| Author | Message | ||
     1324 |
Hey all, I bought this bike a few weeks ago and I noticed that there was an oily film on top of the transmission (under the starter, on the right side of the bike). I kept an eye on this but it never seemed to accumulate into anything serious, so I figured I'd take a look at it eventually. Well, yesterday I did my first trackday (had a blast!), and the oil 'seepage' got worse. I noticed that there appears to be a breather line coming out of the transmission on the top of the case there. Is this a likely culprit? Also, correct me if I'm wrong (and I still know very little about Buells/HD transmissions), but the case appears to be split with an RTV seal. I'm hoping there is no leaking here. Either way, I am going to look through the manual and pull off the belt covers and all to take a better look and check the level. While I'm in there, I'll change the tranny fluid, too. For the record, I am planning on re-routing the breather lines from the XB as soon as I get the chance. Any thoughts? Nick | ||
| Reepicheep |
Could be a rocker box gasket (far less common on the XB's), a starter gasket, or a base gasket. Hopefully not a base gasket... | ||
| 1324 |
So you think no as far as the breather is concerned? I hope it isn't the base gasket, but it's weird that it would leak so much out the top. I mean, the bottom of the engine/tranny is dry and leak free. I guess I just wouldn't have figured the top interior surface of trans case would be subjected to quite that much fluid. Maybe I'll take a picture tomorrow to illustrate the area of concern, too. | ||
| Bad_karma |
Breather tube blocked? Joe | ||
| 1324 |
I'm going to check the breather tube first. Is there a good way to check it's open without actually removing it and inspecting? | ||
| 1324 |
Update: I just checked the breather tube, and it appears to be unblocked so I'm going to rule that out. Also, I checked the fitting on the top of the transmission and it is tight, so I think I can safely rule the breather out, unfortunately. Question about the base gasket. Is it some sort of silicone/RTV type of stuff, because there is a large bead of said material along the seam that is more or less a loose string here...as in, it is no longer attached to the 'sandwiched' material between the cases. Is this typical or does it indicate a potential problem? At this point, I'm hoping/praying it is something like the starter gasket. After reviewing the manual, it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to replace this anyway, so I can change the transmission/primary fluid and check the primary chain for wear (since the bike is still new to me). I'm attaching two pictures which sort of highlight the area of leakage. Unfortunately, these don't show the leak very well, but they are better than nothing. It's hard to say for sure if the starter gasket is to blame, because while the wall/face the starter mounts to is all wet and grimey, I'm not sure if that is indicative of a leak or just that the sludge ran that way under cornering loads and/or when the bike was sitting on it's sidestand. Ideas?   To get a better idea, I'm going to check the fluid level and take the bike to the local car wash where I can rinse the area out and keep a close eye on the area. | ||
| Tank_bueller |
Lemme know what you find! I recently acquired a 25K mi bike with the same "gunk" buildup. I cleaned it out, but haven't put enough miles on her to find a leak. | ||
| 1324 |
As of last night, I took the bike to the car wash and used some degreaser/high pressure water to clean the area out. It is FINALLY clean and looks like new...for now. I took a couple mile ride yesterday (took it easy), and no leaks as of now. I'll continue to ride it and monitor it for leaks. At least now I'll be able to see where seepage is coming from (hopefully). Interestingly, I checked the fluid level, and it is FULL. Granted, I'm not sure what the the level was to start off, but maybe it was overfilled and the high RPM track riding and higher than normal lean angles caused the seepage? I dunno...but I was expecting to see a low fluid level. Time will tell, but I'll definitely keep the thread updated. | ||
| Reepicheep |
You can throw some dye in one of the fluid's. If it is a base gasket, you will be leaking engine oil into there. If it's a starter gasket, it will be primary fluid. My M2 had a slow drool back there (probably both base gasket and starter gasket) for most of it's life, no big deal. Wipe it up every 1000 miles or so and keep riding. I eventually replaced the starter gasket when I was in the primary for other purposes, it helped a little but not a lot. I am not sure about the XB's, but on the tubers you had to pull the exhaust header to get the starter out far enough to get a gasket on it. A moderate PITA. The silicone RTV goo is normal. No worries there. Actually, the pictures above look fairly normal in terms of mess... that spot always catches lots of various road goo, and I don't think a little weeping in that area is that unusual. | ||
| 1324 |
Oh ok, thanks for the info. To be honest, the oily mess doesn't stink like gear oil does, but that might also be because there isn't much of it. Either way, we'll see what happens now that it is clean. Like I said earlier though, the odd thing is, fluid levels were good for engine and tranny before and after the track flogging. I was told to expect the bike to drink some engine oil on the track, but I saw no appreciable decrease throughout the day. Just so I'm clear, please clarify what you are referring to as the base gasket. I interpretted/thought that would be the gasket between the two halves of the tranny/crank cases. Am I mistaken here? If so, how would a leaky base gasket leak engine oil out the top of the tranny? Wouldn't the leaky fluid be gear oil? I'm sure I'm just confusing myself with things I don't have experience with, so please inform me. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The base gasket is the gasket between the bottom of the cylinder and top of the cases. Leak at the back base gasket would show up on top of transmission. Another possible culprit is where the alternator wires exit the primary case which is also over the transmission. You say the oil doesn't stink like gear oil; what kind of oil are you running in the primary/transmission? Factory fill tranny lube would be closer to engine oil in smell. Several of us have had stators go bad after running Mobil-1 75W-90 gear oil so I'd strongly suggest you change to something else if that's what you're running. Mobil 1 engine oils are fine and haven't been accused of causing problems. Good luck. | ||
| 1324 |
Ah, ok, that makes more sense. I'm nearly positive it isn't the base gasket then, since even when the surfaces were oily, that interface was pretty clean. That should be easy to spot now that everything is clean,though. I noticed that hole for the alternator wires, so maybe that is the area. Is there just a grommet there? If so, I can see that leaking over time. Part of what is making this diagnosis so difficult is the fact that a little bit of oil goes a long way...sorta like blood...looks like a lot, but really isn't much. Also, the area is really tight and compact. The oily residue definitely didn't smell like gear oil, but when I checked the fluid level through the clutch inspection window, you can smell it then. No mistaking that oil for anything but heavy weight oil. According to the PO, he used Mobil-1...so I've been planning on switching to Royal Purple since I have had great experience with that in all of my cars. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thats good news then, if the base gasket looks dry, that's the expensive one. The other likely sources (starter gasket or stator grommit) are not big deals. Rocker box leaks can magically transport oil through space and time as well... but they are fairly infrequent on XB's. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I noticed that hole for the alternator wires, so maybe that is the area. Is there just a grommet there? If so, I can see that leaking over time. Yea, the wires are molded into a rubber grommet that squeezes into the hole in the inner side of the primary above the transmission. I can't remember if you can get to this from the primary side without removing the primary chain but the primary cover will definitely have to come off. You can try pulling it back into the primary case, cleaning it up, putting a good bead of RTV silicone around it and shoving it back through. If you have to pull the primary chain, I'd seriously consider replacing the stator while I was in there. The part is fairly cheap (~$40 IIRC?) and getting the primary chain off is 90% of the job. Based on what I saw in my S3, the problem with the Mobil-1 (and possibly most other gear oils) is that it appears to attack the plastic potting material that encapsulates the solder joints where the wire leads to the voltage regulator connect to the stator. The potting material flakes off, allowing the wires to shake around and break the solder joints. I switched to Formula+ after my stator replacement and I've been very happy with how it shifts. (Message edited by hughlysses on July 16, 2007) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think the stator is fairly pricey, at least the OEM part. | ||
| 1324 |
Well, good news (sorta): I took the bike out for an hour long ride last night and rode it moderately heavy. After the ride, I found some seepage coming around the starter...thank God it's not the base gasket! Looks like I know what I need to do. Will I need only four gaskets (primary, shift lever, clutch inspection cover, and starter)? Aside from changing the oil and checking the primary chain, anything else I should do while I'm in there? | ||
| Reepicheep |
On the tuber, I think you have to pull the header to get the starter far enough out to get the gasket in. Not sure if the XB is the same. If that's the case, you might want to get some exhaust header gaskets as well. Perhaps you could use something like yamabond and do it without completely removing the starter and the existing gasket. | ||
| 1324 |
According to my manual and my brief inspection, the header won't present any clearance issues. The only things in the way will be the breather hose and some wiring. I think it should be relatively minor once I get the primary cover off. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good news... let us know if it plays out that way, that would be another nice improvement on the XB motor. | ||
| 1324 |
Another reason why I love Buell....went to the HD/Buell dealer nearby for the gaskets (primary, clutch, shifter rod, starter, drain plug o-ring), and they had them all in stock for $28. If these parts were for my Suzuki, I'd have to wait 7 days and they'd cost at least twice that. Plus, according to the parts guy, the starter gasket on the 2003 models have been superceded with a new part. Old gasket was paper (or paper'ish material), the new one is rubber coated steel. Looks like Buell knew they had a problem. | ||
| Hoverjocki |
Hi. I had a leak on the right side too..... took it in to my HD dealer and it appeared to be the STATOR PLUG. They replaced it and hasn't leaked since...hope this helped a bit. Justin | ||
| 1324 |
I changed the starter gasket the other day and so far, so good. The alternator grommet doesn't appear to be leaking, so I left well enough alone. If I remembered to buy the grommet, I would have changed that as well. The old starter gasket was paper and it was shot. The new gasket looks and fits MUCH better. |
