| Author |
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Cameron
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 01:29 am: | 
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2009 Blast, battery was dead, put a charger on it then tried to jump it with my car. It started after 10 minutes of charging with car and ran for a minute or two but then died. It did this twice. Don't know anything about motorcycles so i don't know where to start. Anybody have any advice? |
Johneblast
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 08:03 am: |
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First of all, get yourself a charger for the battery. Jumping it with a car battery isn't good. It can be done in a pinch, but isn't good for the bike battery as the cranking amps are wrong. Check the coil out. The bike is too new for the stator to be bad, but one never knows. The plug may be bad. How many miles on it? The battery may be due for change as it has been three years since it possibly has been changed. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 08:35 am: |
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Just for clarity, jump starting off a car battery is OK (provided you hook the cables up correctly and don't accidentally weld anything).
But Johneblast isn't wrong, what is really bad is hooking a *running* car up to a bike to start it.
The problem is that a car alternator makes a LOT of electricity, and all modern cars have a field coil and voltage regulator built into the alternator. Meaning the car alternator will keep adding power to try and bring up the voltage to 13.8 (or whatever).
By itself, that's fine, its a good charging voltage for a battery (car or bike).
But a motorcycle voltage regulator is a shunt style regulator. It takes excess current and just dumps it to ground through the voltage regulator. The motorcycle voltage regulator was sized to safely shunt as much electricity as the motorcycle stator can ever produce, so the two are safe together.
But when you hook a running car and try and start a bike, the car alternator and voltage regulator is trying to bring the voltage up. The bike voltage regulator will dump current to ground to try and bring the voltage down. But the car alternator can produce WAY more current than the bike regulator can safely shunt. So it's just a matter of time before the bike regulator will die a brave but ultimately futile death fighting the cars alternator. It's just a matter of time.
Again though, jump starting the bike off a car that is NOT running should be fine if you are in a pinch. |
Johneblast
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 09:05 pm: |
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Thanks Reepicheep for the clarity. I've been known for being vague in my passing on of information. |
Cameron
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 11:06 pm: |
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okay, I got a battery tender and charged it overnight. the bike started and ran for a half block then died again. I couldn't get it started after that because the battery didn't have enough juice. The bike only has 58 miles on it so I don't have any idea what it could be. Next step would be to take the battery somewhere and/or get a new one. Any ideas after that? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 08:36 am: |
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No problem John... I heard the same thing you said for the longest time, and based on what I knew about charging systems called BS whenever I heard it.
When I finally figured out the connection to the shunt regulator (or more likely, somebody explained it to me, I forget which), I felt bad about spreading misinformation. I possibly nuked the VR on my 2000 M2 jumping it off a running car also.
So I feel the need to atone for my previous misinformation. 
quote:I couldn't get it started after that because the battery didn't have enough juice.
My guess (that is probably right, but should be checked) is that your stator is toast, and so is your battery. Any you might have nuked the voltage regulator as well.
All three failed together on the aforementioned M2 I had (though as stated, there is a good chance I murdered my VR jumping the bike from a running car. Or mabybe the VR was already dying.) |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 11:44 am: |
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A battery tender is a trickle charger, not a battery charger!
Go to a battery shop with old battery in hand, have them fully charge the battery, pick it up the next day and install.
If that doesn't work, buy a new battery with the load capacity to continue (with the existing battery tender helping overnight) while you continue to troubleshoot.
You may also have some junk in the carb, preventing adequate fuel flow. From your description of the problem, it starts, run for a short time, dies, and in some cases restarts and runs a little.
It's probably as simple as the battery and maybe even a carb cleaning. |
Cameron
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 - 09:13 pm: |
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Thanks for the info. The bike only has 58 miles on it so would it need a carb cleaning? It has been sitting for a long time (6 months or so) so would the fuel have gummed up the carb because of that?
If I did fry things by jumping it off my running car, is there a way to test the starter and/or the voltage regulator? If I change them out is there a good source for instructions on how to do this that anybody knows of? |
Cameron
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 - 09:14 pm: |
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Oh, and if I should clean the carb is there an easy way to do it or should I not mess with it and take it to a service center? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 - 09:58 pm: |
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6 months can foul a carb easily. Modern gas seems to go to varnish at the drop of a hat.
A blast carb is an easy one to do relative to some carbs, but cleaning carbs takes thought and patience. Not hard, but it takes some attention to detail.
If you get the bike running, and read the volts across the battery at idle and tell us what they are, we can make a good guess at what might be going on. Or at least be better able to tell you what to test next. |
Cameron
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 - 10:17 pm: |
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Cool thanks, I'll see if I can get it started |
Cameron
| | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2012 - 02:36 am: |
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So I went to NAPA and got a new battery (old one wouldn't charge to needed CCA), and drained the old fuel (6 months AT LEAST) & put new premium in. After a while of throttling it up and working everything through it got to a point where I could ride it for a mile or two. Still a bit rough and dies at idle but it seems to be getting better. Thanks for all the suggestions!
When I downshift though it seems the compression makes it sputter a bit, could this be just old fuel making it's way through or is this indication of another problem? It's only got 60 miles on it so it shouldn't be anything from years of use.
Is there any way to make the bike a smoother ride?
Thanks for the input! |
Bluzm2
| | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2012 - 10:51 am: |
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What Bill said above still holds true.
It sounds like your low speed circuit in your carb is clogged. That will have a BIG impact on how it runs. Especially since the Blasts were jetted lean from the factory.
This is a pretty easy fix, not a bit deal to pull the carb and clean it.
Lots of tutorials in the KV section.
One thin you may try is adding some SeaFoam to the tank. This MAY clean out the carb after a while.
It sounds like the pilot jet is partially clogged not completely or it would run much worse. You may get by with the Seafoam.
One more thing, if you have the carb apart, just rejet it and be done with it. It will run better anyway.
(Message edited by bluzm2 on March 31, 2012) |
Cameron
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2012 - 05:49 am: |
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Everything I see is for cleaning a carb on a 2001 bike. Should a 2009 with 60 miles on it really need cleaning and rejetting of the carburetor? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2012 - 08:41 am: |
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quote:Should a 2009 with 60 miles on it really need cleaning and rejetting of the carburetor?
Yup. In fact, a 2009 with 60 miles on it will almost certainly require cleaning and rejetting of the carburetor.
The rejetting is because the EPA rules for how the bike can be shipped have the bike running unreasonably lean.
The cleaning is because gas sitting in a carb will evaporate out, leaving a yellow or green varnish, that coats parts and plugs small openings. Modern fuel seems worse, I don't know why. But I've had carbs foul after sitting for less than 6 months. You can smell it as soon as you crack the bowl, instead of gas it smells like varnish.
If the bike was stored without gas in the carb, it might not need the carb cleaning. And it will run OK with the EPA mandated jetting, it will just run a lot better if you switch to what the motor really needs. |
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New Blast and can't start it. anybody offer help?