| Author |
Message |
    
Bosephus
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 06:57 pm: | 
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Recently purchased my 02 S3T love the bike buttttttt wants to stall occasionally at idle ! I have reset the TPS and AFV checked for any exhaust/intake leaks and still no luck. Also previous owner had dealership remap the ecm and although no tuning expert looking at the map seems funky !
Would anyone take a look at it for me !
(Message edited by bosephus on April 17, 2009) |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 10:43 pm: |
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OK I have added a race ecm reset the tps and still when hot I stall when at idle for more than two to three minutes what the heck ? |
Kalali
| | Posted on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 10:11 am: |
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If you have ECMSPY, check your Cold Start Enrichment table. May something is screwed up there. Do you plugs get fouled frequently? |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 10:30 am: |
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The table is different then the stock ecm but not much and enrichment drops fine as the bike warms up. Plugs seem to be fine and the bike starts right back up. It will drop on idle a hair then just die sometimes I can catch it and rev it back up to keep it running I will pull my plugs after a ride today to check if I am lean or rich. |
5liter
| | Posted on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 11:13 am: |
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Engine temp sensor out of whack? |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 02:13 pm: |
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Could be although when hooked up to ecmspy readings dont seem to be out of whack. Temp rises and cold start % decreases. |
Eshardball
| | Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 07:57 am: |
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Mine is doing roughly the same thing but not only won't idle, I have to apply a lot of throttle to keep it from wanting to stall and then it all comes on at once. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 11:47 am: |
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"...the map seems funky ! Would anyone take a look at it for me !"
What do you mean by "funky"? Try posting a picture of the front or rear fuel map and we could take a look... |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 01:25 pm: |
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Kalali
That was my stock map it had a number of adjacent cells that would increase by as much as 50 points and was not smooth in some areas. I am now running a race map and has made a huge difference.
Also I found my tank vent line was pinched closed by a tie wrap could this possibly be the cause of my woes ??? I have not had the weather to ride so no test as of yet. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 03:12 pm: |
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What is idle set at--if it is too low it stall. And have you checked for intake leaks. Intake seals and in jector seals go on a regular basis. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 12:23 pm: |
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Idle runs 950-1050 and test ride went good for first 45 min then stalled out again this time worse than ever did'nt want to start for a few minutes. Was told by dealership that ecmspy wont reset TPS correctly and they need to do it. Also talked with previous owner and he had same problems just not as bad as mine he lives at a higher altitude where never gets over 80 degrees !!! I am going to pull the tank and check injector and intake seals. |
Jramsey
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 01:09 pm: |
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That dealer is full of shit.
Idle needs to be 1050 anything lower and it will be balky off idle.
I set both of my tubers 1050+.
(Message edited by jramsey on April 30, 2009) |
Tdman77
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 01:36 pm: |
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+2 on 1050 idle. Not only will it be "balky" but any lower and you won't have enough oil pressure to circulate the oil correctly. When I first got my bike I thought it sounded cool idleing at around 800. It wasn't till I rode with other buells that I found out about the oil issues. Mine stay no less than 1050. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 01:52 pm: |
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Guys thanks and for the dealership this is the one that has had the bike previously three times and cant fix this issue. In fact the previous owner sunk close to $1000 before I purchased it. Good for me new fuel pump, regulator, coil, IAT and TPS sensor but still stalls when hot ! I will increase the idle and give her a ride let you know in a few hours......... |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 06:13 pm: |
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Well bumped idle up and went for a ride although the higher idle a few times kept the bike from not stalling alas it still did towards the end of my ride ! Has to be temp related so thats were I am going to concentrate. |
Ocbueller
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 06:52 pm: |
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Open your gas cap next time it happens. If you hear a whoosh, when you take off the cap it may be a vent issue.
SteveH |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 07:48 pm: |
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What air filter setup you have?....If you have installed a aftermarket air cleaner perhaps your air temperature sensor is causing that issue or bad idle.
With the aftermarket air cleaner setup the air temperature sensor is either badly placed and gets heated up from the engine or some hot air (from the exhaust or the engine)flows along the temperature sensor and make him send a wrong signal to the ECM.
The effect is that the fuel is reduced now, because hot air is less dense than cold air, but as the air was cold in reality, the mixture was too lean.
You could try to move the IAT to another position such as behind the windshield like me ,to protect it from engine heat, but if the IAT is placed at it's stock position, then something goes wrong there and you will have to find out.
I had exactly the same symptoms on my X1 for a long time and when relocate the IAT behind the windshield helped quite.
Also you can try switch on idle closed loop in the system configuration of the ECMSPY. If the Idle is closed loop, it should even compensate for some error in TPS, it also helped me a lot with the idle problem in hot.
Like Firemanjim said, also check for intake leaks or injector seals.
Also could to be a bad ETS??
This issue was puzzling for me, and I was racking my brain trying to figure out what was causing this issue at the end Turned out be a bad fuel regulator with along the IAT position.
This may not be your problem but it’s an idea....
Please, Keep us updated on what you find.
Good luck!
(Message edited by buellisticx1 on April 30, 2009) |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 10:50 pm: |
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Ok I have an aftermarket air filter but the problem existed while using the stock one ! Tell me more about the idle closed loop. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 07:13 pm: |
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All XB series came out with the idle closed loop but not any Tuber's, I suppose that has been improved and upgraded for better.
You could try to switch on idle closed loop in the system configuration of ECMSPY, which will cure only the symptom, but not the cause.
Open ECMSPY and in the ECM-Config click on idle closed loop enable, that's all.
Always I have been running with Oval Air Cleaner with KN filter element and never had this issue till the earlier last summer, suddenly began to happen. I did several TPS reset, I replaced intake gaskets, injectors o-ring, O2 sensor, IAT sensor, and ET sensor both idling problems still was there.
Gunter(creative of ECMSpy) read my post and offered to help selflessly and he helped to me a lot with my problem in hot and they were exactly the same symptoms than yours.
I followed his instructions and I moved the IAT behind the windshield over the headlamp and also switched on idle closed loop and the problem was reduced enough and that improved the behavior of the bike.
At the end I did a fuel pressure and it was 40 psi on idle and 54 psi on mid / hight revs. It seems to be the fuel pump regulator was toasted, changed the fuel regulator and solved.
I read many many posts about this issue, somebody turned out to be ETS, others intake seals,throttle body seals, Injector o-ring, to others was a bad Fuel Pump or Fuel Regulator, others changed the TPS and fixed, others had injectors plugged and ECM shorted out and so on.
Many things can cause the problem you are having.
What is your AFV value after ride in closed loop learning mode?....
In order to know if the TPS work fine is mark the tps voltage signal to log, and twist the throttle a little and see if goes up and stays stable, drop to idle again and look if every time the voltage is the same, (It's one other thought)
Sorry for my English I´m no native speaker |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 10:14 pm: |
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AFV value after first reset adjusted to 95 after second reset adjusted to 90. The TPS test worked fine voltage stayed steady and dropped right back to 1.2 v everytime. Today did the injector and intake seal test tested good. Going to relocate IAT tomorrow and hope weather is good enough to ride.
Buellisticx1 and all you badweather guys want to thank you very much for all your help I am determined to figure this out !!! |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 06:03 pm: |
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Hello,
Odd sounds or it will be a coincidence!, I also had those AFV values ( always 90 or 95 and never see others AFV values) when my bike had this issue and at the end I changed the Fuel regulator and the issue went away. This could not be your main problema, but that's what at the end completely fixed mine.
BTW What altitude are you at?
Please,provide findings.
I’ll be very interested to see what happens,
so we have a better knowledge about these fantastics bikes, although at times can be bitch. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 09:39 pm: |
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Just relocated IAT went for a ride and still stalling !
While hooked up to Ecmspy noticed flucuations in my EGO voltage from 0.19 to as high as 0.60 what does this mean ? Also once the bike stalled in the garage on Ecmspy could'nt get it to start so pulled a plug not fouled but a little ashen so running lean still !!! |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 11:00 pm: |
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Buellisticx1 I am at 4600 ft but travel up to 10,000 sometimes. Although the dealership said they changed the fuel regulator I am going to check my fuel pressure in the next day or so( once I get the bike running again !) |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 04:44 pm: |
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so it didn't help. What a pity.
So it's the way the Buell ECM works when running in closed loop, is by maximizing the .45V crossings. So while it is true that the Buell ECM runs ON AVERAGE at 14.7:1 in closed loop, it actually is rarely at exactly 14.7:1. The ECM bounces the AFR slightly richer, than slightly leaner, all the time. If you monitor O2 sensor voltage with a scanalyzer or ECMSPY, you can watch this occur. Most of the time, the O2 voltage when running steady state on a fully warmed up motorcycle bounces between .2 and .7 Volts or so, with .15 and .75 VDC not all that uncommon. But it doesn't hurt anything, as it never stays there. And as soon as you twist the throttle, it is yanked out of closed loop and NOT at 14.7 or higher anymore.
BTW Have you switched on idle closed loop?...
let's see the fuel pressure test how it goes |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 06:07 pm: |
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Havent got the guage to test pressure yet but also wondering what your idle is like mine cold 1000 to 1100 hot 1050 to 1175 jumpimg all over like mad. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 06, 2009 - 05:46 pm: |
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My idle is good now.
Report results.
Regards. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 12:32 am: |
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Went to closed loop on the idle and help it jumping so much. I have a test guage and going to test fuel pressure in the morning. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 01:19 pm: |
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Ran the fuel pressure test and was within specs 45-51 psi! Buellistic how much did you extend your original wiring when relocating your IAT and with what guage wire ? |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 03:11 pm: |
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Hi Bosephus,
Around 50 mm long = 1.96850 in, behind the windshield over the headlamp, but I have installed a dual headlamp....
And the the same gauge wire.
Are you running with the Race ECM?... if you want could send me your eeprom to my email address buellisticx1@yahoo.es and I'll take a look in, I can change some values so your idle to be more smooth, such as Idle correction for Engine temp and warmup enrichment
Regards. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 06:51 pm: |
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I relocated the IAT even better today and for once my AFV stayed at 100 but I am still stalling at idle once hot !!!! |
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