| Author |
Message |
    
Elmonkey
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:06 pm: | 
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I recently bought an '04 XB12S with about 9500 miles. Bike is in excellent overall shape and the previous owner just had the 10k service done, which included new air filter and spark plugs. Shortly after getting the bike I noticed that it would run rough and stall on startup. I thought it could be bad gas, so I filled it up with 93 octane fuel and have done so several time since. I didn't think to ask the previous owner what he'd been running in it and I'm almost certain the manual said to use premium fuel. Since continuing to have problems with stalling during idle and almost cutting out at low RPMs until the bike is super warm, I've wondered if it could be the fuel octane (like, should I be running lower octane fuel)?
Any thoughts are appreciated. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:39 pm: |
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No the engine needs 91 or better pump octane. Sounds to me like you may need a TPS reset. You might first try adjusting the idle up a bit. |
Bigo
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 02:27 pm: |
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Just curious Elmonkey- where did you get the idea that maybe you should use lower octane rated fuel?
Higher octane fuels purpose is to prevent engine knock (pinging) on higher compression engines. It has nothing to do with what you described. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 03:13 pm: |
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As Blake suggested, I would do a TPS reset to rule that out. |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 05:20 pm: |
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After the TPS reset, if no improvement, you might want to check the intake seals. Hope this helps, Dave. |
Bigo
| | Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 02:31 pm: |
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Well, if the bike runs poorly while cold and at idle then cold start enrichment may need adjusting. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 03:15 pm: |
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By the way, I have always used 93 octane in my X1 with no problem. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 09:50 am: |
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>>>cold start enrichment may need adjusting.
How would you do that? Answer: Short of remapping the ECM yourself, you cannot. The cold start enrichment is part of the DDFI mapping based upon intake air temperature. |
Elmonkey
| | Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 12:23 pm: |
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Thanks for the feedback guys. The bike was serviced right before I took ownership and the TPS was reset at the time. How often can that possibly need to be done? The bike idles at around 1k and the TPS reset would only make it idle higher. I don't think this is the problem, but could be wrong.
Bigo - Before asking the question I read thru some other threads here and found the lower octane suggestion in two spots; one of which was a second-hand quote from a Buell service Tech. I didn't think to check and see if it was the same person that made the comment... Could have been bunk advice, but thought it was worth asking. Given the "weirdness" of the Buell's fuel injection and general start-up/low RPM performance that I've sensed so far, it made a little sense to me that the open loop F.I. map could be affected by the fuel octane. What I'm experiencing isn't knocking, which I would expect the higher octane to help with. This seems to be some core issue that I believe is only related to the open loop mapping, because the bike behaves better after some period of time that I've come to learn is when the closed loop mapping takes over. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 04:03 pm: |
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"I've come to learn is when the closed loop mapping takes over"
I don't know if you have ECMSPY but if you do, there is a setting in the ECM map where you can choose between open loop idle and closed loop idle. Furthermore, the ECM still uses the open loop maps during closed loop operation. It will use the input from the O2 sensor (during closed loop) to modify the AFV and applies that value to the entire map. Without looking at the maps and the settings (via ECMSPY) you are totally in dark as what the fuel/timing maps look like and if there is anything out of ordinary that is causing your idle problem. |
Elmonkey
| | Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 04:21 pm: |
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Thanks Kalali. I've started a separate thread to see if I can get EcmSpy from anyone now that the developer has stopped supporting it and I'm too new of an owner to have gotten it when it was available... Do you have a suggestion of where I could safely get it? In my other thread I was trying to see if someone could burn the installation executable to a disk and mail it to me.
Thanks again. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 06:25 pm: |
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I saw your other thread and I would be happy to help you except my R/W CD burner is not working properly. I will let you know as soon as I can find a way to get it copied. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 06:56 pm: |
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Randy, send me a PM with your address.
I think I got it to work/copy... |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 08:14 pm: |
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Sounds like your O2 sensor is fouled.
The natural thing to do after you start your bike is touch the throttle if is starts to stumble.
The standard single wire O2 takes a couple of minutes to get hot enough to send corrections for mixture.
If you move the throttle during this time the already rich mixture gets even richer and can foul the O2. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 06:05 am: |
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Try to change idle open loop (turned off box idle closed loop enable) and see if your idle is better, maybe idle mixture is too lean or richer. From this way the O2 sensor not works and it won't use the input from the O2 sensor.
"With idle closed loop enable", warm up the bike to normal operating temp and let it at idle, then check the ego with the afv previously reset to 100. If ego was at 95 enter "0.95" in the box below the fuel map that has 1.0 in next to, then click on the X button. If ego is 110. enter "1.10". This way you will know the mixture at idle (lean or rich)
Hope helps. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 11:40 am: |
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I think in my bike the EGO Correction and AFV are the same value. Assuming that being the case, a value of 95 means the ECM (through the readings from the O2 sensor)is "reducing" the fuel map by 5% which in turn means that the maps are 5% too rich. So realistically you want to increase the fuel by 5% across the map which is done by multiplying the map by 1.05. The opposite is true if the AFV is 105, e.g., multiply by .95. Furthermore, I think you will need to "select" the entire fuel map before increasing or reducing it by X%. What you have suggested (if I understood you correctly) will only change the cell that is highlighted not the entire map.
Correct me if I am missing something here. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 03:01 pm: |
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Kalali,
you wrote: I think in my bike the EGO Correction and AFV are the same value. Answer: NOT!, lambda correction or EGO corr first and AFV in long term. EGO corr only works in closed loop using the input from the O2 sensor.
You wrote: What you have suggested (if I understood you correctly) will only change the cell that is highlighted not the entire map. Answer: Right!!,you don't need increasing or reducing the entire fuel map, only change the cell that is highlighted. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 11:07 am: |
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I see. So you were just trying to adjust the cell in the fuel map in the idle area not the whole map. I will check this EGO thing again when I have time this weekend. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 02:02 pm: |
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Remember to change idle closed loop enable to on for see the Ego Corr. and warm up the bike to normal operating temp.(around 160 ºC.)
This will show you the percentage of change that you need to apply to the new idle cell front and rear and the two cells directly adjacent. After to do this, then I change idle open loop (I like idle in open loop). |
Kalali
| | Posted on Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 09:18 am: |
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My bike also seems to prefer the idle open loop. My idle gets nice and steady around 1000 RPM when warmed up but a bit shaky at cold start ups. Haven't been able to fully fix that yet. |
Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) »
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Backfire, stalling, poor idle on start... too high octane fuel?