| Author | Message | ||
     Buckinfubba |
If you have questions pose them here for now on. Thats what blake I think is saying so here ya go.  | ||
| Buckinfubba |
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| Buckinfubba |
 <!--Text--> drummer vs stock edited by buckinfubba on March 05, 2004 | ||
| Buckinfubba |
If you have more questions email me at buckinfubba@hotmail.com or call 704-872-3883 Brian Tilley hd/buell | ||
| Buckinfubba |
the dynos keep disappearing  <!--Text--> drummer vs race kit edited by buckinfubba on March 05, 2004 | ||
| Buckinfubba |
drummer vs D&D in time frame  | ||
| Buckinfubba |
drummer vs D&D  | ||
| Buckinfubba |
drummer on a xb12 vs stock  | ||
| Buckinfubba |
drummer on opto's xb12s  | ||
| Buellny |
I've been thinking about getting the D&D this spring, but now you have me thinking about the Drummer. I really like the D&D with the dual exhaust. The drummer has just that one small outlet(It's like comparing a Geo Metro exhaust pipe to my Z28). Why is that? We are raised to think that bigger holes (talking about pipes here NOT girls) are better than smaller ones. I know that if you go too big you'll lose back pressure, which means you'll lose bottom end, but gain on top end in general. What can anyone tell me about this? I'm not worried just about performance when it comes to pipes. I have the race kit on my 03 Buell Lightning XB9SL and I'm very disappointed in the sound. One reason I was going to get the D&D is because I'm told it's LOUDER than the Buell race pipe, right? How about the Drummer? How does it sound compared to the Buell race pipe and the D&D pipe?...louder? What's the price of the Drummer? How do I get one? Now I'm really unsure of which to get...D&D or Drummer????!!! | ||
| Buellny |
do you have a picture of a dyno chart showing a run through all of the gears of the drummer vs. the D&D? | ||
| Fullpower |
ok we can talk drummer here. | ||
| Fullpower |
buell ny drummer sound is very cool. low tone rumbly sound at low rpm, building to a gowly roar at redline. sounds just right to me. | ||
| Opto |
Buellny, I don't think the Drummer sounds any louder than the race pipe, just better. The size of the outlet is tuned for max performance. In the pic in the 1st post is an XB12 muffler beside a Drummer, the 12 muffler outlet is shrouded to make it look big, the actual real outlet inner diameter is approx 48mm, the same measurement on the Drummer is approx 52mm. The Drummer is available from: check the 4th post in this thread. Price may vary with customers attitude  | ||
| Opto |
XB12 with stock ecm: Myself and FP are the only ones I know of to run an XB12 with Drummer and stock ecm, I'm very happy with the performance and I think FP is too (he's waiting for access to a TPS reset to fit the race ecm). I know of 2 others running the XB12 with Drummer and race ecm, they are reporting no problems. Since I can't fault my 12 with stock ecm and Drummer, then what's more fuel from a race ecm going to do except make it run rich? I appreciate that it's well accepted that XB9's need the race ecm to run a Drummer, but with the 12's it is new territory. And from the XB12 dyno chart above delivering just a few more horsepower (plus smoother curves) I can see that it's quite feasible for the stock ecm to deliver that extra percentage of fuel. Also, the same Drummer is fitted to the 9 and the 12, for the 9 this is a much freer breathing pipe than for the larger displacement 12, again making it more feasible to use a stock ecm on the 12. I'd really like to hear from someone who has also run both stock and race ecm's on a 12. Not hearsay, not "this is what should work", just some straight common-sense practical "this is what I fitted and this was the result". BTW thanks Brian and Kev - it is an excellent achievement, the Drummer. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Buellny the price is $350 with exchange of your core pipe . I don't have dynos with all gear runs, what it would show those is probably about the same same numbers maybe a little Higher. Bigger ain't always better when you are talking about velocity of the air. The drummer was designed on a an xb9 engine and it works well on the 12 also. it weighs 1.6lbs less than the D&D its not as loud as the D&D but its is a good low tone rumble. one description that I like is...It gave an american bike an Italian accent. thanks | ||
| Noface |
Buellny, I get in trouble every time someone mentions the D&D/Drummer in the same paragraph. I've got the D&D. The D&D performance is outstanding. The hole in the above dyno chart isn't as big as it looks, and if you're riding anything comapred to aggressive, your not in the holoe anyway. The D&D seems to be set up as a midrange and up pipe. The hit is awesome from 3.5 to redline. The D&D sound is a lot louder than the Drummer. Defining a lot is difficult. If you've heard a Force pipe on a Buell, and a Race Kit can on a Buell. Put the D&D at the upper end between the two, and the Drummer closer to the race kit. Did that make sense? The D&D seems to me to have a more hollow, big block chevy with a huge cam , 3.5" exhaust, and Flowmaster muff's. Wicked cool. BTW, there's no packing in the D&D to worry about burning out, replacing, etc. The Drummer has some super tuff packing, in that you don't need to worry about that either, but there's reports here that the sound changes after it get's burned in. All reports were for the better  The D&D costs $200 more. They're both goooood. Just buy the one YOU want, not what everybody else thinks you should get. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
no face thats a good description...thanks no here comes the but. the comment on the D&D being a Midrange and up pipe. It is a midrange pipe for sure but if you look at the dyno it does kinda die off at 5.5k compared to the drummer. from 5.5k to 7.5 the D&D only gains about 6 hp where the drummer gains about 12hp. but other than that I'd say your right on about the sound and such and that some should buy what they want. so as always don't take any off my comments as attacking or any thing. | ||
| Buellny |
Noface, Thanks a lot. What you said made perfect sense. | ||
| Opto |
Just an update on my earlier post re XB12 with Drummer and stock ecm. The dealer has given the setup the all clear including running the K&N, ie it isnt running lean or anything wrong. Brian is positive it will run better with the race ecm, and I don't doubt that, maybe I got a bad one and this caused my grief. One positive to come out of this is that for those with a 12 who are short of cash to buy the whole lot (Drummer, race ecm and K&N) in one go, might be able to afford one item at a time and it should run OK. But check with Brian first to be sure. | ||
| Bads1 |
Opto thats not true bud.Mine fouled a plug running the stoch ecm like you are now. | ||
| Johncr250 |
I run a Jardine Muffler on my XB12R. Fit and finish are perfect with stainless steel hardware. It feels like its down alittle on torque just off idle, but after 2500rpm hold on. Pulls much harder in the midrange and on top. The sounds is very deep, comparable to a D&D. Definately more of a midrange to top end pipe. The best part they only cost $235.00. | ||
| Opto |
Opto thats not true bud.Mine fouled a plug running the stoch ecm like you are now. Bads1, as Bigbird said in the How Does This Imply To Buell? thread in regards to the ecm "and in one case I saw a new xb12 that had not learned yet foul a plug because people kept starting it and letting it idle without taking it out and letting it learn." John, is the Jardine as loud as the D&D or just a deep sound? Are you running stock or race ecm? | ||
| Johncr250 |
The Jardine is about as loud as the D&D , but sounds very different, even idling. It doesn`t have the typical HD or Buell sound (potato), it sounds just like my friends Ducati S4. | ||
| Johncr250 |
I`m running stock ecm. I`m sure it would run even harder with the race ecm, but i`m planning some motor mod`s too and i need a ecm thats adjustable. I`m looking to install a PCIII or TFI box. | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
I have to agree with Johncr250's post above. I'm in love with my Jardine! Can't beat the finish. Only one problem. The chin fairing replacement mounts are aluminum and the damn thing rattled them in half. Jardine sent out a steel replacement for the left side and said their working on one for the right. Just wanted to throw that out for those of you that are contemplating buying one. Call the factory and get the steel mounts so you don't run over your chin fairing when it falls off! John, call and get them dude, mine snapped, and the factory sent the replacements second day with a T-shirt. Great service. The Jardine has a great low resonating thump to it. IMHO, poor performance in the low range, but above three grand, HOLD ON! Charlieboy Sorry for the edit but I have to be fair to Buckinfubba and relate my post to his thread. I made my post for the sake of verification and comparison. I enjoy my Jardine, but when it comes down to it, what was said earlier applies. Buy what you want. For me finish was more important, oh, and my dealer had one in stock edited by charlieboy6649 on March 15, 2004 edited by charlieboy6649 on March 15, 2004 | ||
| Al_lighton |
A few of the American Sport Bike customers have bought Jardine mufflers for their XB's. The aluminum brackets have started failing, and Jardine is converting them to steel on their nickel. Another customer had his end cap blow out in a failure mode that makes no sense to me or Jardine, but it happened. A new muffler is on the way to him right now. So far, their customer service is passing muster. Jardine never made tuber pipes, so they are cutting their teeth on the XBs and are learning how hard Buells can be on exhaust systems/brackets. But I'm encouraged by their response so far, they are earning the business. It's a nice looking pipe. Al at American Sport Bike | ||
| Buckinfubba |
 and heres the dyno for the Jardine on a 12, similar to the D&D.just so you can see I ain't afraid of comparrison. The drummer retains all the jack points and also not one failure yet. and this from 2 ding bats that had an Idea and thats all. Yes buy what you like. but when you want to compare , don't use an ass dyno comparo. Looking at the dyno you can see why it feels real strong. Mainly because it lost so much to begin with. do the math thats about 10 or 11 ft/lbs loss. it doesn't catch up to the drummer til a lil past 4k rpm. But as said a million times...buy what you like. me and kevin made a performance pipe ...not a decoration. I will stand by that all day long and that smooth power will win out on the street everyday. man imagine what we could do for the buell community if we were a big company with money. Probably nothing , the others haven't yet. I wish they would tho. That is their business right Brian lil drummer boy buckinfubba@hotmail.com edited by buckinfubba on March 16, 2004 | ||
| Johncr250 |
You definately give up some lowend torque below 3000rpm with the Jardine as compared to the Drummer or D&D. But the way I ride the rpm`s are never below 3000 anyway. Even on the highway my XB is reving atleast 3500rpm`s. Who rides their XB around at 2000rpm`s? So I was happy to trade off some lowend losses for increased TQ and HP above 3000rpm. So i agree with what everyone has said, "Buy what you like for the riding that you do." You can`t go wrong with any or these pipes. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
the D&D power curve looks very similar to the jardine except the jardine stays good on the top end where the D&D starts to fall off. where the lowend dip would get ya , would be riding on a very tight twisty road, such as we have here in NC. you could do it without having to downshift as much. Plus everytime you leave a stop light altho if we are riding on the right roads we don't see those things anyways |
