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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » Archive through December 21, 2009 » S3T Stalls » Archive through November 01, 2009

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Author Message   Bosephus Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 07:03 pm:        Also forgot to mention although I switched to closed loop for idle when hooked up to ecmspy it still says its in open loop ???   Buellisticx1 Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 07:04 pm:        Who did ecm remap, I just see your eeprom in Winols and they are crap, the whole values are altered...... I'm surprised the bike ran at all. I can email to you a Race eeprom file attached to load.   Bosephus Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 07:11 pm:        The race ecm was purchsed new from the dealership no changes what so ever.......   Buellisticx1 Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 07:17 pm:        leave engine warm up and then the Ego Correction will start to oscillate " that's Idle Closed Loop" (Message edited by buellisticx1 on May 07, 2009)   Bosephus Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 12:20 am:        Left for a while but here is the update So far I have relocate my IAT, changed fuel mapping, replaced all intake seals, tested fuel pressure and still if it is over 80 F outside after ten minutes or so I stall on idle !!!!!!!!!!!!   Bosephus Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 12:00 pm:        Question for you guys why if I have a new fuel pump and regulator would my pressure drop intermitently when I am hot ? Tested it the other day and up until around 150 C pressure is fine (48-49 psi) then will drop down to 20 psi or so causing RPM's to drop or stalling !!!!!!!!!!! Could it be some sort of voltage drop to the pump ?   Sparky Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 03:12 pm:        Could be vapor lock in the fuel pump or regulator causing cavitation in the pump. What is the temperature of the fuel? A stuck shut tank vent valve could cause a partial vacuum to form in the tank and conceivably cause cavitation in the fuel pump, I'd imagine. Do you know the condition of the tank vent valve? Or it could be a faulty regulator causing loss of pressure.   Bosephus Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 03:29 pm:        Spark, Fuel pump and regulator are new.Tank vent valve removed and checked out ok vent line also clear! Fuel not reaching high temps at all. I have been threw the most of the bike shown in the thread and now thinking electrical ???   Buellisticx1 Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 04:06 pm:        Check out the charging system when hot, may be messed up, either voltage regulator (VR) or alternator is bad or a wire is broken. Like I said you many things can cause the problem you are having. Those type of problems are often the most difficult to find.   Buellisticx1 Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 04:48 pm:        Also check the fuse box and ignition relay/fuse   Bosephus Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 07:37 pm:        Well here goes...... I did change out the VR and battery voltage problems cleared up still stalls when its hot outside or the bike gets hot from sitting at idle. Changed out the fuel regulator still stalls.. Tried a know working fuel pump with old and new regulator still stalls... Rechecked the tank valve vent works fine still stalls.... Pulled apart fuel rail checked injector and fuel lines still stalls....... Looking for other things to continue my diagnosis any further ideas ?????   Sparky Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 12:46 am:        Are you getting any current error codes to help diagnostics? What else in the EFI system and sensors has not been touched or troubleshot? Does it otherwise run OK except for stalling?   Bosephus Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 10:51 am:        None what so ever never have. EFI sensors: I have swapped the TPS same symptom New head temp sensor much better temp readings same symptom Tried different ECM same symptom Think I have ran the gammet on the EFI The bike runs great except the stalling and rare sputter at take off but happens when I am aware of the stalling and bliping the throttle to keep alive.   Rhinorear Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 11:48 am:        Any solution found the the idle stalling problem yet? I have an 02 S3T that has just starting doing the stalling thing at idle when hot. In the morning, no problem, cool temps. Ride home for lunch, no problem. Leave to go back to work and of course bike is still warm, at the first stop light, it is not abrupt, but bike idles for a few seconds and then I watch the tach slowly decline until it dies. Temp at this time low to mid 90s. Of course bike immediately starts up but studders off of stop light. I have to modulate throttle to keep it running. Bike is stock except for K&N and Race ECM which was installed several years ago. Thanks in advance!   Bosephus Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 10:38 am:        Rhino, I would start with checking for intake or exhaust leaks.   Rhinorear Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 09:17 pm:        Thanks, will do!!   Bosephus Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 12:27 am:        When was the last TPS reset ?   Sparky Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 02:54 pm:        I read somewhere that gasoline begins to boil at 95 deg. When gas boils, that is vapor lock! Here's one scenario that may account for what is happening: When the fuel pump pressurizes fuel, it heats it to a certain degree (sorry, bad pun). Then the regulator returns this heated fuel back to the tank. The returning fuel gets heated more and more until it starts vapor-locking in the fuel pump; this event would account for your noting the fuel pressure starting to drop... quote: Tested it the other day and up until around 150 C pressure is fine (48-49 psi) then will drop down to 20 psi or so causing RPM's to drop or stalling! . Now if the idle stalling issue only happens when the outside temperature is hot, perhaps the issue is related to the formulation of the gasoline where you are getting fueled. Different brands have differing formulations for their gas that includes varying amounts of additives like volatiles which boil at higher or lower temperatures than the base gasoline. So, perhaps try a different brand of gasoline if you have been using the same brand and see if the situation changes.   Bosephus Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 04:16 pm:        Sparky, All makes to much sense and what I have thought could be the case. The thing that throws me off is I have fueled from different stations as well as the previous owner who lived in a different town with the same problem. Once the problem arises it is constant so the fuel temp makes even more sense. I have heat tapes the underside of the tank and fuel lines to help the fuel temp but not enough dont know where to go from here.........   Rhinorear Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 09:35 pm:        That is interesting about vapor lock. I did pop my gas cap at a light to see if that was the problem or if popping the gas cap would help with the dying. Of course it didn't. One thing I want to add is that I did add about a quarter of a bottle of, I can't remember the brand name, injector cleaner to the tank. I did this because the bike sat for several months while the front fork was rebuilt. I wonder if that had some impact. I think I might have added to much. Of course I won't know until I fill up again. What does injector cleaner do to gas?   Kalali Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 08:42 am:        I use fuel injection cleaner additive (Techron only) in my X1 (and cars) on a regular basis, e.g., one ounce/gallon every 2000 miles right before a fill up. No problems. I would fill the tank and run through one tankful.   Bosephus Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:36 pm:        Well after a ride today in 96 degree weather the bike ran the worst it has ever.... When I finally got home took a temp reading of the fuel and it was 106 F why is my fuel getting so hot and what can I do to ? FYI tank was 2/3 full.   Sparky Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:56 pm:        Well, if you put in a new fuel pump and regulator and then when it got hot measured fuel pressure at only 20 lbs, I think I'd consider that pump and/or regulator to be faulty. Do you think a pressure outside of 50 +/- 1 psi is normal?   Bosephus Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 12:45 am:        Original pump and regulator were near new 1000 miles maybe and tried known working pump and regulator in all combinations so want to rule out pump/reg. Has anyone had a tank get this hot ? I dont think +/-1 psi near out of range but -20to30 psi yep......   Sparky Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 01:11 pm:        According to the Buell Factory Service Manual, albeit for an XB9R, 50 +/- 1 psi is spec. Any reading outside this range is an anomaly, so believe what you want. Don't take my word for it, do you have the service manual for your bike? If not, ask the dealer what the spec pressure is. As a side point, many 2008 1125R owners noted evidence of boiling fuel in their tanks, yet their bikes idled properly with this condition and otherwise ran OK, AFAIK. I know yours is an S3T but the point is that others have hot fuel to the point of boiling and yet theirs idle and run OK, but yours doesn't.   Bosephus Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 01:20 pm:        Sparky, I do have the manual and 45 to 53 psi is within specs at 2000 rpm and 49 psi at idle mine does that until hot then you know...... Actually just left the dealer that has seen the bike when it was with the previous owner and they are just as clueless as me.   Bosephus Posted on Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 10:15 am:        Rhino, Is your S3 still having issues ?   Bosephus Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 04:59 pm:        Time to re-visit my S3 problems.... Here is what I have found: When testing the fuel pressure by jumpering pin 3 to 2 causing the pump to run constant I read a steady 49 psi never fluctuates. I reconnect the ECM and fire the bike up I read 36 psi and I fluctuate up and down until the bike stalls. Voltage to the pump is my thought but without a breakout box really cant measure anyone seen something like this ?   Rhinorear Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 03:39 pm:        Well I thought I would reserect this thread to see if any solutions have been reach to the stalling at idle when engine is hot. I have read all replies to date and seem to think this thread got high jacked by another problem. Did it? Or is all this talk about VR and other electrics related to this stalling I am about to haul my 02 S3T to the stealership concerning this stalling problem but wanted to ask one more time. I just got back from turning the key to see if I could hear the fuel pump and of course I couldn't. I also seem to have a weak battery now. The battery is relatively new. Might we put our heads together one more time? Thanks in advance!   Bosephus Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 07:29 pm:        Rhino, I did find my issue and would be more than willing to get this discussion turned towards fixing your issue !