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Delta_one
Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok I just feel like I need to say this so please forgive me my ranting

I donít know how many of you live in states where a brain bucket is not required but here in Michigan it is and for good reason just like a seat belt it saves lives. I was stationed in Florida where I witnessed some of the most heinous of gear neglect. Flip flops shorts and a tank top donít do jack in a fall. But this is a bit more than that for meÖ just over a month and a half ago my family lost a member. Mu uncle was in a crash that proper use of a helmet would have saved his life guaranteed. I know all the arguments; visibility, weight, comfort, and the dot ratings only go up to 35 mph. But here are the facts there is a helmet that will combat every one of those issues. Furthermore the crash that took my uncle was not what you would think it was. On an early Sunday afternoon my uncle decided to take out his bike for a leisurely ride. Less than 2 blocks from home something went wrong. Nobody knows for sure what it was but he was found on the ground bleeding from his head. He was rushed to the hospital and found to have a shattered skull (not fractured but shattered) he was in a coma for nearly three months before his body finally let go. Now here is the fateful twist. The bike he was on was a pedal bike and the fall that killed him was far less than any motorcycle crash may ever be. So please for you and your family wear a helmet, motorcycle or bicycle they save lives.

Now I know I may be preaching to the choir but just in case I wanted to get the word out
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Court
Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You are, in fact, preaching to the choir but the lesson always bears repeating.

I went to visit my Mother in Topeka, KS last week. The day we arrived, in the intersection next to her house, there occurred the classic car turning left in front of the motorcycle accident.

This was an accident that most folks, properly clad, would have walked away from. The fellow, not wearing a helmet, had his head splattered like a tomato against the curb and died at the scene.

Tragic waste.
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Pso
Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 08:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Delta One-it does not take much of a jolt on the noggin to be able to measure brain damage. I hve tested a few police officers in my time with brain injuries. I have also worked with kids that have measureable cognative defects (most transitory, but can take up to a year to clear) from playing soccer.
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Lonewolfnavet
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Amen people!
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Delta_one
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

here is another gear lesson

A friend of mine bought all new top if the line gear for her neighbors son. He had just gotten his first bike. A month or so later he had died in a crash. He had all the gear that would have covered him head to foot, but instead he left if in the closet. The paramedics on the sean said that when they got to him he was already in such severe shock he had no chance. He rode with only his helmet on but didn't bother strapping it. But it was the slide that killed him. For whatever reason at 55 he had layer the bike down, from what anybody could tell it was a gentle low side because the bile was hardly marred at all. But he slid nearly 80ft in a t-shirt and jeans without gloves on.

*WARNING GRAPHIC!*

Most of his skin was gone. And his vital organs exposed. Some if them no longer in his body.
Had he been wearing gear he wound have walked away. His impact would have hardly left a bruise.

Please wear your gear. It is far too easy to keep people from dying in the street.
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Unsettledparadox
Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 09:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i stacked a 1200 sportster doing 10-15mph and tore out 3 fingers of the $80 carbon fiber knuckled gloves i was wearing, scuffed my boots and slightly ripped my levis.

thanks god i had the gloves on. i work with my hands for a living. i cant afford to lose the skin on a hand.

i was young and dumb once though. wearing a beanie helmet, sweatshirt and sunglasses doing 130mph down the freeway on my ninja 600
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Newbuellertoo
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A.T.G.A.T.T. Glad you are alright!
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Toecutter
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We are debating a mandatory helmet law in Wisconsin right now. We currently don't have one on the books, and I think that it should stay that way.

I personally wear my helmet, jacket, gloves, and boots every time I get on the bike. While I admit that a lot of the time I am wearing bluejeans, I do put on the pants if I am planning any hard riding.

That being said, I a completely opposed to a mandatory helmet law. I really don't care if it saves lives. For me it's a matter of personal freedom, and I am tired of giving the power to decide to somebody else.

It's about time that people step up and take the responsibility and the consequences that come with the decisions that they make, and stop depending on everybody else to save them from themselves.
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Steeleagle
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 08:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"It's about time that people step up and take the responsibility and the consequences that come with the decisions that they make, and stop depending on everybody else to save them from themselves."

I agree 100%. Spot on. But there's no mechanism to place that responsibility directly on those that place themselves at risk. My insurance rates aren't based on my behavior alone, but on that of the population. So my rates are high (or higher than they could be), even though my record is spotless. As long as I feel like I'm paying the expenses of somebody ELSE being stupid or feeling bulletproof, I'm hard pressed to oppose mandates like that. I hate that they seem necessary, but...
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S1125r
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 09:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Personal freedom is a great thing. However, people get much too caught up in the assumption that personal freedom means you can do whatever you want without considering others. Your rights end where mine begin. As Steeleagle posted, your decision not to wear a helmet affects me through insurance rates (which is only one example).

That being said, why be bothered that the government passes a law that requires you to do something that is actually intelligent that you should be doing of your own accord anyway? Declaring that you want to have the right to make terrible choices is not much of a logically sound answer, I'm afraid.
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Fahren
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Right. The Constitution does not give a person the right to do stupid things on a motorcycle.
The Constitution does grant us other rights that people have fought and been killed defending. And these matter: free speech, right to peaceable assembly, the right to a fair trial, the right to vote, etc. Try living in a country where you don't have these and other basic rights, then see if you sweat over helmet laws.
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Court
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>As Steeleagle posted, your decision not to wear a helmet affects me through insurance rates

I've long been an advocate of insurance companies basing coverage on the use of full face helmets.

I think you have a right to choose to wear one or not. I also think the carries should have the right, since they are calculating risk, to have a "no helmet - no (or limited) coverage. For instance they could exclude any injuries above the neck.

You have the right to act as stupid as you want. You do not have the right to send me the bill.

Several years ago my wife and I were on the Garden State Parkway. We're driving to the beach and I see two "yutes" stunting in heavy traffic . . . beanies, flip-flops . the works and weaving in and out of very heavy "headed to the beach" traffic.

As I was whining and griping about having to subsidize their insurance it occurred to me . . . I could come to the air of responsible riders everywhere.

I grabbed my Nikon DSLR with the 70-200VR telephoto.

When they came by us one was standing and the other was on the back wheel as they split lanes. I got what could be a prize winning photo clearly showing the riders face and the license plate.

It was a simple matter to get the owners's name and insurance company from the internet.

I sent them a wonderful glossy 8" x 10" in an effort to help them assign premiums based on the risk they were assuming.

Lots of folks have rights . . . not just stupid people.

Court
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Toecutter
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK, I've made my opinion abundantly clear that not wearing a helmet is a stupid thing to do. Even if you wear a helmet like I do, why are you not bothered by the possibility of no longer having the choice?

Why do people think that it is a good idea to give their freedoms up to a bureaucratic governing body instead of making these decisions for themselves? It is rationalized with safety, and the concern of the public good, but once that step has been taken, another one of our rights is gone for good. The frequency that we, the people are giving up our freedoms is on an exponentially increasing scale, and if we don't put a stop to it now, sooner rather than later, we will have ONLY the freedoms indicated in the Bill of Rights.

The Constitution and The Bill of Rights are not intended to limit and or grant the people freedom. They are intended to keep the government from infringing on the people's inherent freedoms.

That being said, I have no problem with an insurance company denying any claims of death or injury due to head trauma if it is found that a helmet was not worn. This is a private contract between the individual and the insurance company, it protects others insurance rates, and it still allows the individual choose.

(Message edited by toecutter on June 22, 2009)
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Fahren
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 05:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think Court is onto something there. We get better car rates if we have anti-lock brakes, or full airbags, or whatever. Some cars get better rates than others. So the ins. co's can offer rate scales based not only on bike type, but on safety gear worn.

I still think there is a big difference between freedom from helmet laws and freedom to speak or assemble freely, etc.
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Court
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 07:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ask yourself . . . . if you, for the paltry sum of several hundred $$$ a year . . . we going to enter into a contract to pay for any losses sustained by a motorcycle. . . would you want any assurances that certain normal operation would occur and wouldn't you . . . now in the business of assuming risk (all insurance is is a legal instrument for allocating and transferring risk) want to contain your risk within certain parameters such as "legal operation".

I have no interest in helmet laws. The idea that the same bunch of kooks who passed a couple trillion $$ spending bill without reading it can control this is ridiculous. Government is generally the poorest manager . . . at least up to this point.
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Road_thing
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You have the right to act as stupid as you want. You do not have the right to send me the bill.

Court, that's downright profound. Even as a life-long helmet-law-hater, I can't find an argument with your statement.

rt
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Court
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>Court, that's downright profound.

Confess it . . . you're damn glad I don't drink!

: )

P.S. - I am sitting here working in a Republic of Texas shirt that came with a Texas Care Package from Bastrop last week.
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Delta_one
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I get a better health insurance (and life for that matter) for not smoking and being a very light drinker. maybe they should advocate an all gear rider discount. but then again maybe they will discount the non helmet riders because the auto insurance will pay out less.. dead guys don't need bikes fixed. and should they live road rash sucks but medical covers that, and without skin they wont be to interested in paying a deductible to get the bike fixed.

and as for rights I dont care if the law says wear it or not mine stays strapped to my noodle.

freedom is a funny thing, I spent 18 years of life not understanding it at all. and now after a brief period in the military I am not willing to give an inch of it up. but we somehow keep selling and trading our freedom to "feel safe" because we are scared. Im sorry but when all your freedoms are gone,(and yes even those on that sacred piece of parchment will be taken away if we continue this route) you will truly know fear.
my freedom is worth a few hundred dollars extra every year in insurance premiums.


men and women have bled and died for this
we have no right to sell it.

not for any price.
my .02

(Message edited by delta_one on June 23, 2009)
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2008xb12scg
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just wondering, I'd be for insurance companys charging more for people that don't wear a helmet, fine. But let's say they tell the insurance co. they do, but they don't. When the insurer doesn't pay (as per contact?) who does? Me? You? not fair. Don't get me wrong I don't like having my rights taken away, but I don't want to pay for somebody who didn't wear a helmet either.
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2008xb12scg
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And BTW a helmet saved my Moms life last year. She road for years when she was younger with no helmet and decided to start riding again. Due to the helmet law she wore one and no longer complains about the law after her accident. And personally I'm grateful that because of that law I still have a mother.
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Everyone makes their own choices . . .


quote:

The accident occurred just after 3:30 p.m. The driver of the motorcycle suffered serious head injuries and was transported by ambulance to University Hospital where he was pronounced dead shortly thereafter, according to investigators at the scene.

The man was allegedly doing "wheelies" on his bike and failed to stop at the stop sign, when he struck another vehicle. The driver of the vehicle did not suffer injuries in the crash, said police.




Got home today and the front page of the paper is a wadded up motorcycle. . . another fatal, 20 year old with a permit on a "Crotch Rocket" who thought his tough guy status trumped a Buick. It didn't.

This is from last year . . . two bikes but you can't hardly see them.

Make your own choice.

I have lots to do.


Staten Island


The thing that DOES piss me off is these idiots doing this stupid crap on the same roads my family drives on. Darwin do your work.
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Delta_one
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think that is still insurance fraud and may become a state level infraction.

I am glad your Mom is ok

And as for darwin taking over... I just hope there are enough organs left over for someone that will take care if them


Early last year while going to the mall with my family we were passed by a GSXR 750 doing about 70 in a 35 zone with a park full of kids playing only 2 lanes away. He blew by us on his back tire, I remember looking in my mirror and only seeing exhaust and chassis. I nearly had my motorcycle dreams squashed by "the boss" right in that very moment because she was under the impression that I would be doing that too. Now add the typical SQUID clothing and flip flops and you can see why she wouldn't like my son to be without a father.

But how in the heck can a person ride and shift in flip flops in the first place? Forget desire; I don't have the ability!!
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Stwings
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 12:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Perhaps instead of trusting our congressional leaders to make this decision it should be on the ballot. Then regardless of the outcome, the PEOPLE have spoken.
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L8_br8ker
Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 07:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

just a small statistic, check the web if you're not sure if I am correct, if you go down, with a half hemet, chances are your face will sustain a bit of dammage, if you go down with a full helmet, best chances are , your face will be fine. wear gloves, your hands will be dammaged without them, and boots are a must for me, If you feel its too hot, you put yourself at risk for serious dammage. you can put together a serious set of full gear for about 400 dollars, less than the deductable for a hospital visit. If you think you will never crash anyway, please concider chances are, you will at some time, even if your a top racer, or a very experienced rider. It is true that no gear will help a lot if you are struck by a car or truck, but, the sad truth is without gear on, you will be injured, probably seriously, even at 20 mph, fi you are suited up, you can walk away from a 20 mph fall in most cases, with a scratched up helmet shield, and scuffed riding pants, thats a whole lot better than the hospital. I don't care about the laws, I love to ride, and a set of riding gear with a full face helmet is better than the alternative, its just common sense.
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