| Author | Message | ||
     Bull |
Hey Mickey, There is a really nice setup!! Could you snap a couple more pictures on the installation? How about the clearance to the oil-tank, roasting the leg and so on!? It sure looks good! (I'll email you off the board for a quote..) Regards/ Jonas | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Henrick, The Boss is a smaller diameter than the ST, I don't think the fit wouldn't be very good. Loki, Pics to come tonight. Sorry about that. I've got a new camara and had some software/computer problems pulling the pics off the camara. I'm going back to my old card reader. It got too late to hunt down the drivers.... Brad | ||
| Loki |
Bluz Not to worry....I couldn't have got them last night anyway. My cable was cut yesterday afternoon. Seems the jack*#@ that put cable into my neighbors place cut mine in at least two places. Left me without anything last night. They get to pay big time for the emergency service call to fix mine. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Loki, Finally got to the picture. If you need anything else, let me know. I left the tubing diameter off as I figured you would know it was 2.5", same as the header. See pic posted below. edited by blake on May 31, 2003 | ||
| Djkaplan |
Hey Bluzm2, That cam case looks pretty good. Who cut it for you? How much $$$? Is this something you can do with handtools? I like the way the dowel wasn't eliminated and the braided hose looks trick. Danny | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Danny, Thanks! I really like the way it turned out. I did the cut down myself. Quite easy to do really. I did the big cutting on a bandsaw but a hack or cutoff wheel would work also. When you get the cam cover off, just cut along the existing reinforcing webs on the back. No freehand or guessing, just follow the webs. Just cut close and finish with a file. It's pretty soft so the filing goes fast with a single cut bastard file (ughh hmm a, he said bastard...) The dowel pin end was also shaped with a file. I had the powder coating done by Classic Coating in Sheboygan WI. The hose is off the shelf Russell and Aeroquip fittings and hose. The damn hose is about $5 per foot!! Yikes! Brad BTW, There should be more examples of cutdown cam covers in the KV. Some pics show both sides. (Message edited by bluzm2 on May 29, 2003, %time) | ||
| Loki |
Bluz, thanks for the pic and info  | ||
| Al_lighton |
Hmm, the dimensions you gave on the Boss can are interesting. The can on my bike is custom made by Stainless Specialties per a sketch I sent them, but it isn't a Boss per se, it's just built like one by the same company. I THINK that mine might be 4" diameter, not 5". So the mount MAY not be usable for a true Boss, but may be just fine for an ST if true. OTOH, it MAY work just fine anyway, since a 1" difference in diameter is only 1/2" difference in radius. At the exhaust end of the pipe, there could easily be that much room for adjustment. I've seen V&H pipes mounted where the owner didn't removed the Z bracket and STILL got the damned thing to fit (although it looks real stupid angled way down like that). The clamp MAY have that much adjustment capability as well, and any angle may be not very noticeable with only a 1/2" difference in height. Stay tuned, I've got to get back to SD and make a couple measurements to be sure. FYI, I cut my cam cover down with it on the bike with a combination of ziz wheels, grinding bits, and broken hacksaw blades. Not sure I'd recommend that method, it's a PITA, but it came out pretty good. It's obviously not powdercoated. If I did it again, I'd leave the small section that engages the rear alignment dowel. Doesn't look quite as clean, but seems more prudent structurally. Al | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Al, What a tool I am! You got me thinking about the 5" diminsion. Didn't sound right. I rechecked the pipe and my notes. Oops, the 5" was a FAT FINGER!!!! It is really 4", NOT 5"!!! Sorry, Sorry sorry!!!! I'll see if I can get Blake to replace the picture for future reference. Blake, You out there???????? How can we do this? Brad | ||
| Blake |
Edit or Delete it? Click on the  icon on the right side of the title bar of the post to delete your post. Click on the  icon to edit it. Too easy eh?  We can currently delete or edit our own posts withing 48 hours of the original posting time. Editing may allow you to delete the image tag, but I don't think it will allow you to add another or change it. If you still need help after giving it a go let me know. | ||
| Loki |
Bluz, fat finger or was it a thumb? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Blake, I was able to edit but not change the pic  Here's the correct one. You can insert it into the other post if you can or leave it here. Sorry for the hastle.  | ||
| Blake |
Why didn' t ya delete the pic?  I deleted it for you and added a note. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Blake, Duhh, that would have been too easy!  I was trying to figure out a way to replace the pic in the original post. Actually, I tried to do that very thing late last night. My edit time had elapsed, I couldn't make the change. Thanks tons for all your efforts on the board Blake. It is tremendously appreciated by all. Brad | ||
| Pilk |
Agree, THANKS Blake. I would be happy to give ya'll a honest opinion of the D&D, if only someone would donate one to me. Pilk | ||
| Aesquire |
Thanks Blake. Like everything Buell, this thread gets complex. I was looking for opinions on pipes/mufflers, and we get tech solutions! coool! Is my front end supposed to leave the ground when I shift to 2nd?  I'm still sorting out the jetting, & trying to figure out if the high pitched sound is the Wileyco, or the gutted airbox letting me hear valves... but the sound's gone at speed.  | ||
| Djkaplan |
Thanks for the info Bluz. Gonna get the hacksaw and Dremel out when I get some time. Danny. | ||
| Al_lighton |
OK, here's some updated info. The Stainless Specialties pipe is 4"OD. The Supertrapp appears to be about 4.4" OD. Mounts should work with either I spoke with Donn about the mounts. I did the design for him so that he could sell an entire header system. But the project went into limbo when Don lost his Qwest job. So for now, we'd like to just recoup the prototype cost, and may revive the project later. We built one prototype (the one on my bike, no center web), then added the web and prototyped 5 more. I need one of those for my S3, Donn wants one, so there's three more available. As prototypes, they were built in small quantities and are therefore not very cheap as brackets go. Clamp straps: In order for the mounts to be of any use, they need clampco T-bolt straps with removeable T-bolts. In order to get a decent price, I need to buy 25 clamps, each mount uses two. These clamps would also be usable with the Supertrapp mounts that have failed with a small enlarging of the strap hole. I'll turn them on to build them based on response here. Supertrapp users, if you want any , get back to me. Pricing: Rear mount: In the qty 5, they are $57 each. They are way cheaper in large quantity, but we didn't want to build too many in case we needed to change something in the design. Clamps: In qty 25, $9.25 each. If you buy a mount, I'd suggest buying at least 3 in case one fails at some point. So, if you want one of these 3 brackets (a few indicated that you did, but based on this pricing, you may change your mind), or, if you have a supertrapp can and want a couple of the T-bolt straps, let me know. If there's interest in more, I could get more built. At qty 10, they're only $22 each. I'm not making a cent off these, just want to not eat the cost on more brackets than I need, and they're not doing anyone any good just sitting on a shelf. BTW, these aren't polished, but are stainless and will polish up nicely with about 1/2 hours works with a sander and buffing wheel.    | ||
| Blake |
Would you like a stress hacker's opinion? ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Al_lighton |
Blake, sure! I learn something every time you do your numbers, so I'd enjoy it! But when you look at it, realize that I had to make several major concessions to optimal structural design to ease fabrication, installation and aesthetics. So while I know it isn't as strong as it could be, I think it's as strong as it needs to be. Would've been a lot easier if I had even a clue what forces to design for there That center web would be far more effective if it came all the way up to the bolt height, but doing so would either make assembly obstructed or interfere with the primary case (see my earlier picture, then look at your bike). With no web, I was concerned with fatigue cracking at the bends at the bottom, where I had to remove a lot more material than I wanted to due clamp strap size and position resrictions. That's why I made the bend radius there so huge. The web I added just has to take out some of the bending that would occur there with vibration. The one on my bike now doesn't even have the web, and has held up OK with 7500 miles on it. Might crack tomorrow, may last forever, I dunno. Feels strong like bull, though. It's a funky area on the bike. The hanger bolts aren't aligned, the rear of the primary case intrudes into the area, the muffler doesn't come as far back as would be optimal (due to tire interference) so the location of the straps relative to the hang points is far less than optimal, and the hanger bolts are easily obstructed to make their installation/removal difficult. Add all that up, and it makes what seems like should be a trivial bracket not so. But yea, I'd love to hear your suggestions on how it could be made better. I'll roll those changes into the bracket for Donn if he ever continues with the header project. Thanks Blake! | ||
| Jim_witt |
Hey Al, Nice looking job. Out of curiosity, what'z the purpose of the slots? Cheers, -JW:>  | ||
| Al_lighton |
Jim, I didn't build 'em, just did the CAD models. Look here for slots. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/26366.html?1054078743 They need to be that big to get the clamp T-bolts thru the holes. Al edited by al_lighton on June 09, 2003 | ||
| Blake |
Actually, the only thing I'd offer is to add another web or move the one you have to behind the rear strap. That's where the load will be trying to go...  You knew I couldn't resist doing an FBD It's crude, makes some simplifying assumptions and only shows the left side, but you get the idea. The load wants to stay aft and will tend to tension up the rear of the rear strap, so a bulkhead/web there would be most effective in reducing the bending stresses (flexure) around the slots. Optimally, you'd want to put the rear web as close to the slots as possible. | ||
| Blake |
 Muffler Hanger with Web/Bulkhead The green shows about where the new web would be most effective. The load can go straight from the rear strap up the web and into the lugs instead of having to make it's way via flexure through the bottom of the bracket. And as you know, when you are fighting fatigue, flexure is enemy #1. Have it welded on the front side of the web next to the strap, and again, as close as possible to the strap. The extended bracket and additional strap in the front may not at first glance appear necessary, but it is a true stroke of genius in that it will stabilize the entire assembly and keep the rear strap from being subjected to a heel and toe type prying action, the same action that can cause the strap on the race header collector's hanger to crack and fail. Yep, it's a definite keeper. The only other area that might give some installations a problem is the bearing/wear at the lug holes. I always tighten the heck out of my hangers though, intending that they will act like friction joints. Yes, I use beefy hardened washers to span the rubber plug and engage solid metal. Seems to work great. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Al, Count me in for one. I'll take 4 t-bolts also. Two for the new mount, one for a spare and one for the stock ST bracket I have with a broken t-bolt strap. I'll talk to a few friends up here with Boss's and check on interest from them. Just let me know how much $$ to send and where! Brad | ||
| Loki |
Al, Count me in for a mount also, unless Brad takes 'em all. Toss in two straps also. Just let me know the where and hows. Loki | ||
| Al_lighton |
Wow. I'm over subscribed. OK, here's the deal. Donn and I each get one of the 5, and I'd given first dibs on one to Brad, Josh (need confirm on him being OK on the price), and S2Carl. But Jose and Loki both want one too, and Henrik also expressed interest. If I can find two more interested folks, I'll submit a shop order for 5 more at likely the same price (will need to confirm with the shop). If I can get interest in 7 more, I'll make a shop order for 10 more, and adjust the price so that everyone pays the same (about $35). I'll hold off a few days on ordering straps until I get a feel for whether I'm getting 0, 5, or 10 more brackets built or not. Like I said before, no profit for me, just trying to keep everyone happy. Blake, thanks for the analysis. I concur with your findings, and in fact, originally was going to do about what you said (though I was going to have the web be where I've got mine at the bottom, but where you've got yours at the top..angled, not vertical, and I understand now why your suggestion would be better). I didn't because of tool and strap installation access and ease of fab. My logic for being able to get away with not having the optimum structural path was based on the V&H bracket, which is similar but not strap based. Their common failure mode is shown at http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/7508.jpg . I think the web I put in fixes that by eliminating side to side sway and the associated fatigue. The forward/lower location doesn't have access issues, plus it was a little easier to make the web self-jigging in the bracket at the location I put it. I think the V&H failure mode is fatigue of the thin left bracket arm in the heat affected zone near the weld, followed immediately by failure on the wider but way too tight bend radius on the right arm. V&H couldn't make the left arm wider because of required bolt access to the front bolt. I hear ya on the heel-toe failure mode (shown at http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/8595.jpg). I completed a design for a new front shoe as well that addresses that cantilever fatigue problem, as well as the problem where the strap likes to ride off the thing, haven't prototyped that one yet but have gone thru the quoting activities. The project hit stall before getting those built. Heck if there's enough interest there, maybe I should get a handful of those built to. Everything about that Buell part other than the concept of using a strap instead of a fixed tab just sucks. Oh yea, I ALWAYS use the washers you mention. BIG fender washers that span the rubber. I still can't figure out why rubber back there is a good thing. If anyone else would be interested in one at $35 of $57, chime in now please so I know whether to do another order. Al | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Al, Ya done good! I have a very possible taker up here for a rear mount. I'll know later today. I would be interested in the front mount, I think MikeE (the interested party up here) might be interested in a front mount also. Got a couple of other folks up here with Boss's that I need to get a hold of. I'll keep you posted. Brad | ||
| S2carl |
Al, Count me in for a front mount too. Carl | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Al, MikeE will take a rear and a front (if available). Brad |
