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Bobr
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 09:59 pm: | 
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Anyone else ever have this problem? Mine's intermittent of course. I have a 2003 xb9sl. It's stock except for a drummer exhaust. In heavy rain there is a dramatic drop in power and the bike runs very rough. It's happened twice with many miles and service intervals in between. The engine light does not come on and doesn't indicate a trouble code. I thought it might be an electrical connection getting wet (spark plug/wire/coil), but after talking to my dealer's service dept. and doing a little research here I'm inclined to think it's water getting into the fuel through the ram air and past the air intake. Thoughts, diagnoses, solutions?
Thanks,
Bob |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 06:28 am: |
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Out of curiosity have you checked your plugs after it does this?
I have a theory about the temp differences between front and rear cylinders and the fuel maps.
Not sure as yet but think that the greater the difference between front and rear the rougher the bike runs due to rich on the rear and lean on the front. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 07:24 am: |
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05 9sx and have ridden it through a few frog chokers, and it ran perfectly the whole time. And with no snorkel as well. I ran a forcewinder on the M2, and even as exposed as that thing was, it had to be *really* raining before you noticed a difference, and even that was a fairly minor effect.
My M2 did have a loose connection at "the other end" of the spark plug wires. I don't remember where exactly right now, but eventually I reached up there and found a connection loose, to the coil or where they T off or wherever... that showed up as rough running when wet until I snapped it back on. |
Bobr
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 03:37 pm: |
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Bombardier,
Just had a 25k maintenance not long ago, so the plugs are new. To tell the truth I've been reluctant to pull the air box off and check the plugs as it looks like a bit of a pain, but I'll probably end up doing it. It does seem to me that if it were a fuel mapping problem I would experience it more often.
Reepicheep,
A loose connection or cracked wire could be the problem. I did run it in the rain after the most recent episode with no problem, but the rain was moderate. Maybe the next chance I get to run it in a real soaker I'll have someone follow me to see if it happens again. Sounds like fun, eh?
Thanks for the comments. I guess I'm in for some wrenching. BTW I've heard this can be a problem on Suzuki SVs as well.
Cheers,
Bob |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 12:02 pm: |
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Check your plug wires when you get the airbox base off. Many bikes have had the front wire rub part way through where it lays on the idle adjuster cable. When they get wet it allows the spark to conduct to the cable. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 05:02 pm: |
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If you would please describe in painful detail what the symptoms are,we might have a better idea of how to help. When does the problem occur, bike hot, cold, will it start later and run fine, give us more detail than you think we can stand.  |
Bobr
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 10:08 pm: |
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Hello Blake,
The problem has only happened twice, on both occasions it was during an extremely heavy rain in FL, most recently on the way back from the races earlier this month in Daytona. In both instances the problem fixed itself, but it took considerably longer the 2nd time around. In neither instance did the engine light come on, nor did it subsequently signal a trouble code. On the second occasion I know I was getting low on fuel, but the low fuel indicator had not come on when the bike began to run rough. On that instance the bike began to surge as if suddenly regaining power and then losing power again (a lot of surge-much more than a low rpm lean condition surge)then finally regained power and continued home with no further problems. The engine had plenty of time to warm up (about an hour of running) before the problem started. I had stopped to suit up for rain and had shut the bike off. I made sure to give it about a minute of warm up before starting off again. The sudden power loss started not long after I had been riding in the downpour. I suspect water in the fuel:
1. The problem only has happened in very heavy rain. I rode in moderate rain for about 40 miles a few days later with no problem.
2. It seems an electrical problem should be showing up more often, at least in any rainy conditions.
3. I talked to another xb9 rider who had an almost identical problem who came to the same conclusion after talking to the techs at the shop where he works.
4. I suspect that the problem may be related to low fuel. I think when the fuel is low and the inside of the frame/fuel cell is hot water condenses inside the fuel cell and contaminates the fuel mix. As the contaminated fuel works its way through the system and the weather abates (as it did both times) the problem goes away. What do you think? |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 11:02 pm: |
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Another theory I have is that as the fuel gets lower the fuel being bypassed by the pressure regulator starts to aerate the fuel and causes the rough running. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 12:27 am: |
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Symptoms? I'm asking for a detailed description of what the bike/engine did, how it behaved, sounded, acted, ran, started, stopped, accelerated, cruised, and on and on ad infinitum. No power to cruise, but kicked in okay at WOT, or vice versa or...
We have little idea of what exactly your engine was doing, how it was behaving. We need that before taking off down any paths towards theoretical diagnosis. |
Bobr
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 03:16 pm: |
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Blake,
I'm not sure how much better I can describe it but here goes:
1.what the engine did;
I had ridden from the track in Daytona to Barberville, 20 miles or so. We were stuck in at the track due to an accident in the tunnel, so there was a fair amount of idling and I turned the engine off and back on at least once while waiting for things to clear. I made sure to follow proper start/warm-up procedures each time. The bike ran fine for the Dayotona to Barberville leg. I stopped at Barberville to suit up for rain. The bike started and ran fine until we hit heavy rain. There was a sudden power loss not long after I entered very heavy rain. It was as if I had lost power to one cylinder, although I'm not sure that was actually the case.
2.how it behaved, sounded, acted, ran;
It continued to sound and run very rough with markedly reduced power for several miles as the downpour continued. The sound was sort of a fast bup-bup-bup-bup instead of the usual growl. I had to give it more throttle to maintain speed. I kept going since it had happened once before and cleared and I did not think it was safe to stop due to heavy traffic,lack of a safe shoulder, the risk of getting rear ended in the poor visibility, and because no problem lights were showing on the dash. As the rain began to abate the surging described above started, as if the bike had suddenly began running normally. After severaly increasingly long episodes of normal running the engine continued to run fine. I stopped to gas up about 30 miles later north of Ocala.
3.how it accelerated, cruised:
Acceleration was weak, but it did accelerate. I certainly would not have wanted to attempt a pass and if I thought it would have been safer to stop I would have done so. The bike would cruise but required more throttle for a given speed than normal. Giving it more throttle did not cure the problem. The engine continued to run rough until the rain slacked off a bit. I'm not sure if I tried WOT, I probably did.
4. how it started, stopped;
No problems either starting or stopping. The engine did not completely stall, but I did continue to give it more throttle than normal. I think I came to a complete stop once and gave it enough throttle to keep the rpms from getting below 1000. By the time I had to stop for traffic the engine had already begun to show signs of recovery so I did not shut the engine down and kept going. Braking was normal. Shutting down and restarting was normal before and after the rough running. I did not try shutting the engine down and restarting while the bike was running rough. By the time I stopped for gas the engine had been running fine for about 30 miles. It started up fine and ran fine for the rest of the way home.
The bike has continued to start and run with no problems including during a 40 mile commute home in moderate rain. In fact I rode it to work today 40 miles up I-75, and expect to get back home tonight with no problems other than it's going to be a bit chilly.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
Thanks,
Bob |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 05:58 pm: |
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Sounds like a fouled plug causing one cylinder to cut out.
Have you pulled the spark plugs to check them? |
Bobr
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 06:35 pm: |
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Have not pulled the plugs yet. May have time this weekend. I confess I'm a bit daunted by some of the things I've read on other threads about damaged plug wires and cross-threaded plugs when others have tried to check out problems. Sounds like it's easy to cause more problems than you solve. Is there any connection between plug fouling and wet weather? Since the problem has now gone away would the plug still show evidence of fouling?
Thanks,
Bob |
Bad_karma
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 12:36 am: |
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Bob
Next time this happen carefully feel the temperature of the cylinders to determine which is not running. Change plugs I would also think about plug wires and make sure they seal tightly on the coil and plug.
Joe |
Bobr
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 10:19 am: |
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Bad Karma,
Plugs are relatively new as I had a 25k service but I will check them.
Blake and everyone else,
Thanks for the help. I'll proceed with the checks as recommended and keep you posted if I learn anything useful in case anyone else has a similar issue.
Bob |
Bluzm2
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 11:22 pm: |
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A little dielectric grease on the sparkplug boots wouldn't hurt either.
Had trouble with my Cyclone a while back, that took care of the problem.
Also put it on the coil end of the wires.... |
Bobr
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 04:11 pm: |
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Hello Brad and all,
The dielectric grease sounds like a good idea, but my dilemma about whether to do it myself or go tho the dealer has been resolved. The bike has now developed a tranny problem (I'll do a separate post). I'm taking it to the dealer. If it turns out to be something other than an adjustment and requires an engine tear-down (shudder) I'll see if I can solve the misfire mystery in the process of the tear-down/rebuild. |
Bobr
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 12:27 pm: |
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Problem solved, sort of. Got a new bike-see my post on the xb board. |
Bobr
| | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 02:01 pm: |
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I talked to GHD&B last weekend. They just finished the rebuild on my xb9's tranny(well, it's theirs now) . I asked about the plugs and they said the plugs were not fouled, so it looks like the water in the fuel theory holds water. We'll see how the new XT does in the wet. Sarah has never had any trouble with her '07 Ss. |
Deltablue
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 01:32 pm: |
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I need to ressurect this one!!
Noticed it for the first time yesterday. I was riding in pretty heavy rain on the interstate when I noticed it. If I went close to WOT I could hear the engine open up and struggle for a while and then the acceleration would kick in about 30 seconds later. Cruising seemed fine, and if I rolled the throttle just slightly I got normal acceleration, anything more than that and it bogged down. Once I passed out of the heavy rain the symptoms disappeared. I don't know what to make of it, I haven't had any other problems with the bike. Anyone with any ideas? Did I give enough of a description? |
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Bike runs rough in wet weather