good luck, just wanted to pass that along.



(Message edited by bdrag on December 22, 2012)
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Atc_no_more
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 07:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

BDRAG-thanks for the info. It's good get repair info on my similar Uly issue. I haven't fixed it yet. Since it's an intermittent, it's on the back burner. Do you know specifically which wire was broken? Or would you give me the dealership name that did the repair and I'll try to contact the mechanic.
I like my Uly lots and want it to keep it fun running.
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Bdrag
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Atc_no_more

The dealer ship is European cycle sports, plano texas. 972-881-0774. Chad was the mechanic and there is also a thread I posted about this and the last reply there is a posting linking a thread here about the wires and where they break.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/701474.html?1356025920

So read it first and then call Chad if need be. They will hate me for sicking you on them! AHahahaa. Good luck.

BDRAG

(Message edited by bdrag on December 23, 2012)
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Atc_no_more
Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bdrag,
I'll check out that thread you listed. I'll try to figure it out first.
As I said earlier in the thread, I'm low knowledge about electrical repair. This is my first intermittent wire issue, so it's hard for me to pin down. And there are so many broken wire opportunities in the steering head area.
Not sure how to do a wiggle test with a DVOM to isolate the wire in question.
Would like to have access/rent a breakout box and figure out how to use it to isolate the bad wire.
If I do call for Chad, I'll be diplomatic about it so they hopefully won't call in a drone strike on ya. But I'll let you know first...about the call, not a drone strike.
Thanks again. ATC_no_more
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Rays
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 07:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ATC_no_more, I suspect that you have a similar issue that was seen on the earlier 06's.
The instrument panel has power supplied to keep the clock and the trip meter data retained when the ignition is turned off. This is via pin 2 on the instrument connector. This wire is spliced with the two ignition switch power feeds and the wire going back to the Keyswitch fuse - I have circled that splice on the extract from the 2009 Uly circuit diagram below:



On my '06 this wire broke at the splice point but because this was covered with glue-filled heatshrink it held the wire so it provided a make/break contact when the handlebars were moved side to side. When this circuit is broken and remade with the ignition off the speedo and tacho needles 'sweep' so it is really obvious once you know what is going on behind the scenes.

I haven't seen the issue with my '09 XT (yet) and I would be surprised if Buell left the splice located where it was on the '06's - right at the point of maximum flex but it is relatively easy to check.
Here is a photo of the temporary repair I did on my '06 - it has remained functioning for the last 50,000miles so I haven't got around to making it a any more permanent.


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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 09:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The problem and fix is pretty common knowledge. It comes in two forms, first that broken splice, second just a broken wire.

My 07 did that with the internal break (also not that uncommon, and actually pretty easy to find if you put fingers to the wires). I went from "wonder what's wrong" to "fixed" in about 3 hours total, and at least one of those hours was taking the time to actually understand the schematic. I also lost some time as the kill switch pod was half crushed in an accident, and I had a spare on hand, and assumed the problem was there first.

I think to some degree it is self induced as well. I had stuffed a horn and HID circuit up in there, and changed the "free play" of that bundle from a good 8 inches to about 4 inches, so it was being bent much more every time I swung the bars.

It shouldn't be that hard to diagnose, unless it is presenting as a problem that is independent of bar movement. If you can get "something odd" to happen whenever you swing the bar to full lock, it's pretty obvious that the harness bundle around the triple tree is the place to start looking.
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Atc_no_more
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 04:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Rays-Thank you for the most excellent response, with photos and details. Iím feeling more confident about resolving this sweeping issue, especially since you had the exact same issue. Let me see if I understand your post correctly.
In your steering neck photo;
*The red wire going down from the splice is the key switch wire.
*The two red wires coming up out of the splice are the ignition switch wires.
*The red wire going down and looping back up from the splice is the wire that supplies the clock and trip meter via instrument panel connecter pin 2. This wire is the one that broke at the steering neck photo splice, but still made intermittent contact because of the glue filled heat shrink. Based on your photo, am I correct in assuming that your repair included a short length of red wire connected/spliced at the break point end of instrument panel connector pin 2 wire? And this now extended wire was connected/spliced to the original steering neck splice?
Another question-how was the repair connection/splice made? I canít tell by the photo if itís glued, soldered, crimped or whatnot.
Reepicheep ĖThanks for your ďeither orĒ problem determination.
I understand what you mean about self induced. I put an air horn compressor behind the wind shield before the sweeping issue started. Iím going to have to re-examine its impact.
Iíll let you all know what happens when I attempt this repair.
ATC_no_more
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Rays
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 04:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ATC_no_more, Reepicheep is correct in saying this was a pretty common problem with the Uly's but I don't think I have seen anyone report it on the later bikes so the issue may well be related to the horn 'stuffing'.
The basic issue you are chasing remains the same - the supply of +12v back-up voltage to the instrument panel. I have heard of someone here having an issue with an intermittent ground so make sure that you use the instrument ground as a reference (pin 13 - black) when taking measurements.

If the issue is the splice then this close-up of the 'as-found' splice on my '06 might help explain the repaired photo - hot glue still visible.



Your deductions from the repair photo were all correct - I added a small section of wire to the broken wire coming from the instrument cluster for stress relief, looped that back and soldered it to what was remaining of the compression splice. This was a 'quick & dirty' repair at the time but has held up well. If I ever had to redo this I would move the splice closer to the instrument panel to take the multi-wire join away from the real flex area,add in a section of wire and move the other join back 3 or 4 inches so there was no join right at the steering head area,


I'm not sure what the loom for the '08's & '09's is like but with the '06's the R/H blinker wires were spliced in a similar way (the group of brown wires seen just above and behind the repair). These also broke at one point on my '06 and this is the 'as-found condition of that splice:

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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 08:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The internal breaks are easy to find once you have the bundle split into individual wires, just flex them one by one while running them through your fingers. A broken internal wire will "crease" where one with unbroken copper will "flex". Kinda hard to explain, but you know it when you feel it. Picture it like trying to feel for a broken bone through the skin (but with less whimpering : ) ).
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Atc_no_more
Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 11:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok, I got to the the splice (circled in photo)and did extensive wiggle testing there. Could not get reset to happen. I also did wiggle test where the wires (circled in photo)go into the instrument panel behind the screen.



No reset happened.
I have not split the bundle and felt the wires yet.
Being an electrical rookie, I'm taking it slow and looking for your advise as I proceed. What should I be concluding at this point?... Splice is ok? or maybe not. Break in the speedo/bat pin 2 wire? Or possibly another issue like a ground wire/contact?
Here's another rookie question...The clock and trip meters reset (account intermittent open)when the problem occurs, but the odometer does not (thank goodness). Why does the odo stay correct?
Also circled the air horn compressor. Found that it did not impact the wire harness movement.
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Froggy
Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Here's another rookie question...The clock and trip meters reset (account intermittent open)when the problem occurs, but the odometer does not (thank goodness). Why does the odo stay correct?




The ODO is stored in a different type of memory than the clock and tripometer. If power is lost even momentarily, the data for the tripometer and clock is lost.

Think of it being similar to your desktop computer, if you pull the power while you are working on a document, anything you haven't saved is lost, but when you plug the computer back in, Windows is still there.

I'm sorry I can't help with your wiring issue, but if your only symptoms are the gauges and tripometer, you do indeed have an intermittent break somewhere. Maybe try doing the wiggle test while moving the handlebars left and right, I've seen breaks do things like only allow headlights on when pointed straight but not while turning.
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Atc_no_more
Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2013 - 06:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Look this over Scott_d.
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Scott_d
Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2013 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

AWESOME...Thanks a bunch.
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Nightbuell
Posted on Friday, November 22, 2013 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Let me bump this. I have a similar problem on my 06 XB12X.

I'll have to break open the console and get on this.

Thank you kindly for reporting this repair.

Mike
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Hugie03flhr
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2017 - 07:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You guys just saved me a lot of searching! My 09 has the the sweep and reset problem when I turn the wheel with the ignition off . I also have a right blinker that starts blinking very fast at random. So a slightly grounding wire would cause that too. So both problems you guys outlined appears to be something I need to tackle! Love this forum, THANKS!!!
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