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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » Archive through June 03, 2008 » Another misfire question « Previous Next »

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Jabooty
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

new here and hopefully not regreting buying buell.
just bought a used 2006 XB12S w/ 9k miles. front cyl not firing and found front spark plug wire chaffed thru against the wire harness. i then replaced the plugs and wires and now the misfire is intermittent but still happening most of the time. still the front cyl feels cold or warm compared to the rear. compression, gas, wires and plugs good. now i'm leading towards the coil. any ideas?
anyone know the resistance readings on the coil? how to do it?
so far, the bike has been problamatic. i also have a leaking rear shock!
i still have warranty until end of march but i'd like to try to fix it myself first before i bring it in.
thanks
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Bad_karma
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 11:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dennis
Are you sure that the front cylinder is getting fuel and fire?
Joe
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Jabooty
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

yes. it's getting fuel but the spark to the front cyl coil wire is cutting out. very erratic. sometimes, it's out all of the time.
i would cut my ride short and limp on home.
does not stall though.

any idea on how to use plug in trouble code tool? i plugged it in even though there is no check engine light on.
i plug it in, turn the key and the engine light flashes rapidly, stops, then flashes rapidly again.
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Mikej
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 09:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Do you have a service/repair manual for the bike? If not then check in the RAN (Rider's Assistance Network) on the site here to see if you have any nearby folks who could let you look at theirs.

If you still have a warranty then I'd suggest taking it in for the shock and mention you're having possible coil problems and ask if they can run a quick check on that just to confirm. I think there's a pretty good dealer in NJ, not sure how close to them you are though.
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Jabooty
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

sorry, but i don't have a users' manual nor i know anyone around me that has one.
i took out the bike again today and sure enough after 5 to 10 minutes, the front cyl starts to cut out. seems like once it really warms up, it starts to happen.
i scheduled an appointment at a nearby dealer for this problem and the leaking rear shock. hopefully it gets sorted out.
any advice on what to do or ask the service dept.?
how come there's no check engine light on?
i tried using the IRon Machine trouble code access tool but can't seem to figure out how to use it. i plugged it in and light flashes rapidly-stops-then falshes rapidly again.
what are the most common things to go bad on the 06 XB12s? coil, injectors, ecu, etc?

thanks for the input. if things don't get sorted out, i might deep 6 this bike.
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Wackyracer
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Try swapping your injectors front to back. If the rear starts misfiring you've found the problem (bad injector). One of mine went bad on my '03 XB9R @ 7k miles.
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Jabooty
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i'm picking up the bike tomorrow. the shop said they found a faulty cam sensor which does not make sense at all because only the front cyl misfires.
anyways, i'll see tomorrow when i ride it home. if it still persist, i'll bring it right back.
thanks for the input.
if it doesn't get sorted out, i'll try swapping the injectors before i replace the coil or the ecm.
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Bad_karma
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 12:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dennis
Hope they fix it. If not also look at the coil. Let us know how it turns out.
Joe
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Jabooty
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

picked up the bike today and i can honestly say, i am very happy! i put about 30 miles and she runs just fine.
the tech fault traced it to a faulty/worn cam sensor. it was replaced and the problem is gone.
i guess i was wrong with my triagnosis ;)
unfortunately, they could not verify the leak in the rear shock. i'll bring it back when it begins to leak profusely.
all in all, i'm happy with the outcome.
thanks for all the input. and thanks to Liberty Harley of Rahway, NJ
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Bad_karma
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 12:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Glad to hear it Dennis. Good job Liberty HD/Buell. Now it's time to checkout an upgraded shock.
Joe
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Jabooty
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

so, i brought the bike back for the leaking rear shock. fortunately it's covered in warranty. warranty over on 3/31/08.
sad to say that on the way to the dealer, the same misfire/cutting out symptom returned. the bike does not stall. it ran on 1 cyl. after about 10 minutes of riding. mostly hwy speeds. i made it to the dealer and asked them to look at it again. the bike has a new coil, plugs, wires, air filter, oil and a new cam position sensor from the original repair. what can it be this time? bad ecm?, bad injectors? leaking intake manifold?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Temperature sensor?
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Jabooty
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

how many temp sensors are there? si there one for each head?
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Wackyracer
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The temp sensor is down in the rear head. If you remove the airbox you should be able to access it by removing the ground strap. I would still try swapping injectors though. If the misfire moves to the other cylinder (which pipe is hot and which one's just warm) then you've found your problem without buying any more unnecessary parts. It's worth a try.
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Jabooty
Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

if the dealer can't verify and fix the problem then i'll try the injector swap.
was this the case with yours? what type of symptoms did yours develop?

and isn't the temp sensor only used for controlling the cooling fan?
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Al_lighton
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The head temp sensor is very key to the entire fuel and spark mapping scheme. WHen they go south, they can make the engine behave very strangely. When the obvious solutions don't work, it is the first thing I check. I've seen more than a few bikes with gremlins fixed by changing the head temp sensor.

Al
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Wackyracer
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The temp sensor talks to the ECU so it will know how to adjust the mixture accordingly. A cold motor requires a much richer mixture than a warm motor does. If the temperature sensor is sending the message that the motor is still cold when it's actually fully warmed up the mixture sent to the injectors will be overly rich and foul out the plugs. So a temp sensor may be the problem. But swapping injectors doesn't cost you a thing but your time and will at least rule that possibility out, or at the most you'll have found the culprit. My bike totally baffled my dealer and I was the one who suggested a bad injector but they didn't think that was it. After they spent way too much time replacing parts that didn't need replaced and I spent way too much on labor that was unnecessary, I took the bike home and swapped the injectors. Problem found. I replaced the bad injector & it's been running fantastic ever since. My bike only had 7K miles and has been meticulously cared for. On my bike the injectors tested okay (they had the right resistance). I even took them out and fired them into a bucket to check the spray pattern to see if I could notice any discernable difference between the two. All looked good. It wasn't until I finally swapped them (duh) that I found the problem. My bike would start fine running on both cylinders, but would then cut down to only one. When riding it the other cylinder would kick in (sometimes) when going through the rev range. There seemed to be no rhyme or reason to when or why. It was maddening to say the least. Here's a list of new parts that my bike didn't need: ECU, oxy sensor, temp sensor, air intake sensor, coil, plug wires. It's a little work to swap the injectors, but it's FREE!
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Jabooty
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i'm still awaiting word on the diagnosis.
but, it sounds like the symptom you described is the same that i'm having.
i did suggest the possible injector problem to the service manager but he seemed to be leaning towards the ecm.
i guess we'll see in a few days. hopefully it all gets sorted out before my warranty runs out on the 31st of march.
thanks so much for everyone's help and taking the time to listen. i really appreciate it.
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Blake
Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 07:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You are covered by the warranty from the date you report the problem, so no worries there. : )
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Jabooty
Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 09:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

just picked up the bike. sure enough, shortly after 10 minutes of riding, the same symptom returns. i noticed that it does it more consitently at cruising speeds in the hwy. as soon as i got home, i checked the front cyl temp compared to the rear. the front was slightly warm and the rear was hot. i let it sit for 15 minutes to cool down and restarted it and let it idle. the front cyl gets hot and begins to run normal.
so, my next triagnosis will be the injector swap. i'll update this as i go.
thanks for all the help.
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Jabooty
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 08:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ok. i removed the injectors to swap from front to back so i can see if the rear cyl cuts out. upon removal, i inspected the fuel rail and injectors. i found some type of clear sand like debris CLOGGING the front injector inlet. it was severly clogged! i cleaned it out with brake clean and blew it out with a little of compressed air. the inlet of the injectors have micro filters so it helped trap the debris. so i re-installed everything back without swapping and went for an hour ride. so far so good. no misfire/cutting out. i think i'm home free!
thanks for everyones help. and thanks wacky racer for the tech tip. i'm glad i found this site.

FYI the injectors have two different part #. they are not interchangeable because the spray jets have different angles. they fit and can be swapped front to back but only temporarily or for diagnosis purposes.
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Wackyracer
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm glad to hear that you've found the problem. I never realized that the injectors had different angles though. I'll be checking mine to make sure they're the right way! It seems to run fine but I'd like to be sure that it's right.
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Jabooty
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

logged in more miles today.so far so good. bike runs strong. now i can finally enjoy the bike.

yes, the injectors look identical but the spray jets are angled to spray directly into the intake track. the injectors are color coordinated as well as having different part numbers. i'm sure it won't cause any problems but it might not be optimum.
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Wackyracer
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well I think that the 2006 XB12S & 2003 XB9R must be different regarding the injectors. Mine aren't color coded and they both have the same part #'s. Even the Buell factory service manual makes no mention of the front & rear injectors being any different from each other. Anybody that might know more about this please feel free to chime in!
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Jabooty
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 05:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

yeah, you may be right.
i guess the the 12s and 9s are different.
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