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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Electrical - Battery, Charg Sys, Lights, Switches, Sensors & Guages » Electrical Archives » Archive through April 06, 2001 « Previous Next »

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Ccryder
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe I'll be able to get some night shots later, but for now, even in bright sun, I've got some serious light, don't ya think?
HID+1100x
Neil S.
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Jmartz
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Being a cager most of the time and having ridden HD's with self cancelling signals for a long time I simply cannot remember to turn of my blinkers. I have removed all signaling equipment from my bike for safety resons as I don't want to become a statistic of the typical "car turning left in front of the motorcyclist".

Someone told me there is a flasher that will cease to flash after a predetermined number of times. Can anyone confirm this?
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Chrisg
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jmartz,
Check at www.kisantech.com. They have a product called the signal minder which shuts off the turn signals automatically after a programmable interval. I have one of their headlight and taillight modulators and am happy with the quality.
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Jmartz
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Xg...
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Yardbird
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Anybody know of common (simple) reasons why my '99S3T isn't charging the battery anymore? My Dealer replaced the shock a few weeks ago - love the shock, but lately the bike isn't charging the battery. I checked volts at the battery and it reads 12.3 regardless of rpm's.

Also, any ideas about an S1WL that has a fully charged battery, but still just says "click?" when I thumb the starter?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks..........Yardbird
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Fpostow97s3
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yardbird: On the S1W check the plug to the starter solenoid. You can see pics above in the topic for specific location. If this doesn't do it check the pos connection from the battery to the starter.

Just ideas. hope it helps.

Neil: Very nice setup for those PIAA 1000's. How did you mount them? Any construction shots?
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Airborne
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 07:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yardbird,
For the S1WL check to see if the Neg Batt. terminal is good tight also. A bad ground will make the bike go "click"
The life of a motorcycle battery is usually about a year and a half. Anything longer than that, just consider yourself lucky. Try a battery charger first and see if the battery holds the charge. If not get a new battery. Dirty, corroded terminals/wiring connections, moisture, road grime etc, is a bad thing. A can of electrical cleaner is a good thing. Check out radio shack for a spray can of this stuff. If you still have charging problems with a new battery check these items out.
For recharging problems: Check the Stator and Regulator with a multi-meter.
Locate the Stator plug wire on the bottom right side of motor near the Oil pump.
Check from one terminal to ground. No continuity is good. Zero Ohms is bad. Replace stator. Check across both terminals of stator for continuity. (just the opposite of before) 0.2-0.4 Ohms is good. If the resistance is lower the stator is damaged. "A bad thing".
Regulator: The voltage output should be 13.8 - 15 Volts DC measured across the battery when the bike is running. Here is the tricky part. The voltage will read around the 12 volt mark when idling. There will be a steady increase to the proper volt range when the motor is brought to 2000 RPMs Read the meter at 2000 RPMs for proper voltage anything outside of the 13.8-15 volts is bad. Change the regulator.
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4runner
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

All:

Have any X1 owners had problems with their voltage regulator. Mine took a crap and wondered if anyone might know WHY? Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks 4runner
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Yardbird
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 02:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the input guys, a night working in the garage tells me that I have a bad regulator on the S3 and a bad battery in the S1WL. Anyone know if regulators are a high fail item on these motors? Are they expensive? Also, the battery in the S1 - it's only 3 months old!!!!! It's the new one that comes in a kit from Buell. Do I have any recourse or do I just suck it up and chalk it up to "character".

Thanks.........JB
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4runner
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 08:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yardbird

I priced a regulator the other day for an X1 and it retails for about $90 from Buell. I had the same problem as you. I want to make sure that something else didn't cause the problem before I slap a new regulator on.

4runner
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4runner
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 08:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yardbird

I priced a regulator the other day for an X1 and it retails for about $90 from Buell. I had the same problem as you. I want to make sure that something else didn't cause the problem before I slap a new regulator on. Keep me posted.

4runner
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Yardbird
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 04:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll keep you posted, I found a regulator after lots of calling at Modesto Buell (Great people)

Cross your fingers.
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Yardbird
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 01:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It was the regulator. Pretty easy to replace - the charge wire that goes to a terminal block under the tank had a quick disconnect, it took 10 minutes to do the swap and verify that I'm chargin again!

Yardbird
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Travis
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2001 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Anyone have a X1/S1 headlight-fairing-dash, etc. that they would be willing to sell. I would like to try to convert the front of my S3 to the lightning style. My S3 is a 97 if it matters.

Or if you know what the cost would be from the dealership for the necessary parts, that could be helpful as well.

Thanks. Trav
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Rocketman
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2001 - 08:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Traviser :

Remember, the higher placed clock on the S1 is on the right, X1 left. Clocks match bikini fairing.

Here's a little tip for anyone interested. The S1 bikini fairing brackets are a tad crude. Swop 'em for the X1 variants as they have the headlamp bracket and fairing mount as one piece.

Rocket in England
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Travis
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2001 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I do remember, i only phrased like that 'cause I could go either way. Of course the pieces dont cirss cross, except for the brackets you mention.

Thanks for mention.
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Rocketman
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 04:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here's a pic of the X1 brackets installed on an S1

X1 bracket

Rocket in England
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

About 400 miles after I installed it, the speedo sensor looks like it died again. Sigh.

Anybody tried fussing with Buell about this? My labor is no big deal, and the cost is not terrible, but it's kinda annoying to get a replacement part and have it croak right away.

Also, anyone tried any replacement parts that may be a little more durable? I want to keep the stock speedo, I am just wondering if any other sensors would work. Anybody try taking the stock unit apart and seeing what is croaking and why? Maybe I'll take a crack at it tonight with the original factory unit...

Bill
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Jmartz
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 01:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

RP:

The angle on an X1 fly screen is slightly steeper (not as attractive) than on an S1. Are ther any mounting problems, you know such as, bending, filing, grinding or hole enlarging?

Jose
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Mikej
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bill,
The speedo sensor is a H-D part, same as used on the sportsters. Not a Buell issue really.

MikeJ (currently on my 3rd speedo sensor)
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Tripper
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Carbon wind screen and Carbon turn signals. The plot is coming into view slowly. What is wrong with those levers and bar-ends? Run out of money after the wheels and SSSArm? Come on Rocker, get that thing painted and let us see it!
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 02:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not a Buell issue????

Mine croaked, I plan on telling Buell about it. Seems like the speedo is a problematic item? Nothing serious or even very bothersome, but it is definitely a Buell issue that might need some attention.
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Mikej
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 09:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake,
What I meant by that is that the speedo sensor comes from harley, the engines are assembled by harley, the speedo sensor is the same one used in sportsters, Buell can't fix it, only Harley can fix the issue with the sensors going bad, all Buell can do is request or demand for them to do so. Maybe the next engine plant tour I go on I'll take my two dead sensors with me and ask everybody I see why the sensors go bad so often.

Question for anybody on the XL-list, how often do the Sportster speedo sensors go bad, ever??? If the Sportsters are not having the same problems with the speedo sensors as the Buells and Blasts are, then maybe the "problem" is political.

MikeJ (I'm starting to like the idea of stickers on the tank showing all the parts that have gone bad.)
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José_Quiñones
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a Sportster and a Buell. I have 29,000 miles on the Sportster, about 12,000 on the Buell. I say about 12,000 miles because I have had two speedo sensors go bad on the Buell, none on the sportster.

Unless HD is purposely giving Buell the "substandard" sensors, my guess is that something in the Buell electrical system is causing the sensors to go bad. I do know that the voltage regulators for Buells and Sportys are different part numbers.

I'm guessing that the sensors are getting a voltage spike at some point, which fries them. I just got a new voltage regulator at the same time I got the sensor, so we'll see how long it lasts.

I think I'll win people over on this sticker idea, eventually.
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Doncasto
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

MikeJ:

Your parts failure sticker idea would leave some of us with no origonal tank paint showing. I'd pretty much use the whole surface of the Manta tank with hard bag latch and right lower fairing incidents. Perhaps the sticker backgrounds could be made available in the stock Buell colors to at least maintain a mininal resemblence to the bike's delivery color. Make mine Billet Silver, please.

Don
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Jmartz
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 02:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Don:

I know you wre collecting statistics regarding Shock failures. How many data points did you collect and how many failures did you encounter? I am proud to say that my bike has none of the recalls and I'm not dead yet. I also ride w/o a helmet as much as I can.

My state allows me to kill my unnborn child but if I go down the road w/o a lid I can be fined $1000 and inmprisoned for 1 year.

Jose
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Doncasto
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jose:

The last count of leaky Showas was at 42 units with full documentation. When the shocks began breaking the whole leaking issue became mute and I let the collection effort lapse. I am encouraged to see that Buell may have resolved both issues with the liberal replacement policy on the new beefier Showa, I hope.

Don
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Sparky
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jose,

Just a thought from one who has seen a few electronic parts fail environmental tests. Could it be mechanical G force spikes from vibration due to the Buell's Uniplanar mounted engine that is killing these sensors? Just think, the solid mounted engine in Sportsters have the entire sprung mass of the bike to absorb these spikes, whereas on the Buell the engine/trans vibrates merrily away, constrained only by the front rubber mount.

Also Buell riders likely tend to rev their engines more so than Sportster owners, right? Thus putting the sensors through much more of a vibe test. That might explain your experience, "... none on the sportster."

Sparky
96S1, 98S3
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I am still digging into this, but I have some theories.

Harley definitely builds these things, but probably just molds plastic around an existing part from some other vendor.

If you look closely at the end of the sensor, you will see a part number (not the harley number), with a funny stylized A leading it... This looks like the original manufacturere of the sensor. I don't recognize the logo, and can't find the part number referenced anywhere (did not look super hard).

You will also notice the thing is VERY magnetic. That makes me reasonably sure that it is a magnetic proximity sensor... which is basically a permament magnet surrounded by a coil that sits next to a rotating gear. The coil is biased with a voltage, and as each tooth pases the magnet, the field momentarily distorts (reverses?).

It is hard to break a sealed coil and magnet with a voltage spike or with vibration, so I don't think that's what's nuking them. Unless there is some sort of FET amplifier built into the module (which is certianly possible). But I doubt they would do that, as it would be a bad place to put one (lots of vibration and heat). Plus, the wires going up the harness are twisted, which is generally done for electrical noise reduction, which would not be necessary if the amplification was done in the module by the FET.

Besides, the sensors work great on the sportster.

So, here is my hypothesis. I don't think it's the sensor. Aren't the speedo's different between the Buell and the Sportster? This is where I would put the amplifier and frequency counter if I were building the thing.... what if the Buell unit is "fussier" then the Harley unit (or perhaps subject to more electrical noise from the engine)?

I will try and throw a scope on the thing this weekend and see what is going on. If it is just a fussy speedo, then it should be straightforward to put in some passive or active signal conditioning to clean up the signal between the tranmission and the speedo.

I have a ton of stuff I have to do this weekend, but this is awfull good "bill bait", so I suspect I will get around to it. Wonder how I will get the back wheel turning whilst hooked to my scope... I knew I should have gotten a portable o-scope :) Either that, or a track stand....

Bill
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Blake
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

MikeJ:

If I were a program manager for Buell or in charge of Buell QA, and if the speedo sensor turns out to be a prevalent or systemic problem, I would absolutely not wait for HD to solve my product lines' problem.

Rather, I would initiate and direct a formal investigation to ascertain the reason for the failures, collect information on possible solutions, then choose, verify, and implement, the optimum solution. If I found that the sensors simply have a high defect rate or cannot perform in specified environments, then sure, you bet I'd approach HD.

Chances are however, the problem could be outside the sensor itself; it could be installation related (like over-torqueing?) or as Sparky suggests due to excessive vibes, or as Bill hypothesizes due to the speedo.

Plus... Are you implying that the engine comes with the sensor pre-installed? Not likely.

I apologize if too much of my true arse-olish self is coming through. Poor management is one thing that really trips my trigger.

oao,

Blake (the nicest a-ole you'll ever get pissed at)
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