| Author | Message | ||
     Egille |
Alright, so I just bought a 2000 M2 with 4k miles on it. The thing has the factory tires on it and everything. I replaced the tires and changed all the fluid. The primary seemed pretty low (less than one quart.) There were also metal shavings on the magnet. I adjusted the primary chain, and the adjuster is almost all the way in. I checked the chain again today and it's way loose (probably about an inch of free play.) Does anyone have any advice? I'm thinking about pulling the cover. Also, I can't find any website that sells replacement Buell engine or trans parts. Any help here? Thanks, Erik | ||
| Fasted |
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| Xldevil |
adjusted the primary chain, and the adjuster is almost all the way in. I checked the chain again today and it's way loose (probably about an inch of free play.) Does anyone have any advice? I'm thinking about pulling the cover. Probably the adjuster ground plate is broken. Switch to the later thicker version and that´s it.P/N should be 39975-90A Chain Adjuster Assy.   Ralph | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Ralph has identified your problem. It's a fairly low-effort fix too. Go look at the sponsor's section and you'll find the needed parts. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That plate can break completely and come free as well, so I wouldn't start it again until you get that cover off and check it. Its an easy job, get the new metal primary cover gasket. Its more expensive, but reusable. This brings back fond tuber memories  Pull out the screws in the derby cover a few turns at a time going in a circle, otherwise the cover will get cocked and bind a screw, and you will strip it. What kind of front exhaust hanger do you have? A big beefy upside down Y looking thing (good)? Or the old style front hanger? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Oh, and take the service manual advice on belt tension with a grain of salt... After destroying a 5th gear drive assembly following what I thought to be the manuals recommendation, I then ran it "scary loose". To me, that is loose enough that you can sit on the bike, reach down with your hands, and push the belt to *just* touch the swingarm under moderate tension. And while you are at the dealer, you might want to get a new set of rocker box gaskets . 4000 miles is about the time the first one goes... A great bike, I really enjoyed my 00 M2. | ||
| Egille |
Thanks guys. The first reply was disheartening, but the rest have been really helpful. The local dealer kinda sucks, but there is a former mechanic from that dealer that owns his own shop and has been really great. I bought a gasket from him today and a quart of gear lube. I'll take a look at it tomorrow and see what the deal is. Hopefully it is something easy, but I have heard that the primary drive and gearboxes of tube Buells are often ignored due to their drain and adjustment locations. I love the bike and don't figure on letting a little work scare me out of it. My teeth were cut working on a 30 year old Jap-bike... nuff said. Erik | ||
| Reepicheep |
Its a straightforward job... You will have enjoyed it in hindsight | ||
| Egille |
Okay, so I pulled the cover. Cake. The chain looks awfully loose. It hangs below the primary case. The tensioner plastic is toast, it's damn near cracked off on both sides. I checked the position of the tensioner on the chain, relative to the bottom of the primary case and it still seems a tad bit long. I'm assuming the chain is bad. I have begun pulling the sprockets and chain, but want to make sure the chain is bad before moving on. Any methods I should know about? I don't have a service manual so anything will be useful. Thanks. Erik | ||
| Bad_karma |
Erik that sounds a little lose but I would reinstall the cover with the new adjuster sans gasket and oil and adjust the chain to see if you can get it to about 3/8" movement. Rotate the chain around and check in several places. If you can adjust it(which I believe you will be able to)disassemble install gaskets, o-rings and seal. The seal around the shifter shaft will be the challenge, or at least it is for me. And oil. Joe (Message edited by bad_karma on April 10, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
The old online S1 service manual provides the proper procedures for chain maintenance and replacement. If you ever need it, there's a link to it on the "Knowledge Vault - Manuals..." page. | ||
| Xldevil |
the seal around the shifter shaft will be the challenge, or at least it is for me. I always wrap some teflon tape around the splined part of the shaft.This protects the seal.And give the inside of the seal a good lubrication. Btw.I don´t believe that a primary chain is done after such a short distance. Actually I never heard of worn out primary chain at all. Ralph | ||
| Road_thing |
Egille: The primary chain always looks loose with the cover off, because the tensioner comes off with the cover. I'm with Ralph--I've never seen a primary chain worn out, but I'm not a pro mechanic. rt | ||
| Djkaplan |
Road_thing is right. Just replace the tensioner shoe. You might want to retorque your rotor nut to the higher specs (220 ft*lbs - double check to be sure) while you have the primary off. | ||
| Djkaplan |
And make sure you don't overfill the primary... it doesn't take a full 32 ounces to get the oil up to the clutch basket sprag. | ||
| Djkaplan |
There were also metal shavings on the magnet. Shavings are normal (chunks are not!). | ||
| Egille |
Well, since this is my first time inside one of these things, I was unsure about the loose chain bit. However, after checking out some Sportster forums and looking at my buddy's Sportster tensioner, I realized the the chain being loose and the fact that my shoe had chain wear marks in it over a 1/4" deep, were probably related... Oh well. I'm going to install the new tensioner and try rotating the engine assembly until I find the tight spot and adjust it. Should it be 3/8" total movement cold or 3/4" total movement cold (total movement = up + down movement.) Thanks. Erik | ||
| Blake |
What does the manual say?... (total freeplay) The old online S1 service manual (see page 1-21) provides the tolerances for the chain adjustment. That said, I and others tend to use the upper/looser end of the specifications. Anywhere from 1/2" to 3/4" total has proved good. Just be sure to find the tight spot and adjust there. Because aluminum alloy expands with temperature increases at twice the rate of the steel chain, when the engine/tranny cases heat up and expand they cause the chain tension to increase, thus the reason for an apparently loose chain at room temperature. Too loose is WAY better than too tight, which can lead to bearing failure, very bad. Good luck with your new tensioner install. Be sure to check chain tension within a thousand miles or so as the new tensioner will wear-in fairly quickly and require adjustment. After that, minimal adjustment should be required at the normal service intervals. | ||
| Egille |
Okay, I replaced the tensioner. Got the bike back together. However, after adjusting the clutch, the damn thing will not release. I've tried and tried to get the clutch to release but with no avail. The thing rolls beautifully in neutral, and if I turn the adjuster screw all the way in and pull the lever (it will only pull about a 1/3 of a pull) then it sort of releases. I checked the clutch spring motion while pulling the cable too, and it definitely moves. I did add just a little more fluid than necessary, only because I wanted to ensure that the tensioner was getting plenty of lube to break in right. It sits just below the level of the derby cover. Would that do it? Any suggestions? Erik (Message edited by egille on April 11, 2008) | ||
| Mikej |
There are two adjustment points, if I recall correctly, on my M2. One is on the primary cover where the cable goes into the cover. The other adjustment point is about halfway up the bike around the middle of the cable, hiding in plain sight. I don't have a closer pic handy:  Look right behind the rear of the front fender, and just in front of the framework, and just below the front exhaust pipe, see that bigger portion of clutch cable? There's an adjuster in there. This may or may not be your issue. I'm unsure if this is where you've been adjusting your cable at or not. | ||
| Road_thing |
Egille: Did you adjust the clutch at the adjuster under the derby cover first? Go to the S1 Service manual Blake linked above if you're not sure how to do this--your M2 works the same way. It's easy--just remove the derby cover and follow the instructions in the book. If you don't get that adjustment right, no amount of fooling with the adjuster on the cable (see Mikej's post above) will get the clutch to work properly. Also, if you've overfilled the transmission, even a little bit, you'll probably get some oil puking out of the transmission breather. It could oil your rear tire--generally not a good thing. Be careful with that. rt | ||
| Reepicheep |
And follow the instructions for putting the screw back in that ramp assembly... I think you put it in until it *lightly* bottoms, then back it up a quarter turn. Torque that screw down even finger tight, and your clutch will not work right. You recovered all the parts from the broken chain tensioner, right? No shrapnel floating around in there? | ||
| Jackbequick |
And make sure you back the cable length adjuster all the way off (making the clutch lever all loose and floppy at the bar) before you adjust the screw as Reep describes. After you adjust the screw, then lengthen the cable, pull the lever two or three times to set and settle the clutch pack, and then adjust the clutch lever for free play at the bars. This is not a complicated thing but has to be done the right way and in the right sequence. Jack | ||
| Egille |
Thanks guys. What I did was remove the derby cover and adjust the screw in until I felt slight resistance, then I backed it off a quarter turn. I then pulled the lever three times and tested the clutch. I'll try loosening the clutch cable at the front of the bike this weekend, then re-adjust the screw, then tighten up the cable again and go from there. From my other mechanical work on bikes, the screw has only set the pre-load on the clutch spring. You back off a 1/4 turn to avoid pre-loading the clutches (just like on a car or truck.) The cable adjustment is merely to remove slack in the cable and lever pull. Could too much oil (4-8 oz more than recommended) cause the clutches to hang up in the clutch drum? Erik | ||
| Jackbequick |
Backing that screw off takes the load off of the bearing that the screw will start pulling on as soon as the lever clutch lever is moved a short distance. Think of it as a throw out bearing and the 1/4 turn back off relieves the pressure on it. That 1/4 turn of relief also allows the pressure pack to apply the full clamping force to the driven plates. The real issue is that if you do not slack the cable first and make the lever floppy before adjusting the screw, the arm that the clutch cable is attached to and pulls on is not at it's fully retracted position. It is being held slightly forward by the tension on the cable. If you look at that arm as you adjust the screw and find the "lightly seated" point, the arm will or should move to the right and contact a hard stopping point as the screw comes down against it. And you want it to be all the way to the right with no pulling from the cable as you find the contact point. If you did not slack the cable the arm will be a little to the left and you've lost some of the travel for disengaging the clutch. If you continue to turn the screw after it contacts the bearing it has the same effect as if the clutch lever is being pulled. It starts pulling the pressure plate back and relieving the pressure on the clutch plates. If you try to cure that by lengthening the cable to get more disengagement, you are both putting a full time pulling load on the bearing described above and also losing some of the pressure on the plates when the clutch is released. And that can result in both clutch slippage and bearing wear. If you play with screw and cable length you can get it close to right but not quite right. But what is usually not quite right is that the bearing is partially loaded, the pressure plates are not at full gripping force, or you are not getting the full amount of travel and disengagement when you pull the clutch lever in. To get the pieces all back to a fresh start and have the full range of travel for adjustments and for operation, you have to do the adjustments in the manner and sequence in the manual. The final adjustment, adjusting the cable length, is pretty subjective and often has to be fine tuned during or after your first ride with everything well warmed up. That is the adjustment where you lengthen the cable to it's full length, seat the clutch pack with two or three pulls, and then shorten the cable a little. The adjustment is that you should only be able to pull the cable end away from where it enters the clutch perch until there is a gpa of 1/16 of an inch. I found that what worked for me was that when I gripped the cable sheath at the perch with my thumb and fingers as hard as I could and pulled hard, I could just get a gap of 1/16" or about the thickness of a dime. Later, with it all warmed up, that gap would be a little too wide and I adjusted it again, adding maybe 1/4 or 1/2 turn at the adjuster. The clutch lever did not have a real feeling of any "do nothing" movement or free play when it was all working right. It felt kind of lightly loaded at the full out position and everything worked right. Jack | ||
| Bluzm2 |
What Jack said above. Loosen the cable first, then adjust the ramp. You will have FAR better results. Brad | ||
| Egille |
Well, I went to adjust the clutch cable, and found that it was pretty well stuck, I'm buying a new one tomorrow, and then I'll finish adjusting everything. Gotta love the nickel and dime effect... | ||
| Davidoforlando |
What problem does over filling the tranny create? I just replaced the tranny oil and now you've got me scarred??? | ||
| Blake |
Too much tranny fluid will cause the clutch to never fully disengage and will make shifting very difficult. |
