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Buellisticx1
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 08:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Has anyone tell me How do I determine if the bearings rear wheel are bad?. especially on pulley side

have a X1 with 44.000K on it (PM wheels) and never I replaced them.

When I was replacing the tires, I realized that the bearings rear wheel on pulley side spining in the wheel bore and I don’t know if this is good or on the contrary, not so good.....

Also, has anyone know the tool for the replacement?...

Any thoughts or ideas?

ANY IDEAS WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.


Thanks in advance.
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Bad_karma
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 02:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jose
Sorry to be the bad guy but that wheel is toast. Your belt tension is or was at one time too high. I lost my first PM to that situation thanks to the BMC Service manual. I had a place some where in the state of Tennessee said that he could repair the wheel. I think he was listed in one of the major American cycle magazines. I hope to get it done this year.
Joe
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 09:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Joe,
Many thanks for your quick reply.

I would like to tell you that is the outer bearing of the rear wheel on pulley side was spining in the wheel bore and I don’t know if this is right or on the contrary, not so normal....., but I have not noticed anything unusual on/off the bike, it’s goes fine.

Do you think that I replacing the old bearing with other new one it’s will repair the problem or this is normal.

Thanks again.

Jose

(Message edited by buellisticx1 on April 29, 2008)
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Blake
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The outer race of the bearing must not spin inside the wheel hub. So you do indeed have a problem that needs urgent resolution. However, the wheel is likely okay and easily repaired.

Depending upon how much damage has been done, you may find very easy/simple resolution via Loctite 642, which is designed to fill gaps between mating cylindrical parts (bearing race and seat) and then help hold them in place while still allowing removal/disassembly of the bearing(s) in the future.

Other solutions include having the wheel hub knurled, or if all else fails the best professional solution is to have the wheel hub remachined for over-sized bearings or for a press-fit and permanently retained sleeve that will allow use of the standard sized bearings.

Be sure to check belt tension and run it a little loose, at least 1.5" of free play at mid-span when rear suspension is completely unloaded (fully extended).

(Message edited by blake on April 29, 2008)
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Blake
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't see the Loctite 642 on the Espania loctite site, but it looks like Loctite 641 is equivalent to the 642.

Espania Loctite 641 Page : )

Your local bearing supply store should be able to advise you on what locally available product will best serve your needs.
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Blake
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 02:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interestingly, another thread by another author is in progress concerning the very same subject...

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/357207.html
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks a lot Blake, your support is greatly appreciated.

I will looking for Loctite 641 or 642 for here, I don't think it hard to find.

I will let you know.

Regards.

Jose.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 03:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You are welcome. Good luck!
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 07:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have installed the rear wheel bearings today, I used Loctite® 648 - High Temperature Retaining Compound(Recommended for retaining parts with a clearance or interference fit, i.e. retaining bushes, bearings, seals, fans, and liners.

Especs:
• Strength Required: High
• Handling Strength (at room temperature on steel joints): 5 min.
• Diametrical Clearance: up to 0.15 mm
• Temperature Resistance: 175°C

I took the bike for a long ride and when I go back to my home I saw that it already not spun over the wheel bore, At least by now,

Many thanks again.

Regards
Jose.

(Message edited by buellisticx1 on April 30, 2008)

(Message edited by buellisticx1 on April 30, 2008)
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Success or failure?

Might be tough to remove that bearing if/when required, but a little heat should help. Unless of course it already came loose.
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 05:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Blake,

The guy of the store said me that when I have to replace it, first I will need to apply heat, like you say.

The Loctite 648 fill up to 0.15 mm and Loctite 641/642 fill up to 0.1 mm, anyways the outer bearing inserted in fitted

I hope that it last.

Regards

(Message edited by buellisticx1 on May 01, 2008)

(Message edited by buellisticx1 on May 01, 2008)

(Message edited by buellisticx1 on May 01, 2008)
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Jackbequick
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"..Might be tough to remove that bearing if/when required..."

Here are some ways to do it that I've had to use in the past.

1 - Pry the seal off, usually a scribe or awl will work for that.

2 - Lift the stamped steel ball spacer, breaking the spot welds or rivets loose. Then grab it with needle nosed pliers and remove it.

3 - The lower spacer will still be in place below the balls. Tap it down with a small punch (1/8" or so) it will drive the lower seal out and the spacer ring will follow. Crowd the balls and pry up the spacer and remove it with needle nose pliers. Or push it down into the wheel hub with the punch.

4 - As this progresses, the balls can be crowded together and you may be able to pull the lower spacer out. All this can be accomplished without any damage to the wheel. The bearing of course, is history if it was not already so at the start.

5 - Crowd all the balls together on one side and you will be able to move the inner race away from the balls to the open area. Some force may be required, but they got them in this way, so you can get them out. Balls may start falling out at this point, if not tap the center most one down or try to pry it up.

6 - With one ball out they should all fall out and the inner race can be removed leaving the outer race in place.

Heating the hub should lessen the grip on the outer race and let you pull it with normal bearing pulling techniques. If that fails, if you can get someone to run a bead a TIG welding along the race for about 1/3rd or 1/2 of the diameter, the race will fall out when the weld has cooled. The weld will increase the amount of shrinkage on the race as it goes from hot to cool and the race will be several thousandths of an inch smaller than it was before it was welded.

A very good arc (SMAW) welder, using a small rod (1/16" or 3/32" or so), protective pastes to protect the wheel from spatter, and all his skill and cunning, may be able to do the welding if a TIG welder is not to be had.

I have also used a Dremel tool to cut an inner race into two or three pieces to remove it and the seals and balls or rollers.

If you have to defeat LocTite it usually takes a heat of 700F to 800F or so. Maybe more for some products, look for the specs for the product if in doubt. But the temps will not normally be enough to damage an aluminum wheel.

But if you are using a heat source that is hotter than 1100F (a propane or acetylene torch for example) you are in danger of the flame causing the aluminum wheel to melt (aluminum has a 1220F +/- melting point) if you apply the flame directly to the wheel and to one spot for too long.

A small propane mini-torch is a good choice for apply heat directly to the race. You can find those many hardware/tool stores. If in doubt, ask the local crack smokers where they are getting theirs and be prepared for some strange looks when you go there to buy one.

A heat gun is the best way to do the heating, those will usually attain heats of up around 800F.

For the Metrically inclined, subtract 32 from the Fahrenheit temperatures, then multiply by 5 and divide by 9 to convert to Centigrade.

Jack
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds good José! Thanks for taking time to share the outcome. And come back and read Jack's post above when you are ready to replace that bearing. : )
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jackbequick,
Many Thanks for your report, it's very complete, I will take into account.....

Best regards.

Jose.

(Message edited by buellisticx1 on May 01, 2008)
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Bad_karma
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 12:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


Excellent information Jack.
Thanks
Joe
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm going to a trip the next weekend around 300 Km (480 miles), when I come back to my home, I will take a look at the rear wheel outer bearing and will let you know.

Regards.
Jose.
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

sorry!!, 300 Km = 187.5 Miles.

OK!!, I have come back to my home today, after ride 300 Km around and I a look at the outer bearing and it still goes Ok!!

I hope it lasts!!

Many Thanks for your support Blake,Jackbequick,Bad_karma....
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Bad_karma
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 02:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jose
Great to hear.
Joe
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