| Author | Message | ||
     Syborg |
Hello, Please see the pictures of my 1250's. Ridden no more then 1500 miles. Thank goodness it happened during startup and not on the left side of the highway... Does it look familiar to someone?   Roll it over 'n grease it down... (Message edited by SyBorg on November 04, 2009) | ||
| Jmr1283 |
ouch... at first i thought of the piston skirt hitting it on the bottom of the stroke but on a 1250 not likely. | ||
| Pammy |
Is that front and back of the cylinder, or side to side? That would have to be front and rear. Can you show the whole cylinder? Rods? (Message edited by pammy on November 14, 2009) | ||
| Syborg |
Front & back of the rear cylinder Pammy. At this moment I don't have pictures of both the whole cylinders. As far I could see and measure there was no damage to rods or anything else. The last picture shows the front cylinder. You can see a little flatside where the skirt have "touched" the rear cylinder. The hole is where they kissed  each other.... I'm very surprised that this can happen with (in my opinion) straight "bolt-on" pieces…   (Message edited by SyBorg on November 20, 2009) (Message edited by SyBorg on November 20, 2009) (Message edited by SyBorg on November 21, 2009) | ||
| Pammy |
Can you give me the length of the spigot? | ||
| Syborg |
It's 1.005” Pammy. But as you can see on the picture, this spigots have a very little slope (hardly any). On my Buell I have the same cylinders but the slope is much heavier. In my opinion (and looking at the marks) that slope makes the difference between "to touch or not". During installation we have used the supplied base gaskets. Roll it over and grease it down.... | ||
| Strato9r |
For what it's worth, I've seen very similar breakage on two very different types of cylinders in the last couple of months in our machine shop, and was caused by the same thing in both circumstances. In the first case, an air cooled diesel cylinder actually split all the way up to the bottom of the lowest cooling fin on the major thrust side of the barrel. In the second case, the rear cylinder of an 883 Sporty that had been bored to 1200 had nearly identical breakage patterns to those in your photos. In both cases, the cylinders actually measured tight at the very bottom of the spigots. Since piston skirts are not usually truly round, but rather, cam ground so that their widest point is ninety degrees from the pin centerline, the only section of the very bottom of the cylinders affected is right at the bottom of skirt travel on the thrust sides. Looking at the INSIDE of the cylinders on the first two photos, I can see vertical scuff marks on both sides, inside of where the breakage occurred. If you took the cylinder down to your local automotive machine shop, you could have someone set their cylinder dial bore guage up, and check the entire bore for size, with special attention being paid to the very bottom of the bore. Honing cylinders that have a spigot below a very sturdy upper structure can be quite tricky, as the thin lower section of the bore can actually be deflected outwards during the honing process, meaning that less pressure was being used to actually remove metal, meaning less metal was removed. Even some very sophisticated honing machinery can end up leaving this result on a spigot style cylinder, which is why we are really fastidious about checking all new parts for proper fit and finish. Not saying this is actually what has caused your particular problem, but it may be worth investigating if there isn't any clearance problems anywhere else. Good Luck! | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Strat, If that's the case, that would be a factory defect as these are plated cylinders. They should be good to go from the factory, no honing needed or desired right? Brad | ||
| Syborg |
Yes Brad, that's my point. This kit has been sold as "Bolt on". In my opinion that means: "No worries for you, cause we did the thinkin". "Get the old stuff of and put our product in place..." So, if there were precautions for installation, maybe I may assume to be warned for them?? An other point is that the lower end was completely overhauled by a certified mechanic before he installed this kit... | ||
| Blake |
"An other point is that the lower end was completely overhauled by a certified mechanic before he installed this kit..." Might be prudent to find out if and how much he may have cleaned up the decking on the engine case. What do the folks at Millennium say? All their new cylinders are lifetime warranty last I checked. | ||
| Syborg |
Well, the cases are completely stock. The gaskets supplied with the cylinders were used and bore and clearance were checked before mounting. Piston to cylinder wall clearance was checked and no, not the cylinders in the cases as it supposed to be "bolt in/on"... Of course there was contact between my mechanic and Revolution Performance but what I heard is they rejected warranty. In the contacts I had with them they made me the offer to split the costs. I rejected that cause in my opinion it's warranty. In the last contact they asked to sent the kit back for review. When it's warranty they will sent another kit I understood. From my mechanic I heard that I'm not the first one with this type of damage. Thats why this postings. I'm just a bit  curious to other experiences..... Roll it over 'n grease it down... | ||
| Syborg |
.... (Message edited by SyBorg on December 17, 2009) | ||
| Devil_dog |
Podcasts!?!?! I've been under a rock! I've got enough to learn as an IT MONKEY as it is that I almost hate my computer. I'll give the podcast a listen though, i've got a 1999 X1 that has a Power Commander that might be developing issues..... | ||
| Syborg |
Good news! Today Revolution Performance promised a new kit. Thats nice!  (Message edited by SyBorg on December 17, 2009) | ||
| Renamed |
WOW! Lots of nightmare stories there on those cylinders. Zippers, Axtell, and NRHS all carry 1250 iron lined aluminum cylinders. Sounds like that's the way to go. | ||
| Pammy |
You know, this is none of my business as I have absolutely no dogs in this fracas, but it seems to me that renamed may have an agenda. Registered Dec 16th, posted Dec 17th. This is his/her only post. WTF? Zippers and Axtell are the same cylinders(Axtell gets them from Zippers) and there has been trouble with them. I have heard the same from others as well. Sometimes shit happens. You deal with it and move on. Sounds like Syborg is being made whole so all is well. If he is happy, that is all that matters. I have no alliance with Millenium/Revolution nor any of the above . But enough is enough. Tiny minds focused on negativity is boorish at the least. Lets be better than this. | ||
| Newxb12ss |
One of the legitimate issues here is the frequency of failures. Even if cylinders are warranteed a person purchasing parts and having work done at a shop still has to foot the bill for labor. And if a builder is supplying the suspect parts then they too get wrapped up in the loss of labor and any related damages. Some builders have had to discontinue carrying brand "X" for this very reason. Even a small but steady 3% failure rate of such a labor intensive component is simply not acceptable for most builders to cope with. (Message edited by newxb12Ss on December 31, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
Nor would it be acceptable to the manufacturer. It's pretty ignorant to imagine that any manufacturer could stay in business with a 3% failure rate let alone offer a lifetime warranty. |
