| Author | Message | ||
     Jose E. Martinez (Jmartz) |
Checked out the VOES and it is NO (normally opened)switch. This means that it only engages when sucked by high vacuum/low pressure. Deceleration is one instance. When it engages the retarded curve is selected. Since I only want this feature to operate in deceleration to eleiminate muffler pops I am putting a trip swtitch on the on the carb's throttle shaft to activate only when the butterfly is in the idle or fully (nearly so)closed position. Wish my digital camera had a better lens to post a foto. With a 3 - 6 feet range I don't think the pikcher will be any good. Jose | ||
| Rickie Morrison (Rickie) |
Jose You are correct in stating that the VOES is a normally open switch, however, the only time it is open is in the absence of the preset vacuum to switch it. The statement, “When it engages, the retard curve is selected”, is false. When this switch engages, closes, or is energized, by manifold vacuum reaching the preset, the ignition module is switched to the advance slope. So, when you are decelerating with throttle closed, you are under a high vacuum/low load condition and your ignition is harmlessly on the advance slope. When the switch is OPEN (it is disengaged), there is no continuity, the lead to the ignition it controls is NOT grounded therefore the ignition is reading the RETARDED curve. Steve is wise to first research the factory specification for his specific make, model. Second, check your actual settings of your switch. Then research under what conditions you pinging or detonation is experienced. The VOES vacuum switch setting numbers I stated in my previous post were for reference only, they are to no way be taken as relevant to your actual model. You need to consult you’re manual for the specific application and factory settings in order to get a base line for any adjustments. And should you want or need to make any adjustments, do them only after jetting and initial timing is optimal. I could quote the specifications out of any manual in my shop, or I could check my notes and inform you of the setting for someone else’s bike, but I won’t for fear that they would be mistaken as THE setting to use in another application or combination. The result could be the possibility of another disgruntled Buell owner with a toasted top end, blaming the manufacturer for a problem they do not realize they caused. There are to many variables that come into play to have a one size fits all setting, and is precisely why the switch is in place to begin with. I do know how difficult this can be to conceptualize at times, so if I have only further confused you, then please, do not proceed until you completely understand. If you wish, we could talk one on one. Rickie | ||
| Jose E. Martinez (Jmartz) |
Rickie I posted my last message after reading the manual. Seemed to me at the time that high vacuum selects the retarded curve. Let me go back and re read the darn book to see if I can ever get this right. One thing is certain my motor performs much better w/o the switch connected. Do you think running a programmable (Thunderheart) ignition could be the source of the confusion? Jose | ||
| Rickie Morrison (Rickie) |
Jose, If the manual that you are referring to were the Thunderheart manual, then I would say possibly. I have not read the manual for the ignition you are using, so I am at a disadvantage to how they explain it. This subject can be confusing enough without the ignition manufacturer explaining the function of the switch from a somewhat inverted perspective, if there is such a thing. For instance, You can read the factory manual, a high performance Harley specific hand book, and the instructions for the Crane module and walk away with totally conflicting impressions on the function and propose of this switch. I know I have. You know, it just occurred to me that some of the confusion can stem from the authors of this subject do not write about it from a universal or default perspective. For instance, is the default ignition curve retarded or advanced? Is the switch function to turn on the advance curve or is it to shut it off? Once you sort this out in your mind then you will feel better. The switch is normally OPEN. When there is vacuum to it, the switch is activated, it then CLOSES its contacts, turning ON and completing the electrical circuit, by grounding the ignition, and then the ignition switches to the advanced curve. And yes, you can feel the difference in the performance of the bike in the form of enhanced throttle response. Not more power, but a more instantaneous reply to input. Man my neuro-transmitters are crackling over time trying stimulate a couple synapses in order find a way to explain this in a text form and not cause further confusion. Hey, I wonder are neuro- transmitters momentarily grounded to fire like an ignition coil? Are synapse normally open or closed? How much resistance is needed to slow the nerve impulses powering my newly developed facial tick? Maybe I need a diode installed to prevent some sort of electrical feedback. Just kidding, probably to much caffeine, I think I need a nap! Good Luck, Rickie | ||
| Darryl Salmon (Sparky) |
The Buell manual has a simple functional test to determine whether the VOES works or not (assuming stock ignition components): With the engine idling at the specified idle rpm, 900 or 1100 for Ca. bikes, unplug the VOES electrical connector and observe the rpm drop a few hundred rpm. The ignition is now on the retarded curve. Plug the connector in again and observe the rpm rise to the specified rpm. The ignition is now on the full advance curve where the timing can be set with a timing light. If there is no difference in rpm by plugging/unplugging the VOES, then the VOES should be further checked out. As far as I know this simple test can be applied to all Harleys and Buells that use a VOES and stock ignition. Sparky 96S1, 98S3 | ||
| Jose E. Martinez (Jmartz) |
Darryl: That confirms "switch closed advanced" switch open retraded" | ||
| elmo (Elmo) |
Hi, My insurance wants an alarm. I bought one. There is no electrical diagram in my owner's manual. Help !!! :)) Where can I find this electrical diagram please ??? elmo, France. | ||
| Fidel (Doncasto) |
Torque Master: By Bob Stoll - Ice White Pearl S1W (Bob) on Sunday, July 18, 1999 - 09:46 am: Hi everyone, it's me one more time. I thought I'd give you a follow-up on my experience with the Torque Master spark plugs. If you remember my earlier post and picture, these are "gapless" spark plugs designed for high-performance applications. I installed the plugs in my bike and noticed two things right away. The bike idled *much* better and the exhaust note had more of a basso profundo quality to it. I have since put about 150 miles on the bike and it definitely pulls stronger and more steadily in the low-end than it did with the stock HD plugs. I have also noticed that the bike seems to burn the fuel more efficiently. What I mean is that when I read the stock plugs they showed that I was running a little on the rich side. When I read the Torque Master plugs (same jetting) they showed a spot-on light tan/whitish color. Overall I am very pleased with the Torque Master plugs because they made a noticeable improvement in the way my bike ran. At around $13.00 each they are more expensive than the stock plugs, but since they come with a limited lifetime warranty and should last well over 200,000 miles (on their website they compare a new Splitfire and a 200,000+ mile Torquemaster) these plugs should prove to be quite a bargain in the long run. The Part # I ordered was: 12SVN5R1R You can contact Torque Master at: Torque Master Products Inc. 114 Standard Street El Segundo, California 90245 310-322-4125 (Voice) 310-322-5318 (Fax) All the usual disclaimers apply. I'm not affiliated with them in any way other than I like their product. Bob... | ||
| J.V. (Rdrage) |
Has anyone compared the Race ECM vs PC III? Any suggestions? | ||
| J.V. (Rdrage) |
What is the difference??? | ||
| FrankO (Fpostow97s3) |
Looking for recommendations on the ignition curve setting for my S3. I have the SE race module and single fire coil. Tstorm motor with gutted box and Borla can. I re-jetted 2 years ago when I gutted the box with a 45/185. I recall that someone mentioned since this is not the Buell race module the setting will not be the same. I have had this set on curve 2 and it runs fine but this may not be the ideal setting. Anyway I appreciate your input in advance. | ||
| Aaron Wilson (Aaron) |
Frank, Timing is a lot like jetting, there are no hard rules, nobody can tell you what will work best, they can only provide starting points. Maybe. With respect to this ignition (which I'm assuming is the SE selectable curve, a repackaged Dyna 2000), as I'm sure you know, curve 1 is the most aggressive, curve 2 is the same as some stock Harley curve, and curves 3 & 4 are less aggressive than stock. It's made this way because a lot of high performance motors require a less aggressive curve, because the compression has been raised. Keeping in mind that the point of optimum power is frequently well shy of the point of pinging, the only way you'll ever *really* dial it in is with a dyno, IMO. Seat of pants is not particularly accurate. Here's what I'd do ... first, set your total timing for max top end power. Then try each of the curves. They all have the same total advance so the peak hp shouldn't change appreciably between the curves. But, take a look at the bottom end and mid range. The dyno will tell you which one works best. Set that total timing first, though, otherwise you'll get the wrong answer when you select the curve. Changing the total timing moves the entire curve up or down. BTW, rarely have I seen the factory timing setting make the most hp on the dyno. Frequently the point of max power is 1-3 ticks away, in either direction. Furthermore, ignition modules all have different amounts of delay. You can dial in your timing for max power, then stick on a different module that has supposedly the same total advance, set the timing again for max power, and you'll find yourself 1-3 ticks off. Tuning something like this without an appropriate measurement method is hit or miss. Mostly miss. Let us know what you find. Good luck, AW | ||
| FrankO (Fpostow97s3) |
Aaron, thanks for all the helpful information. I recall, no pun intended - that word gets thrown around enough as is, this discussion coming up before. I have noticed some pinging on my last few rides although it is not consistent and only happens once warmed up. That's when I started thinking of my ignition setup and the suggestion made by one of the Nallins that curve 4 with 2 ticks retard was a good starting point. I'm in the position as many are that the closest dealer is HD only, but the good news is they have a dyno. Once again thanks and attached is my dyno run from last spring with the curve 2.  | ||
| Daniel Craddock (Ragendan) |
97 M2 Ignition modules part numbers......Is there a race Ignition module ? if there is what is the part number???? thanks | ||
| Daniel Craddock (Ragendan) |
97 M2 Ignition modules part numbers......Is there a race Ignition module ? if there is what is the part number???? thanks | ||
| Aaron Wilson (Aaron) |
Frank, That looks like a pretty decent running bike! See ya, AW | ||
| Bryan T Nill (Loki) |
Frank, Nice curves, no big dips or drop-offs. | ||
| Bryan T Nill (Loki) |
elmo, which bike and year? The service manuals all have a diagram. It just happens to be a folded over page, on that note there is a similar page for the oiling system. | ||
| FrankO (Fpostow97s3) |
Thanks for the comments Aaron and Bryan. I've just finished making some changes to my setup and the dyno session is set for tomorrow afternoon. I'll let you all know how it turns out. I just finished my SOP run and I'm very optimistic. | ||
| elmo (Elmo) |
Bryan, I got an X1 2000 :) damn my machine, when she's hot (and she is) increases her idle rpm to about 1300 rpm instead of the normal 1000 rpm. she did it with the stock pipe. She does it with the vance. Is it due to the O2 sensor ? Is it due to the ECM ? I think it's a known bug but can't find any post about that. help plz !! V. elmo. | ||
| FrankO (Fpostow97s3) |
I'm posting my dyno run in the appropriate dyno subheading. Overall she now runs great again, no pinging and an improved torque curve with a gain of apx 2 hp. Thanks to everyone for the input and direction. | ||
| J.V. (Rdrage) |
Does anyone have problems starting their F.I. bike cold? Every morning I have a hard time starting my 2000 X-1. It doesn't start till the fourth or fifth try!! After it worms up I have no problems. It doesn't get real cold hear in San Diego either. Any Ideas??? | ||
| 00' X-1 Race Stripe, Neil S. (Ccryder) |
J.V.: Sometimes I need to just barely crack my throttle and it will start right up. Hold it at 1200-1500 for about 30sec. and it will be fine. Other alternative, crank about 1/2-3/4 turn on the idle knob. First choice I feel is best. later Neil | ||
| J.V. (Rdrage) |
it works! thanks Ccryder! | ||
| Tom Thompson (Tomthompson) |
Does anyone have the part # for the race ignition for a 00 S3T? I have had a 00M2 for the last year.I put over 16,000 miles on it with no trouble at all, but here with the fuel injected bike, I am lost... and it runs like ••••(hesitates) at lower rpms. Over 4000 rpms it runs fine, and no pinging, but I need to correct the problem. Help! Tat, or someone...I also need the price. Thanks, Tom... | ||
| Dave Tripp (Tripper) |
Tom; Direct from the 2001 Buell Accessories catalog I received from my dealer yesterday: Race Electronic Control Module 91437-99Y $190.00 Works on all of the FI Buells from 99 up. | ||
| Dave Tripp (Tripper) |
Tom; Hold on, I just remembered that I know where a new unused race module is. I will ping your email as soon as I confirm the guy still has it available. | ||
| Dave Tripp (Tripper) |
Never mind, the race module was returned to the dealer. Call Topeka HD/Buell if your dealer does not have stock. | ||
| Bryan T Nill (Loki) |
alright here is another plug to add to the list. Bosch: XR_4_CS this is a cross over from the 6R12 plug. Funny thing is my M2 doesn't seem to ping as easy as with the 6R12 plugs. always have liked Bosch plugs. loki | ||
| Idzerda (Hans) |
Bosch XR4CS silver plugs with an hexnut 11/16 and a preset gap of 0.7 mm. I use them with the gap widened to 1.0 mm. They cover a wider heatrange. Bosch XR4CS roughly the same as NGK DPR 9EA 9. | ||
| Christophe (Frenchbuelldog) |
Somebody can give me the gap for the NGK dpr9ea9 plugs, please . Thanks Chris | ||
| J.V. (Rdrage) |
I had the kooks exhaust system installed and I started getting a stutter or miss. I was told on ATC it might be that the stock ECM was making my bike run lean. I Had the dealer install the Race ECM today, I'm still getting the same stutter...The tech took my bike for a ride and he felt the same thing. He hooked it up to the scannalizer and found nothing. He said there was nothing he could do. He told me to try the Power Commander. Anybody have another suggestion?? | ||
| Aaron Wilson (Aaron) |
Just got back from testing ignition modules ... <snip> friggin software jumped to a page that claimed I double posted, and did this literally as I was typing in a file name for upload ... let me try again ... | ||
| Aaron Wilson (Aaron) |
Just got back from testing ignition modules ...  This was done on my '99 M2. In blue is the stock module with the factory stock timing setting. Note how the power falls off at upper rpm as the retard kicks in. Peak hp=82.6, peak torque=81.6 In red is the stock module with the timing optimized for maximum top end power, which was slightly advanced from the factory setting. Note how the lower end power and torque are down slightly. Peak hp=83.3, peak torque = 80.7 In green is the race module with the timing optimized for maximum top end power. This setting happened to be the factory setting. Note how it's strong on both the bottom and top end. Peak hp=83.3, peak torque=81.6 My conclusions from looking at the data: I can advance the timing slightly and overcome the stock module's high rpm retard, thus making just as much top end power as the race module. However, at least on this bike, there is evidence that this may result in a small loss of torque/power in the lower rpm ranges. The race module allows me to get all the top end power without losing anything down low. The total differences we're talking about, bottom end or top end, are very slight. Just to remove any doubt about what was tested ...  I didn't see any point in unbolting the old one and bolting in the new one.  This is the stock unit. I've never had it out of the bike. It looks like it maybe had a sticker on it's face at one point in time.  My em too on Chuck's dyno. See ya, AW | ||
| Aaron Wilson (Aaron) |
By the way, I also tested Torquemaster plugs ... I didn't see any change in the power. I did, however, experience a huge amount of popping and backfiring when I'd shut down the throttle. I jetted it all over the place trying to make this go away and/or realize some more power, but moving the jetting costed power and the popping remained, even when I was too fat. YMMV of course. See ya, AW | ||
| Dave Tripp (Tripper) |
While your at it, do the S1 tomorrow. | ||
| Aaron Wilson (Aaron) |
Dave: My bride's '96 S1 has the stock ignition module as well. It's marked: N0306.9 9612 BHP4 The M2's module (pictured above) is marked: N0306.9 9829 BHP4 I'm guessing the 9612 is a date code, meaning the 12th week of '96. The bike was made in April, so this would fit. And my M2 is an early one, #129, so the 29th week of '98 would seem correct. Also, as evidenced by it's dyno sheet, clearly it has the same rev limit as the M2. Bottom line, I'm about 99% sure my M2 and S1 both use the same ignition module. So I would fully expect the exact same results if I were to test the race module on the S1. See ya, AW | ||
| Peter Moltmann (Peter) |
Aaron, Which Torquemaster plugs (number) did you use? I put some in mine about a month ago, just because I was told they wouldn't make any difference, so I had to find out. I haven't dyno'd it yet, but seat of the pants didn't notice any change. I'm not suffering any popping though. Don't ask what they cost to get to Holland....... PPiA | ||
| Paul Batts (Xlwp) |
Aaron, Thanks for posting that info. I also get a little popping in the exhaust using the Torquemaster plugs. They are 12SVN2R2R (with Magnecor wires and single fire). These are the "Star" series and a little on the cold side. I've never dynoed the bike so I couldn't say about the power and I've never used another plug, so, I don't know for sure that the plugs cause the popping. All I have is time slips that tell me the bike runs very well. Question........I know this has been asked before, so, let me apologize up front for asking again, but, I've never seen or heard a definitive answer to the question. Can you tell me what the (step by step) advance curve is on the race module? Thanks PB | ||
| Sean Pepper (Rocketman) |
Looking at those dyno specs, I'd say it was a waste of money buying a race module ! Bet you can't tell any difference with your arse in the saddle. Rocket in England |
