| Author |
Message |
    
Fahren
| | Posted on Monday, May 18, 2009 - 09:13 pm: | 
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This problem is getting really annoying. The bike is stock except for breather re-route; just under 10,000 miles.
Symptoms: fully warmed up, running at 1/8 throttle or so anywhere from 2500rpm up to around 4000 (riding tonight, it was sputtering for as long as I held it at around 2500-2700 rpm, holding a steady, low throttle - could have kept it going like that the whole way home). It sputters/hesitates/misfires until I give it a good twist of the throttle.
One time when this happened as I was riding it, I got the Check Engine Light coming on, code 13: o2 sensor. It flashed intermittently on the next ride, but has not shown up again. ECMSpy showed no current or historical 02 sensor prob's.
Attempts (so far unsuccessful) to remedy:
1. Thought maybe the breather re-route work had messed up some wires, hoses, or other stuff under the airbox. Checked for pinched hoses, loose wires or connections.
2. Checked for any chafing or anything on plug wires.
3. Checked that the plug for the vacuum port on the throttle body was still in place (covering the CA emissions connection).
4. Pulled the 02 sensor wire up and farther away from the rear plug wire, even though it wasn't really up close against it (getting it away from elec. interference).
5. Pulled out the propane torch and checked for intake leaks down by manifold and injectors.
6. Changed plugs.
7. Did not pull battery to have it bench checked, but ECMspy shows good, solid voltage readings. On the other hand, at startup, the engine turns over once, then a slight pause, then several turns that start the engine. Worth looking into more?
8. I don't disconnect anything to take airbox cover off, so those connections are intact (sensor wiring on underside, and exhaust throttle module on top).
9. Did TPS and AFV reset w/ ECMSpy.
10. Have gone through new, 93 octane gas twice.
11. I would like to diagnose the 02 sensor operation, but I don't know how. I could just replace it, but I would rather go through the voltage checks and other service manual flow chart items before. How can I do this with ECMSpy, or do I need other equipment?
What is going on with this otherwise rock-solid bike?!? Please help!
(Message edited by fahren on May 18, 2009) |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 07:00 am: |
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TPS reset. |
Fahren
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 07:57 am: |
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Tried that already (#9). |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 09:43 am: |
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First, confirm the problem is related to just closed loop operation. Using ECMspy, under the diagnostics screen, turn the o2 sensor off. If the problem goes away, it is related to closed loop operation or the O2 sensor.
Some things that will cause this behavior:
1)bad O2 sensor
2)Bad O2 sensor ground
3)Leaky exhaust port gasket, allowing more O2 to get to the sensor than what actually came out of the engine
4)Chafed O2 sensor wire
Have you checked your AFV? Is it at or near what it has been in the past?
Have you checked for intake manifold seal leaks with a propane torch?
Al |
Fahren
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 10:05 am: |
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Al,
I checked yesterday for leaks w/ propane torch - no change to rpm, with propane puffing in around intake manifold and injectors. I'll glove up and cover exhaust outlet & check for exhaust leaks.
AFV was high when I ran ECMSpy, which is a new tool for me, so I don't know what value was before. But it was at 140 before I reset to 100.
I assume that the 02 sensor on/off//burn window on the ECMSpy diagnostic page will activate when I have my laptop hooked up to the bike again - as I sit here at my desk and fire up the program, there's no access to those windows (active muffler control/white cable/o2 sensor); I am switched to "professional" mode for fullest access to features. Once I click on "o2 sensor off," do I need to click on "burn" to effect the change?
Sorry for so many questions, but as I said, ECMSpy is new to me. I can follow directions well, but I am an ECMSpy newbie! |
Kalali
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 12:33 pm: |
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Every time you make a change in any of the "ECM" parameters, the program will ask you if you want to save the new settings right before you try to exit the program. Just follow what the program asks you. I always save the "last" and "current" configurations on my memory stick.
P.S. Under "normal" conditions, The AFV of 140 is a good indication of some sort of leak in the intake air path (or bad O2 sensor). At least for the rear cylinder. |
Fahren
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 10:05 pm: |
|
Logged a test ride today, prior to disconnecting anything. Ran horribly. Roughest ever; CEL came on, ECMSpy tells me no current trouble codes even though the light is lit, but historic codes are (14) Engine Temp Sensor Short to ground, and (13) O2 sensor always lean. TPS was higher than what I had set it at last week, AFV was back up to 128. I've attached the fuel maps, trouble codes and overview from ECMSpy for anyone who is willing to take a look and help diagnose.
Front Fuel Map:
Rear Fuel Map:
(Message edited by fahren on May 19, 2009) |
Kalali
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 01:55 am: |
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Fahran, I don't have ready access to ECMSPY right now to look at my maps but based on my many hours of looking at the maps for my X1, the fuel and timing (your second picture) maps seem generally OK. You could spend a little time to "smooth out" some of the cells (specially around idle RPM and TPS=10-15 range) but I see nothing causing the bike to run as bad as you described.
I would start with investigating what ECMSPY is telling you before messing with the maps, specially the timing map.
BTW, your IAT reading of 46C (~115F) appears to be a bit suspect as well and your TP is a bit too high if you cut the motor at idle. |
Fahren
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 09:03 am: |
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Darn it - grabbed a timing map image instead of the rear fuel map! I agree - no messing with maps right now - must fix basic bike issues first: focusing on Engine Temp sensor (possible short); probably go ahead and replace plug wires, since I just replaced plugs; get battery fully charged; dig into 02 sensor lean issue (check for exhaust leaks, etc); check static timing, tps reset (maybe a hard reset this time).
Does anyone know why the trouble codes would show up as historic, with nothing on current, when I am hooked up to the bike with the check engine light ON ? |
Kalali
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 11:59 am: |
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Regarding current vs. historic, I am guessing that your "current" issues were already registered in the history log and there are no additional "current" issues. You can experiment by disconnecting the IAT while the engine is running and see what gets registered. |
Fahren
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 02:23 pm: |
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I should have checked this before just about everything else: tightness of battery post connections, and tightness of ground connections to frame, under the seat. Simplest solution ever. Tighten up the contacts, and bike is fixed. Do I feel stupid for not checking this first? You bet.
Thanks for all the help - hopefully this thread can help others |
Kevigou
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 04:15 pm: |
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Test rode my new 06 xb12r today and EXACT same symptoms; I will check this first- it also seems to idle low, almost sounds like single cylinder operation...
After 4000 rpm and under accelleration it seems fine. I'm hoping it's the same thing as the guy said it has brand new plugs in it. Thanks |
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'06 xb12Ss really bad sputtering @ 2500-4000 rpm/low throttle