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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » Archive through May 25, 2007 » Any suggestions? « Previous Next »

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Cyclonemick
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 09:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Recently my M2 will not run! It will run if cold for 30 or 40 seconds and will die and will not start up again unless It cool. Last season I changed Intake seals and after 3k miles its acting up again! I checked Battery, cables both are good. If it is Intake could the actuall intake itself go bad??? or is it more likely the seals? Any help would be appreciated I do not currently have the money to take it to the shop and it's killing me to let it sit when we are having all this beautiful weather.
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Saszta
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What prompted you to change the seals last time? Did you test the intake for air leaks? If so then test it again but if your bike doesn't run for more than 40 seconds I doubt it's just a leak at the intake seals. Sounds like a carburetion problem to me, like you're running too rich. But that's just a guess. Check you plugs, check the resistance at your coil, is your idle speed set too low, make sure both plugs are getting spark, how does it run for those 30 seconds? I mean, smooth or is it really rough? Any black smoke?
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Blake
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sounds to me like the engine is flooding.

An intake tract air leak is not likely to cause the bike to stop running as you describe. A twist of the throttle would counter such a condition and keep the egine running. An intake tract air leak would cause poor running at slow speeds, and cruising speeds and also engine pinging under wide open throttle at low engine speed scenarios, but the engine would still run once it was started.

If this is a new problem after the bike sat over the Winter, it's likely to be related to stale fuel or something in the intake or something related to the first cold startup of the year.

Let's begin with the basics.

0. I gotta say this, don't ask... Ensure that the bike has fuel and that the fuel petcock is turned either to the "on" or "reserve" position. The valve is in the "off" position when it's thumb-lever is pointing straight down.

1. Check and replace the spark plugs right after the bike stalls. If the plugs are wet, the bike is flooding out. An excessive odor of gasoline when the bike stalls would also indicate a flooding engine. If the plugs are wet, the float bowl needle valve may be failing to close. Remove the carburetor and clean out the float bowl, and use some good spray type carb cleaner to clean the float bowl needle valve and then the carburetion circuit jetting and fuel delivery tracts.

2. Open up the intake and see if the intake tract looks okay, no debris or blockages. I've heard that some little critters can chew right through an air filter and then find the airbox of a Buell a very cozy little nesting place.

3. A vaccum in the fuel tank might cause the symptom you describe. See if opening the fuel filler cap makes any difference.

4. One possible suspect could be a faulty rear cylinder head temperature sensor/circuit. See if unpluging (opening) that circuit makes any difference.

How does engaging or disengaging the choke affect the situation?

How does the bike respond to revving the engine via throttle blipping?

Does the bike backfire before it dies?

Does it start easily when cold?

Water in the fuel may be a possibility. Have you tried replacing the fuel with a new tankfull?


Please let us know what you find.


Here's hoping it's something simple and you are up and running, riding, leaning, smiling and living life largely again in no time. : )
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Sparky
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It might be something restricting fuel. Have you added a fuel filter? If so, it might be starting to clog allowing only a trickle of fuel into the carb.
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Cyclonemick
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have ridden the bike this year approx 1,500 miles. I did notice when I first started riding (this season) it it did have a cough but it went a way after it warmed up. I just figured it needed a good tune up and the timing checked. I just changed plugs last night and it did not make a difference and old plugs were not wet and looked a creamy color (good). Last season I changed the intake seals because it was running rough so I did the wd 40 test and the bike died right away. Running with the choke open or blipping does not make a difference it just sputters out and dies. On a cold start up it cranks right up but it dosen't run for very long. It does not backfire before dying or while it's running. I'm not familiar with the rear temp sensor but I will check out my manual to see if I can locate it. I will definatley clean out my carb this weekend and see what happens . Thanks for helping me out! I enjoy doing my own work but I still have alot to learn
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Cyclonemick
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

When checking for spark, Can I just pull the plug while attached in the wire and set it against the frame and look for a spark? I don't want to damage my electrical system by not properly grounding it.
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Saszta
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 03:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Checking the plugs: Remove both plugs, then attach one to the plug wire and touch the metal threads (or hex nut above the threads) against the engine while you crank the starter. Repeat for the other plug. Although this does not sound like your problem you can still give it a go.

You know what? Since it fires right up and then runs for a short while I'll bet the your carb bowls are not filling properly and there's just enough gas in them to start the bike and then when the gas gets used up after some cold idling then your engine cuts out.

This can mean then that your needle valves are plugged in some way.
Posible Causes:
- varnish gunk in valve(s)
- sticking needle valve
- sticking carb bowl floats
- incorrectly set float (not so likely since it was ok for some kms)

You can also have a clogged fuel filter (if you have one) or a petcock that may be malfunctioning. Not sure how your petcock works but there are two types of systems. One is vaccuum actuated and the other is free flowing. If you have a "prime" setting on your petcock then try running the bike with it set in that position, basically you want to give the carbs free flowing gas and not invlove any vaccuum systems.

If you don't have a fuel filter and can eliinate that possibility then try this: Start your bike let it die, then immediately shut off your fuel line (petcock). Remove the carbs without draining the bowls and then remove the bowls to see how much fuel you have in them. You may also be able to do this while the carbs are on the bike. You should still remove them in any case if you haven't in a while. When you open up the carbs check the movement of your floats and needle valves and thoroughly clean all parts. Clean the chamber that the valve sits in so that it moves freely. There should be some sort of spring system with the needle valve - make sure it's still got some spring life. I have some experience on mikuni carbs so I'm not the best for Keihin carb advice but I could help you with the basics.
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Marks3tbillet
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Do M2s have the temperature sensor on the cylinder head? I thought only the injected bikes had this.

I second the vote on checking the carb. for sticking needle valve/floats.

Mark
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Cyclonemick
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 09:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What's up Mark? How are you doing? After some research in the Kv and in my manual I also believe there is no temp sensor on the M2 but I am going to take my carb apart tommorow and give it a thourough cleaning. Thanks for the advice.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

2000 didn't, I know that much. I think the newer ones might have.
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Bluzm2
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 10:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The 2000 M2's didn't have the temp sensor if memory serves, they didn't go on until 2001.

Brad
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Cyclonemick
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 08:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I would like to thank everyone here who pointed me in the right direction. After a thourough dissasemly and cleaning, Saturday, my carb was root of all of my running problems. After I re-assembled the carb I then emptied my tank (which was 3/4 full and replaced with fresh gas. 200 trouble free miles later my bike is now running like it should. The people on this board and my shop manual are priceless when it comes to helping people out who are not made of money. Thanks again.
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Saszta
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Great news! Glad to hear you got it worked out.

Steve.
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Blake
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 12:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That's good news, thanks for reporting back on the resolution.

Good call on the rear cylinder head temp sensor coming into effect for the 2001 model year. : )
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