| Author | Message | ||
     Jerome |
Captlusk : your symptoms make me think that you have a problem with your choke. I would check that first before disassembling and cleaning everything. Check that the choke plunger moves freely when you push and pull the choke cable. A rubber O-ring getting dry with time is enough to disturb the free movement of such part. | ||
| Jerome |
Also, check if you have any fuel fouling through the tube exiting the bottom part of the carb. This would indicate a leaky float needle, bringing the same kind of symptoms. | ||
| Captlusk |
Thanks guys, this is the kind of detailed information I was looking for. I appreciate the help. | ||
| S2no1 |
Captlusk, Be careful with the Berrymans, it is very powerful stuff and will dissolve something you don't want to dissolve. It's also toxic and explosive. Read and follow the precautions on the label. Working on carbs is detailed work, but very rewarding. Arvel | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Captlusk and all You MUST wear eye protection when using Berrymans. You do NOT want to get this stuff in your eyes even in duluted form. Even if you have water near by, by the time you rinse your eyes out, you already have a chem burn. Much easier to just wear safety glasses or goggles. Particularly when using compressed air. My two cents. BluzM2 | ||
| Troop |
The Yodude is $250./shipped. By appearance it comes with a chromed breather set-up vs. the plastic elbows/hoses of the basic Sidewinder. Maybe this is why it cost the extra $$. Not many people responding to useage tho. Hmmm ?? | ||
| Joepitz |
Message for José Quiñones, (or anyone else who would like to comment) Hey Jose, I would like to install an O2 sensor and an air fuel meter on my 97 M2 in order assist me in making some jetting changes. I plan on mounting a single wire O2 sensor very close to the exhaust port and was wondering if it mattered what cylinder I mounted the sensor to. Any comments or suggestions would be most helpful. Thanks | ||
| Bored |
The problem with some people is that they have access to tools. This isn't necesarily bad, because these tools, in the right, knowledgeable hands, can accomplish great things. The dilema becomes apparent when the person weilding said tools doesn't have a brain in his head, and destroys things. I raise my hand to be acknowledged. Chuck said "The trickiest thing is removing the plug that covers the pilot screw (located under the carb just outboard of the float bowl) It has to be drilled through." I read: located under the carb just outboard of the FLOAT. So the carb in on it's head, bowl off, float flapping away merrily as I jostle and jiggle the contraption. I take a gander at it's underside and see some tall projection with a screw in it just outboard of the FLOAT BOWL. "That can't be it. No plug" I thought to my dense self. I go back towards the float... just outboard of the float, and see a brass plug. "This must be what everyone is talking about". So I drilled and drilled and boy-is-this-a-long-plug and finally I got the sucker out. Turned the carb over to clear the shavings, flip it back and... well, there is no screw there, of course, because I was now looking at the transfer ports. Now (emphasis on the NOW) I look in my manual and see my blunder. I've had a long day, I'm tired, and I'm posting this question now so I can read the answers as I goof off at work tomorrow: Can I order a new plug? If so, what is it? I'm too embarassed to call my parts guy and explain it to him. At least I can be somewhat anonymous here. | ||
| Rocketman |
Joepitz : Around this board someplace is a very detailed account of Jerome's fitting of an A\F gauge. He's had fantastic results from his tamperings and I'm sure he'll chime in himself soon enough or someone will tell you where on the board it is, which I hope they do because I too fancy the installation of one.....that's if I can find the space, and time to fit one. Drew : Can you post pics of your breather set-up ? I'd love to see it next to my own. If you haven't already, run the hose in s\s braid, it looks the biz especially seen as how you get a good length of it. By the way, isn't Hawks Nest old Pirate country ? Rocket in England | ||
| Chuck |
Hey Bored, I'm sorry I'm such a trouble-maker  | ||
| Airborne |
For Joepitz: I plan on mounting a single wire O2 sensor very close to the exhaust port and was wondering if it mattered what cylinder I mounted the sensor to. Place it very close to the rear cylinder exhaust port. The O2 sensor needs to be at 600 degrees or hotter the operate. However I don't trust A/F meters accuracy for tuning purposes. Your better off getting it Dyno tuned. I've helped install them on various bikes and cars for the "trick look" but nothing else. The O2 sensors voltage output signal (0-1 volt)is produced by converting chemical gases into an electicial current by exciting the molecules in the zarconium material inside the sensor. The problem is the current is unstable and takes a computer to read the measurement. The A/F meter commonly sold at parts stores are only a bank of LED's with zenor diodes designed to light up at a specified voltage range. Very simplistic and not accuruate for tuning. A good "sniffer" for tuning would cost around $400.00 and up. The cost of Dyno runs for tuning would be less than that and give a truer reading of performance. | ||
| Jerome |
Joepitz : the rear cylinder is in principle running leaner than the front cylinder (it's hotter) so safest is to install the O2 sensor as close as possible from the rear cylinder exhaust port. Airborne : I'm very surprised by your statement about the O2 sensors. The fuel injected bikes (including the X1 and S3) entirely depend on the O2 sensor output to adjust the air/fuel ratio. If they were only "trick look", how many fuel injected vehicles would indeed work ?! The A/F meter is accurate enough to distinguish between lean and rich conditions, due to the large voltage change on both sides of the stoechiometric values. See the chart below :  It is true that an O2 sensor and an A/F gauge are not accurate in finely tuning in the rich side for instance, and that a dyno run would help to finalize the work. But a dyno run would never tell you how your carburetion is affected by an aircleaner open to the air and influenced by turbulences, wind speed and so on. I have an O2 sensor and an A/F gauge on my Cyclone and I can clearly see my carburetion getting slightly leaner when a sudden strong wind hits my bike on the right side when I cruise at - say - 90 mph on the highway. I'm not kidding... I don't sell O2 sensors, nor A/F ratio gauge. But I can testify here that the overall 150 bucks that I put in this accessory saved me a lot of dyno runs and provided me with a pretty well-tuned carburetion. I'm even adapting now the main jet to the seasonal temperature, something that I would certainly not do if I had to take a rendez-vous with my dealer and run my Buell on his dyno in a climatized garage... But I can understand that generally speaking, a Buell dealer will not encourage anybody to fit such accessory. He'll loose a lot of dyno runs and bucks ! | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Joepitz : As Jerome and Airborne mentioned above, the rear cylinder runs hotter, so put it there, like the factory does. The O2 sensor is grounded through the exhaust pipe so make sure it is mounted right. | ||
| Fastback69 |
If you don't trust O2 sensors to tune with, try a thermocouple. We used T-couple readings to tune the engines on C-130's and it's very accurate. Very expensive, too. Some engine dyno's have the capability to run EGT measurements but I'm not sure of any chassis dyno's that do. | ||
| Joepitz |
Thanks everyone for all of the great feedback. As dyno runs are $50.00 a pop. I plan on a before (base line dyno run). I will then play around with jetting and air filter changes, Then dyno again to compare. I will adjust a/f a tad on the rich side to compensate for any errors in o2 sensor. | ||
| Cyclonem2drew |
Rocket - I plan on posting some pics soon of my M2 with the breather set-up. The s/s is a good idea...I may try it. You'll see in the pics, though...there isn't much hose exposed anymore...you only see it on the left side along the top rail a bit. Good question about Hawks Nest...I don't know the answer, but I rode up there last year and it is a dead ringer for parts of the Deutchen Alpenstrasse (being close to Germany, you may have tried this route!), between Garmish and Berchtesgaden, Germany...winding road along a steep cliff. Also like in Germany, a popular bike spot. | ||
| Rocketman |
Drew : yep, you're right about the s\s . You can't see much of it, but you know it's there  Haven't been to Germany, yet ! Rocket in England | ||
| Captlusk |
Looking for similar experiences. Regarding my on going carb problem that many of you have commented on, I was just looking for the obvious and saw that the rubber dust cover on the carb side of the enricher cable has ridden up on it's self and is kinked on the cable. Have any of you experienced this and did it cause the enricher not to close all the way? | ||
| Thunderbolt |
Does anyone know if the force-winder intake system fits on an S2T with the lower fairings on? How about the force-winder without the carbon fiber cover? I'd be interested in people's experience with the S3T, too. | ||
| Airborne |
Sorry Jerome but I disagree with the "FI Depends entirely on the O2 sensor" statement Here is some food for thought on X1. The O2 sensor constantly sends out a signal but the only time the signal is used for adjusting the fuel metering is when the DDFI is running in a closed loop mode. Here it is straight from the horses mouth. Luis Perez a Buell engineer (creator) of the DDFI. (plagiarized and paraphrased clips from a Brag newsletter dated spring 99) "The DDFI is both an open and closed-loop system. During idle and acceleration the system operates in open loop mode taking fuel and spark information from a programmed "map" in the ECM. During cruising operation the system kicks into closed loop operation." Luis Perez the DDFI engineer is quoted "The O2 sensor is active when the bike is in closed loop mode and its job is to monitor the amount of oxygen in the exhaust. This information is fed to the ECM to adjust the amount of the fuel injected into the engine" There fore the X1 and S3 don't entirely depend on the O2 sensor output to adjust the Air/Fuel Ratio. As for the "trick look" The idea wasn't to make the vehicles (Bike and car) run. It was for the "eye candy" value for my friends Camaro and matching Harley (normally aspirated) that he use to put in shows. The idea caught on around here and I've helped put in more. They too Dyno tune their rides. Hey Fastback69 What unit are you with. I might have jumped out of one of your C-130s before. | ||
| Loki |
Airborne, Not another I wanna jump outa a perfectly good airplane..... Wait a minute, I like fast roping out the back of MH-53s. Are you a Campbell or Bragg type? 314th AW or 8th SOS ring any bells? loki | ||
| Loki |
Airborne, Not another I wanna jump outa a perfectly good airplane..... Wait a minute, I like fast roping out the back of MH-53s. Are you a Campbell or Bragg type? 314th AW(Little Rock) or 8th SOS(Hurlburt Fld) ring any bells? loki | ||
| Jerome |
Airborne : fine. Please, remove the oxygen sensor from an injected vehicle, bring it on a dyno, and then tell me how you make it work. Again, no need to have a Ph-D degree to understand the chart that I posted before. LEDs are not sophisticated, but you don't need sophisticated electronics to read a 0-1 volt signal and to visualize the huge change that happens between - say - 0.8 and 0.2 volts, which in practice represents a change of a few percent of the air/fuel ratio in the exhaust gas, within the stoechiometric value (14.7 to 1). I've personally observed enough interesting things about my carburetion with the A/F gauge to be able to say that it's not just a gadget for Camaro owners. I have a good thermocouple at work which I plan to use for information about exhaust gas temperature and comparison with the air/fuel gauge info. Will keep you posted. | ||
| Peter |
Airborne, I think that the system goes to open-loop at idle, to prevent the engine dying from a lean mixture as the throttle is closed, and again under acceleration because it is working like an accelerator pump in a carburetor. These are not 'normal' operating coditions, so instead of having a huge range available in the ECM for adjustment, it just goes back to a pre-set condition in open-loop. Under most conditions though, the system would be in closed loop, and using the O2 readings. PPiA | ||
| Airborne |
Loki, I'm a Full-Timer in the WV Army National Guard. 2/19th Special Forces Group (Airborne). Your unit doesn't sound familer. What is the SOS part stand for? Air Force acronyms kinda stump me. Jorome, Tell how to add a picture like you did and I'll scan in the article about open and closed loop. When I can find the other article about how and why O2 sensors operate I'll post it here too. What is best for keeping the file size smaller *.jpg *.gif etc. Peter, Your right you must have read the same article. | ||
| Jerome |
Airborne : let's make it simple and clear for everybody, through an example. I am saying that a bike needs a throttle to make it run and if one knows by how much the throttle is open, it is helpful to tune the bike. You are saying that a throttle is not important because the bike needs a carb to work... We can go pretty far that way ! Simple and clear : I know how an O2 sensor works. I spent my professional days working on chemical analysis of gases, doing research on this topic. I don't need explanations. I also know how a FI system works, either open and closed loop, and I know that the oxygen sensor info is not used full-time. An oxygen sensor is not a perfect instrument. We still need to invent a perfect instrument. An air/fuel ratio gauge is not a perfect gauge. We still need to invent the perfect gauge. BUT ! An oxygen sensor, when it's not yet destroyed and when it is above 600°F, sends a 0-1 volt signal which is related with the oxygen content (and thus the air/fuel ratio) in the exhaust gas compared to outside air. An air/fuel ratio gauge indicates this 0-1 volt signal through a series of LEDS (10 to 30, depending on the gauge). This allows to know ALL TIME, WHATEVER RPM, WHATEVER THROTTLE OPENING, how the carb tuning of the bike is. If you still feel that it's a gadget and that there's no other way to tune a bike than to put it on a dyno in an air-conditioned garage under stating air pressure conditions and wind, let's stop here the debate, and let our Buell friends on this forum decide by themselves, as they feel. | ||
| Peter |
Airborne, No. I haven't read the article. I used to have a Snap-On truck and selling injection diagnostic equipment was part of it. I also fitted an air/fuel guage to my M2 and agree with Jerome. A dyno is a very useful tool for comparing changes, but not very good at simulating real world riding conditions. It's snowing here at the moment, and I haven't found a dyno operator that's willing to blow snow into his booth at 100kmh to see how it affects the carby settings. PPiA | ||
| Clydeglide |
I didn't know oxygen was a byproduct of combustion. I thought an O2 sensor was more of a temp probe that converted temp to volts via an oxygen ionization process through the materials used in its construction. If I can find the article I read recently that explains this I'll be glad to post it. Clyde | ||
| Jerome |
Clyde, have a look for example at the following two urls, including diagrams of the sensor and some basic explanations on its principle : sensor 1 sensor2 |
