| Author | Message | ||
     Buelleyeddevil |
I have shifter issues on my 05 xb12s and need to pull the clutch basket.Anyone have any pics on doing this?My bike got dumped on its primary side and is now stuck in gear with a shifter that doesn't do anything.Any help would be appreciated. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The factory service manual shows all the steps and has all the torques in detail. Basically, you pull the primary cover, then pull the clutch assembly, triple chain, and stator bell all as a unit. You need a locking bar (scrap aluminum will work well, a towel might work in an emergency) and some big freaking sockets. On re-assembly, the torque specs have been changed. That crank nut goes on at like 230 foot pounds or something, but don't take my word for it (I was corrected on it just last week), scare up the service bulletin. Lots of pictures spread throughout the knowledge vault. The XB and Tubers are similar, but the XB's don't have a cartridge tranny, and that shifter post seem different from what I recall on my tuber. | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
What is a cartridge tranny?I have not worked on a motorcycle tranny before so this is all new to me.Thanks for the response | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sure! If you have a cartridge tranny, you can remove "stuff" from the engine, and take out a few bolts, and the whole transmission assembly comes out of the motorcycle as a unit, and you can take it over to your bench and work on it there. Cartridge transmissions are fairly unusual on motorcycles. The old tube frame Buell motors had them, the new XB motors do not. A non cartridge transmissions are assembled into the engine cases. That means to work on your transmission, you have to split the cases of your motor, which more or less means you are looking at a complete tear down and reassembly. On one hand this is a ridiculously expensive way to repair a transmission. On the other hand, its cheaper to manufacturer, and if things are right, the transmission won't be worn out until the motor is worn out, meaning you have to rebuild both at the same time anyway. Your damage will probably NOT require splitting the cases to repair, the shifter pawl assembly and shifter shaft are on the outside of the cases where you can get to them, behind the clutch / triple chain / stator bell. | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
Define big freakin sockets.I am employed as a mechanic,unfortunately not motorcycle,and have a fairly large assortment of tools at my disposal.I understand the inner workings of the motor,but trannys seem to scare me a bit.Thanks again for your help.I do have a service manual on the way,but insight from someone else is always a plus. | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
Ok,Here is what I have found out.Primary sprocket nut is 1 1/8 regular thread.Clutch nut is 1 3/16 reverse thread.I have been told that my problem is in the shift mechanism,behind clutch basket.I also read that I can remove the clutch adjuster and access the nut without pulling the clutch apart.Doing it this way would require no special tools.Does this sound correct?Thanks | ||
| Blake |
Yes.  | ||
| Blake |
Except you will need a means to lock the sprockets from turning when you loosen and tighten the nuts. H-D makes an aluminum bar of proper length to fit between the drive and clutch sprockets and lock them in place. You can rig up your own. See the old S1 online service manual here in the Knowledge Vault - Manuals... section. It shows what I am trying to describe. | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
Can I use an air impact to remove the nuts? | ||
| Jackbequick |
Using an air impact wrench runs the risk of dislodging or weakening the bond on the glue on the magnets that are glued to the inside of the alternator rotor. If a magnet comes off when the engine is running the cost of repairs can get real expensive real fast. The locking bar needs to be 4-1/8" long and can be a piece of 1" to 1-1/2" wide flat bar with the ends slightly rounded. Steel or aluminum will work. What you want to do is to remove the two nuts and remove the rotor, primary chain, and clutch as an assembly. They will just slide of their shafts. Disassembling the clutch (as opposed to removing it) is a little more complicated, requires a special tool, and is not normally necessary for transmission work. Study the details of the process as are described in the KV and the service manual. Don't fart of stuff about cleaing off the old LocTite, degreasing the threads, and getting the torque specs right. Jack | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
Thanks Jack.My bike has been down way too long and we still have good riding weather here.I will post tomorrow how everything goes. | ||
| Blake |
What Jack says is valid. But I'm lazy, so I would use the impact wrench if I had it. I've done this and seen it done a number of times. You can wrap a rag around the rotor and hold it to help mitigate the shock loading the magnets see. The risk with using a hand wrench and breaker-bar is the loading you can impart to the roller bearings. The air-gun wrench applies pure torsion, no loading of the bearings other than from the kick load produced via the locking bar if you use one. | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
SUCCESS! I made the tool from a piece of bar stock and it came right apart.The shift pawls were on the outside of the shift drum.I straightened the mess out and it went right to neutral.Way easier than I would have thought.Now all I have to do is torque it all down with some red locktite and I am good to go.Thanks for all your help guys.It is nice to be part of the Buell brotherhood.Hope to post some bike pics tomorrow. | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
Almost forgot.Did not need the impact.Just my 230 lb butt and a 1/2 breaker bar. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Great news! Congrats! | ||
| Bad_karma |
Donald Glad to hear that all is well. Did you by chance get any pictures of the XB primary with the drive out? Joe | ||
| Djkaplan |
"But I'm lazy, so I would use the impact wrench if I had it." How in the world do you torque the rotor and clutch nuts down without a lock-bar? On my rotor, it has the warning "NO IMPACTS" stamped right on it. I was always under the impression that an impact gun could potentially get the pressed together crank halves out of phase with each other. I'll heed the warning from the factory (just to play it safe) and use the method specified in the service manual to get the nuts off. | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
What pics would you like to see.It is not all back together yet but will be tonite.Had to get a bigger torque wrench.Let me know. | ||
| Jackbequick |
The do it yourself locking bar is just about a no brainer, isn't it? I suppose I owe some apology to those that make locking bars for a living. Here is another good way to cheat if you don't have a big enough torque wrench: http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalcula tor.php If you double the length of a torque wrench, it doubles the torque applied to the fastener. So if your wrench is set to 130 foot pounds and is 18 inches between the center of the handle and the square drive, making a longer handle and applying pressure at the 36" point will give you double that or 260 foot pounds. You can play with the calculator at the link above to get the torque value you want or determine what you'll get for a given amount of extension. When I first tried that it seemed too easy to be true but a couple of university educated physics experts I used to drink beer with regularly at the time assured me that it will work with either a clicker or beam scale type wrenches. Jack | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
I used a craftsman 250 ft/lb torque wrench set at 230 for the crank nut.Seemed like it got to 230 real quick.Couldn't finish the job because I didn't get the shifter seal.Guess theres always tomorrow.... | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
Also discovered this little tidbit.If you take the nut out of the center of the clutch basket,you can pull the center out as a unit,leaving the carrier.What this means is you do not have to pull the stator off to get the primary chain off. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Really! Thats new... (and cool!) Can you post pictures of that? Or is it already back togther? | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
I did not take a pic of it.When you pull the clutch basket out the hole in the ring gear is bigger than the tranny input shaft.Push it toward the stator and take the chain off.Worked for me. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I tried that but there wasn't enough slack and side play in the primary chain to let that happen. Maybe next time there will be. "If you double the length of a torque wrench, it doubles the torque applied to the fastener. So if your wrench is set to 130 foot pounds and is 18 inches between the center of the handle and the square drive, making a longer handle and applying pressure at the 36" point will give you double that or 260 foot pounds." Jack, I know the point you are making, but lengthening the handle of torque wrench won't change the torque applied when the "click" happens. Even on a beam type torque wrench, 100lbs of indicated torque will still be 100lbs of indicated torque no matter how long the handle is. Applied weight to breaker bar handle length is what you shoot for. My 175lb wet weight on the end of my 18" breaker bar gets me to the proper torque on the rotor nut.... 1.5ft x 175lbs = 262.5 ft*lbs | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thats what I did. Except I didn't have to stand so far out on the bar  (insert homer voice: ummmm... donuts!) | ||
| Jackbequick |
Hmmm, it must have been the beer... Those guys swore up and down that it would work as I said. I sort of thought it wouldn't but they convinced me. I also got a bigger torque wrench around that time and don't remember if I ever really tested the theory. The issue at hand at that time was VW axle nuts... Maybe the difference is that you have to extend the length in a straight line to the front of the square drive? To keep the clicker/ beam scale reading half the force applied? It all makes my head hurt a little... Jack | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
I will take some pics of it because I get to take it apart again to replace the shifter arm assembly.Will post later. | ||
| Buelleyeddevil |
sucess.it worked.new issue.If I roll my bike backwards the belt tries to come off.Anyone ever hear of this? |
