| Author | Message | ||
     jc (Troop) |
What works best/sounds good/lasts longest and has good durability ? V&H,WileyCo,SuperTrapp or Yoshi ? Opinions wanted for educated decision. Will be for 2000 M2. Thx | ||
| Jim Armstrong (Jima4media) |
jc (Troop), Get the above mentioned new Buell front bracket before installing any after market exhaust. I like the sound, and performance of the SuperTrapp IDS, but had problems with it coming apart and breaking at the inlet. The new model that I have is supposed to be better, but be sure it is installed correctly with the safety pin in place. I don't know of any after market pipes that have been completely reliable. Even the Buell race kit is currently under recall, and it is built like a tank. That's my 2 lira... Jim X-2.5 | ||
| Stan Headley (Eisanmann) |
Troop, I agree with Jim on the supertrapp. I've had the external disc on my S-3 for over 7k and have had no trouble with it. And the S-Trapp is also tunable. | ||
| 00' X-1 Race Stripe (Ccryder) |
Hey Troop: For a slip-on the White Brothers is the hardest to beat. No reliability problems. Tuneable, and great power/ torque. What else can I say? Time2clean Neil | ||
| mikej (Mikej) |
Just put a new exhaust on my '00 M2. WileyCo (in DragSpecialties catalog they say it's pronounced "VeeLay" or something like that). Installation went fairly okay. Makes access to the primary drain bolt impossible without dropping the muffler though. Maybe the 4 screws/bolts connecting the collector to the front of the muffler will make it fairly straight foreward though, and by only loosening the clamp screws/bolts it may swing down enough to drain the primary. This assumes the gasket between the collector and muffler doesn't disintegrate upon separation. Sound is much deeper than the stock muffler, a guy at the shop said he thought it sounded deeper and better and maybe a little quieter than the V&H mufflers. I took it for a short on-ramp-off-ramp romp, it's definitely louder than the stock muffler. Got a little reverb inside the helmet for a short section while on the throttle, might need earplugs with this one. The engine seemed to run a little free-er (spelling freer, freeer,frer, more free, nothing looks right). My M2 is/was still on the original exhaust isolator rubber grommets, so my bike seems to be easier on exhausts than some. Hopefully I won't have any exhaust problems like some have had with other systems. Power difference is hard to tell, it feels different now with the more easily flowing exhaust (frier? flowing). I did get a little 2nd gear wheelie by whacking the throttle some at a little over 3,000rpm, nice gentle lift and a gentle let down while still on the throttle somewhat. Seems like it took more effort with the stock exhaust so there is probably some gains in the torque curve. Says it has a lifetime guarantee, but don't know if that's worth anything seeing as how WileyCo is in Italy and I don't know if the local dealer will handle any problems or if I'll have to deal with the mfgr directly. Hopefully I won't need to find out. Anyway, here's a couple of fuzzy photos (I bought a muffler instead of a new camera, sorry).    | ||
| Philip A. Brewer (Fastback69) |
Is anyone running a Wileyco muffler? I only know of one person on the ATC forum that has one and he likes it. | ||
| jc (Troop) |
Thanks for the info MikeJ - I like the WileyCo(and V&H and SuperTrapp IDS). Guess it will be my personal Pref although reliability will weigh heavily(Buells !!). Either way it looks like I'll save several pounds in the switch huh !! Only pipe I have been able to hear is V&H and that makes decision tougher. Do you think the WileyCo will be too loud over time/after break-in ? I do believe some things can be too loud in the "pigpen"(5 police live in my neighbor hood) !! | ||
| mikej (Mikej) |
WileyCo has a carbonfibre version as well if you want to save more weight, about $50-$75 more than the stainless steel version. Also, it seems the more recent SS ones have been arriving with the collector polished up. It's still basically a straight pipe like the old glasspacks on cars, but the internals do somehow quiet it down some. I'd say it's a little quieter and maybe deeper than a V&H. The outlet is turned more to the side than the stock unit, so I do feel the exhaust puffing on my foot when stopped with my left foot down. I guess I should add that they include some goodies in the box like a hat, a t-shirt, a decal, a logo pin, and a heavy key fob that looks like their muffler. Anyway I'll post a followup after I run it in a bit, or if it shows any problems, or if I get any noise complaints. | ||
| BigHairyRalph (Ralph) |
Except for the bolt on front flange it looks just like a Buell race muff. I gotta tell ya, I find the bolt on flange just a little scary. I like the race cans slip on fit. I think the little bit of flex built into that is one reason they don't break. Like the rear mount though, no problems with flex there. And hey, a hat, woo hoo! (sorry mike, I could'nt pass it up). Hey, if you do have problems with the front mount, you could always have a Buell race can style welded on. Hopefully it won't need it. Okay, so now you guys throw in my face the race can recall. Fine, how about this; How many race cans have you heard having problems? I've heard of two or three. I've not had any problems in 34,000 miles. How many problems have you heard from V&H? I don't count that high. Many of the other makers have had similar problems. | ||
| Peter Moltmann (Peter) |
mikej, What size is your collector on the headers? 2 or 2-1/2"? If it is 2-1/2", does the muffler stay at that sixe, or is it reduced to 2"? I heard somewhere that they were reduced. They were going to fax me a dyno copy of a comparisson between theirs and a V&H muffler, but it never arrived. I'm curious how good they are. Will you be dynoing it at all? PPiA | ||
| mikej (Mikej) |
Looks like it's 2" in and 2" out. The stock exhaust is 2-1/2" in and 2" out. Regardless, it seems to work well. My local shop had a dyno sheet comparing it against a V&H. Both curves were fairly smooth, with the WileyCo giving an earlier torque rise, and slightly higher overall numbers. Top end peaks were close. Sorry, I don't recall the numbers. I'm waiting for the bad weather to hit before I do some maintenance work to the bike. I might dyno it after that, but right now it's looking like sometime after Christmas before I might hit the dyno room. I'll post the numbers and the sheet/curve if I do (and if I can get an electronic copy of the dyno sheet, I think the dyno spits out a jpeg or gif doesn't it?). I'm thinking if I do the dual carb thing I may want to go with 2-1/2" in and out, but if I do I'll see how this one works first. | ||
| jc (Troop) |
Got an e-mail from WileyCo that states the collector on U.S. model pipes is 2 1/2" at header and reduced to 2" at muffler inlet. They stated that dyno tests showed this set-up had better HP/torque curves on street only bikes. Don't know but I can't argue as I'm sure it wouldn't be any harder to make inlet a straight 2 1/2 " pipe ?? Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse carries this pipe for $235./shipped. Good price I think but I will check locally first. | ||
| mikej (Mikej) |
The 2-1/2" to 2" step down happens right at the mouth that goes over the header end, just one step and no taper. Sort of shows up in the fuzzy photo. My price was a shade lower than that with a local discount. | ||
| Nikolakis (Nikolakis) |
Is anyone running a Kooks System. If so how does it work for you. Any problems. I have a 98 S3T and according to Battle2Win the Kooks worked great on a bike like mine. Let me know | ||
| Gerald Troxler (Gtagrip) |
I've been using a Kooks system for about six months and so far love it. I talked to George Kook Jr.and he helped me with jetting recomendations and any other info I needed. I had mine coated with Jethot Sterling,and it's easy to clean and maintain and looks great too. They are a touch expensive, but the quality of worksmanship is there.I have since buying mine heard of problems with ground clearence, but as yet have had any problems of my own. As for performance, I test rode an X1 with the race kit and compared to my 98 S3T with the Kooks system could not notice any difference. Have put about 2,000 miles and have had no exhaust bushing problems either. E-mail me for a phone # and I can possibly answer other questions you may have. | ||
| Anonymous |
My brother and I just bought two M2's. He's getting the borla exhaust and I was planning on picking up the daytona boss. Whats better in terms of how loud,hp and torque? I want to make sure my bikes faster or at least equal. thanks for any info | ||
| Dave McGowan (Holligandave) |
I'm the proud owner of a 2000 X1 and am considering replacing the stock exhaust. Since I'll have to change the ECU, what choices do I have? I heard a lot about the Power Commander but no others. If I do go with the Power Commander or any others, do I have to replace the O2 sensor?? One last thing about the Power Commander, can a non mechanic like myself install-program it without too much trouble?? I will add a K&N filter to finish off this upgrade. | ||
| Christophe (Frenchbuelldog) |
About the Wileyco : i've heard of breaking problems only with the carbon one , the stainless is very good , only a little less than the V&H . I'll buy one , when i'll have the money ...... From France Chris | ||
| mikej (Mikej) |
I was reading on the ATB web site yesterday and saw that apparently a person from WileyCo is active on the forums there. I think she said she was the president/owner/engineer of the exhausts, or something like that, anyway go to the ATB web site and you'll find her comments. A couple of hundred miles on mine and all is well, but that's hardly enough miles to comment on. And as we all full well know, each of our bikes are unique and affect or react to components often uniquely, one person will have no problems and another person with an identical component will have nothing but problems. Such is life. | ||
| Drew K (Cyclonem2drew) |
When you change the muffler on the M2 to aftermarket, do you need to adjust or replace the stock carburetor? Any other mods needed? I want to replace mine on my '00 M2, but I'd be doing it mainly for sound/safety purposes...in stock form the cars just don't hear you coming! | ||
| mikej (Mikej) |
Hi Drew, You should probably adjust your jetting, but you kind of have to do that anyway even with the stock air filter and stock exhaust. Political comment/opinion: Changing the exhaust to make it louder with the assumption that if a car driver hears you then it will be a safer situation for you as a rider .... is a false assumption in my opinion. I've had drivers looking right at my eyes right in front of them in an intersection on a clear day and still they started to go as if they were deliberately trying to run me over, and then all of a sudden seem to wake up to the fact that there is a motorcycle (or bicycle) in front of them and their eyes widen as though they just saw a ghost and they slam on their brakes indicating to me that they were'nt deliberately trying to run me over but instead had just zoned out and had tuned out everything except other cars and big trucks. Of course I've also had people pull out in front of me while I was driving a big pickup too. To me, "louder is safer" is not a valid argument. Other's have other opinions. I made this small to make it easier to page-down past it. :) I changed my exhaust to improve performance, and to slightly improve ground clearance. The fact that it might annoy one specific Milwaukee motor officer is just a bonus. (Shame on me for that.) If you like the looks of an aftermarket exhaust then go for it, if you like the sound then go for it, if you like the performance gains then go for it. But louder is not a guarantee of being safer, I've seen cars move right without looking because they thought the loud bikes they heard were going to pass on the left instead of take the offramp to the right. Do what you gotta and wanta do. | ||
| Drew K (Cyclonem2drew) |
Mike - Thanks for the insight...I won't make the mistake of assuming someone hears me coming! I had an experince just last weekend where someone was looking right at me and still just didn't register that I was actually there...the slamming on of brakes, look of panic, and "sorry" wave came soon afterward...good thing the M2 has good brakes! | ||
| mikej (Mikej) |
Drew, Yep, and sorry if I sounded preachy. Ride like you're invisible, but not invincible, but know that no matter how invisible you are the cops can still see you (unless one is riding with you). I will say though, that truck driver here at work today definitely liked the sound of the WileyCo on my M2. Almost time to go home, time to go make some noise. ;) | ||
| 00' X-1 Race Stripe (Ccryder) |
MikeJ: Great words to LIVE by about riding like your invisible but not invincible! In reference to FI bikes, my preference is still the White Brothers e-series, Buell Race ECM, K&N, Gutted airbox, and Torquemaster plugs. Great HP and broad torque, but I will admit that the Borla single sounds just a little better, not as metallic. Too bad it doesn't perform like the W.B.. You can expect ~92hp & ~77ft-lb torque, with 70ft-lb from 3k up! CAUTION don't peg the throttle in first or second gear at 3,500-4,000 rpm, you will launch the front end. Power Commander: IMHO for the price of the P.C. & O2 sensor, you can buy the Race ECM, slip-on of your choice, K&N and torque masters. Just my $0.02 and I'm taking it out and going for a ride, later. Neil | ||
| 00' X-1 Race Stripe (Ccryder) |
Just a quick pic. of the E-series:  It really is small compared to the Supertrap and the Borla, and shorter than the V&H. Neil | ||
| Jasonl (Jasonl) |
CCRyder - That e-series...is that an external disc muffler like the old-style supertrapp? If not how does the exhaust exit? | ||
| Aaron Wilson (Aaron) |
Okay, I'll step in here and disagree with Mike, what the hell, I'm bored ... "Changing the exhaust to make it louder with the assumption that if a car driver hears you then it will be a safer situation for you as a rider.... is a false assumption in my opinion" Sure, there are lots of brain dead drivers, but many of them are not, and I do believe there are situations where a loud exhaust alerts a driver to your presence when he otherwise might not be aware of it and I do believe that many of those drivers will then avoid changing lanes on top of you or whatever. In fact, I'll go farther than that ... I've seen it happen, to me. And as a cager, there have been plenty of times when I was alerted to the presence of a motorcycle by hearing him before I saw him. Now, absolutely, if a person thinks he can somehow ride less defensively because he has a loud exhaust, he's kidding himself. But that's not issue ... the issue is that we need all of our defenses, everything we can use is often not even enough, but we need to put the odds in our favor as much as possible. I can draw an analogy to using your headlight in the daytime. It presumably makes you easier to see. It makes you safer, but not safe. Anyone who thinks it automatically protects him will get hurt in a hurry. But I still ride with it on, because it helps. I want every advantage. Or, I can draw an analogy to a radar detector. People who use it as a substitute for being alert and watching for cops WILL get a ticket anyway. But, it can be a great help. I want every advantage. Anyway, you get my point ... See ya, AW | ||
| mikej (Mikej) |
oh boy oh boy i get to argue with aaron oh boy finally a bright spot to this friday an otherwise druid day Actually Aaron, you didn't disagree with me, you reinforced the point I was trying to make in a way. Getting a louder exhaust for safety reasons is not valid, but it does add to the safety, yet at the same time it can add to unpredictable reactions in cagers or other riders that you're not grouped with. Basically, a louder exhaust is just another variable in the equation of the bike vs traffic interactions. Consider this, let's say a cager likes bikes, hears you coming up from behind, and starts to do the gopher-head routine trying to see the bike he/she hears. Now, being distracted by the bike the driver is now less attentive to the traffic - wham. Or, to put it in a totally different context, I've had someone tell me their boom-box-thumper sound system is safer because other drivers hear them coming - but it just annoys me. Or to put it in another different way, what if you are riding on a freeway with a concrete barrier wall causing the sound echo to make the driver think you are on the other side of them. Bottom line, as I see it, buy an exhaust system for better performance, or buy it because of looks or sound, but don't buy it with safety as the reason, or at least not as the primary reason. If safety is the primary reason to buy a loud exhaust, then it would be better to run straight pipes with one pointed diagonally foreward, and a second outlet pointed diagonally backward in the opposite direction. I mean if you're going to make some noise then MAKE SOME NOISE. But don't try to tell me the loud exhaust is for safety, otherwise the neighbor HOG rider who gets home everynight after the bars close and pops his throttle at his garage door is doing so to keep people from pinning him between their bumper and his garage door. Nope, he does it because he likes the sound. Yes, I agree, and yet I disagree too. The only thing the straight pipes ever knowingly did for me on my Knucklehead was to get me a ticket for excessive noise/defective exhaust in a small eastern Washington town at 4am on one ride. But apart from that I did like the way they sounded, especially on a moonlight ride over a mountain pass with the exhaust tones echoing off the valleys and trees and thru the river canyons. Hmmm, thinking about it, I've even had more close calls with cars while riding a bike in daylight with the headlight on than I did when riding a bike with the headlight off. But the no-daylight headlight riding _was_ back in the 70's and maybe people had more of an adversion to "biker" interactions than they do today. Hmmm, maybe I need to go dig out the denim ratty jacket and find a headlight-optional bike and do some tests just as an experiment.... nah, those days are best left behind. But it was fun riding a headlight optional bike with no front brake and straight pipes and a squeeze-bulb bicycle horn. Fun? Yes. Safe? No. But I've had more close calls on the Buell than I did on the Knuck. Draw your own conclusions. | ||
| 00' X-1 Race Stripe (Ccryder) |
Jason: Good eyes. It is a disc type muffler. It differs from the Supertrap because it is oval vs: round. Also the mounts are BEEFIER than anybody elses. It is hard to see but the rear mount is actually very nice CNC'd billet support. Time2Run Neil | ||
| Koen van der Linden (Grizz) |
Okay, this time I'll step in for once. Aaron: Safety can be found in many ways. Lets look at the speed issue(radar detector). Safety in a moving vehicle has little to do with speed. If everyone moves in the same direction with the same speed there is little chance on accidents. Accidents happen when vehicles start to manoeuvre inexpectedly. One of those manouvres is hitting the breakes when you hear/see the radar detector signal. That manoeuvre is one of the causes of many accidents over here. So talking about savety AND radardetection at the same time....eeehhh.....??? It will possibly lower the amount of tickets I agree :+). just my 0,02 $ (I know this should be on the GDB) Grizzly "may the BUELL be with you" '00 X1 | ||
| LeeM2 (Leeaw) |
Neil, No repacking and a beefy mount. Can you drain primary fluids without taking the muffler off? I get tired of that with the V&H and with the packing blowing out. BTW,how is your fairing project coming? | ||
| Aaron Wilson (Aaron) |
Aww Griz, you're confused. I wasn't relating radar detectors to safety, I just used that as an analogy. I know people who think detectors are useless because you might get a ticket anyway. Just like some folks think loud pipes don't enhance safety because you might get hit anyway. One has nothing to do with the other, except the perspective is the same: if it's not 100%, it's not worthwhile. I just don't see it that way, on either issue. Mike's a smart guy, he knows better, I was just yankin his chain a little. Like I said, I'm bored. Funny thing, despite a possible slight safety advantage for loud pipes, I actually like the stealthiness of the stock system. I like to be able to romp on it sometimes without attracting too much attention. But, I run the loud stuff just because I like the torque. When they can make a quiet one that doesn't have that hole in the torque curve, it'll be on my bike. Now, if you want to debate the safety of detectors, we could do that ... See ya, AW | ||
| Koen van der Linden (Grizz) |
Nah mate, I reread your stuf... Your right I was confused. I do can tell a little about safety, if and when its apropriate. I'm making a living of it and lately I'm involved in giving advanced courses for motorbike riders. Ciao Grizzly "may the BUELL be with you" '00 X1 | ||
| J.V. (Rdrage) |
I'm thinking of getting the Kooks system for my 2000 X-1. Does anyone have any pics of an x-1 with this system?? any opinions on this system?? Is it going to wake up the neighborhood when I go to work at 6AM???? I hope so :-)~ | ||
| Gerald Troxler (Gtagrip) |
J.V. I work shift work and when working days I leave at 4:30, when working nights come home about 5:30, have not had any complaints from my neighbors. Although I do tend to respect the neighbors by taking it real easy in and out of the street. I heard once upon a time somewhere about Kook's working on a quieter muffler though. You might check with them and inquire about the quieter muffler deal. Hope this helps some | ||
| Drew K (Cyclonem2drew) |
Alright...my technical ignorance is REALLY gonna get me flamed on this one, but here goes... What is the difference between a "Slip On" muffler and a regular one? Which type is the factory OEM muffler? What are the advantages to a slip-on design (if any)? Which is better for the high-vibration Buell engine? Hate to ask, but hey, how else do you learn, right? | ||
| mikej (Mikej) |
Slip on is simply one tube slipping over another, a sink drain is usually a slip-joint with a lock ring. I believe the OEM is considered a slip-on style, but then you get into what side of the support bracket things are on and how one interprets that issue. Some say it's only a slip-on if it slip-onto the end of the collector, others say if it doesn't bolt on with a flange then it's a slip-on. I don't care as long as it works and doesn't fall off. As far as your others questions I'll let someone else answer that as it tends to get subjective. | ||
| Drew K (Cyclonem2drew) |
Has anyone tried the Two Brothers Racing exhaust for the M2? | ||
| Daniel Kaplan (Djkaplan) |
Just got a V&H. It looks like it has the revised front mount. Any suggestions before I install?. It seems like it's hit or miss when it comes to preventing cracking at the mounting points. Can't wait to hear this thing! Danimal | ||
| Philip Giusto (X96283) |
Welp! Just got a Supertrapp. What's the recommended number of disks? I got a stock 00 M2 with a Force intake . . . Thanks, results to be posted soon. giusto 00m2 oahu |
