| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
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| Jim_Witt |
Henrik, I thought exhaust temperatures were around 1100 degrees (dunno for sure, just rings a bell). I find it hard to believe you can’t find a “good” welder in your area. Still think you should get it TIG or MIG welded. Go to a welding supply house and see what they recommend for a welding rod and flux for stainless in YOUR application. Flux is critical! You must break down the chromium oxide, so get the correct flux (meaning for stainless steel – probably fluoride/chloride/borates can’t remember). Since you’re hard headed and want to braze it, joint prep is extremely important (not the kind of joint that Sean uses). Are you going to put the bung into a hole you cut in the header (called a saddle in) OR are you going to trim the bung to fit the curvature of the header (called a saddle on). In either case, the more PRECISE the fit-up, the easier it will be to braze. Otherwise you’ll fight every bit of it and will end up with a fucking mess. All components must be thoroughly cleaned. You should use a SS wire brush on SS material. If you want to get picky, any file, sanding disk and so forth that is used on carbon steel, shouldn’t be used on stainless steel. The carbon steel particles will get imbedded in the SS and it will start rusting. Even if you throw sparks from a carbon steel grinding process on SS process, will cause rusting on the SS. You must support the bung after you get everything prepped and fitted. If you use the saddle in method and start heating everything up, the bung will fall into the header (hole in header expands first since the header is thinner material). If you use the saddle on method the bung will move when you start feeding the rod to make your fillet weld. Don’t put any more or less flux on the parts than necessary. Use a slight feathered (called a reducing flame) on the inner cone of the flame (meaning NOT a sharp point or cone). The bung (being thicker) will take longer to get up to brazing temperature since it’s thicker. So when you move your torch up (on bung) and down (on header) you simply keep it on the bung a little longer. When starting the brazing process, try and heat everything evenly. In other words, don’t just stay in one spot, moving your torch up and down and then start trying to braze when you reach the proper temperature. Unless the supply house specifies something different, I would assume you’d be using 45% silver brazing rod and fluoride/chloride/borate flux. Once everything is setup, and you’re in a ventilated room, with the proper safety gear and you’ve fired up the torch, here’s what will happen. The flux will dry out as the water in it boils off around 212. The flux will turn sort of white at 600 degrees and you’ll start to see little bubbles in the flux. Finally it will turn to a “clear liquid” at 1100 degrees. This is JUST SHORT of the brazing temperature. The “clear appearance of the flux” is letting you know to start adding filler rod. The 45% silver rod melts at 1120 degrees and starts flowing at 1140. You have a REAL short brazing window here dude and can blow everything if you get it to HOT! If you do, you burn the flux up, you’ll have to clean everything up and start the whole process over. If everything goes well and you've done everything right, it should take about 1 minute to make the entire fillet weld around the bung (after it reaches the brazing temperature). -JW:>  | ||
| Road_Thing |
Hey, what's all that white sh*t?? That doesn't happen down here! ...annoint away, hick-boy, I can take it!! r-t (running errands this weekend on the Road Pig in a tee-shirt, 'cause it's 85 in Houston) | ||
| Court |
JW: GREAT summary....we gotta move that to a knowledge vault area under Tools, Tricks and how to braze. THANKS ! | ||
| Jim_Witt |
 80 degrees here in Phoenix today! -JW:> | ||
| Littledog1 |
72* in SF bay Area right now....... | ||
| Bomber |
anyone got a source for big metric dies . . . .big as in 25mm and so on? thanks | ||
| Henrik |
Jim: Hard headed ... me ???? Naaahh. The horizontal weld in that middle picture is from the factory ...  Of course it ought to be possible to find a decent welder, but since I don't know anyone who can recommend someone, I'm stuck with trial and error, and it's been mostly error Thanks for the brazing advice. I'll probably order stuff from MSC, and their tech people seem to know their stuff, so I should be good with their recommendations. I'll keep you posted on my progress. Henrik (mid 30's, windy and drizzly in NYC) | ||
| Court |
>>>Hard headed ... me ???? Naaahh. And Grouchy! Let me know if you need it welded. Someone on the NYCMB posted the name of a "good" welder. Or failing, that, with the time I have on my hands I can drive it to Kansas. Wanna come down here to Astor and push folks around on the platform? I might be able to get you in the movies...  | ||
| Henrik |
I'm having plenty of pushing to do up here, but let talk about that welder. Henrik | ||
| Mikej |
Bomber, Here's one ebay auction with larger mm dies. You might try contacting the seller directly. Those metric threads need the pitch number as well as the diameter. I tried looking at the McMasterCarr site but got lost. I can run over to Northern tomorrow afternoon and check there if you don't have one located yet. | ||
| Bomber |
Thaks Mike . . .neither Northern nor McMaster Carr carry em that large (but will special order) . . . .the links Josh gave have zactly what I'm looking for! | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Well, all that talk about welders a while back, and the very cool wheel balancer that JohnC made (see http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/4062/20411.html?1049953989 ), I decided I needed to be able to join metal so I can build cool projects like that. So I had to buy a decent home/hobby welder. I've wanted a welder for a long time, if nothing else just to play with sparking metal I did a little bit of gas and stick welding in college, but never MIG. I bought the following setup: 1 Millermatic 135 w/FREE Cart 565.00 1 Hobart Hood XL-Black $160.00 1 Cotton Jacket with Leather Sleeves $33.25 1 Tillman Premium Welding Glove $15.50 1 Hobart Handler 135 MIG Welder (115 Volt): M-10/15 MIG Convenience Kit $25.95 1 MIG Pliers $15.55 1 Shielding Gas Cylinder - 40 Cubic Foot Options: FULL ARGON/CO2 (+$25.00) $114.00 1 Helmet Storage Bag $9.95 1 Chipping Hammer - Straight Head, Spring Handle $6.50 1 Scratch Brush - Super Scraper Stainless $4.50 1 Hobart HB28 MIG Wire - 2# Spool Diameter: .030 $8.50 Subtotal: $958.70 Shipping: 0.00 Tax: 0.00 Total: $958.70 And two books: "Welder's Handbook: A Complete Guide to Mig, Tig, Arc & Oxyacetylene Welding" Richard Finch; Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding "Fourteenth Edition", Hardcover, 876 pages Lincoln Electric So I have a bunch of reading and practicing on scrap to do ahead of me. Jim W or anyone else, see anything missing in that setup? Something that I just NEED to have (besides an air grinder and a fire extinguisher)? A book beyond those that are must haves? A hint that has taken you far? I'm all ears (eyes?). Thanks, Al | ||
| Al_Lighton |
For anyone else looking into such a thing, this chart was interesting (though biased). It, plus one of the comments that Jim Whitt made a while back, steered me to the Millermatic. http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/comparisons/millermatic_135.html I was close to getting a 175A (230VAC Input) unit, but I liked the portability aspect of the 115VAC unit. And if I outgrow it, I'll just buy a bigger one! Al | ||
| Jim_Witt |
Al, The Millermatic 135 is an excellent little short circuiting welding machine for your purposes (although I haven’t used one in years). The only thing you forgot would be a pair of safety glasses, a few extra .030 contact tips, a few nozzles (that go over the contact tip) and some welding flash eye drops They also sell an anti-splatter spray for MIG welding that works real good at keeping the splatter off the contact tip and nozzle, making them last longer. I’ll tell you what, if you ever get a –REAL- welding flash (or someone around you does) and have some welding flash eye drops on hand, you’ll kiss my ass in public when you see me for telling to have some in your medicine cabinet. You will absolutely NOT BE ABLE TO SEE if you get a real welding flash and you can’t relate to the PAIN unless you’ve experienced it. The welding flash eye drops will deadin your eye completely. So much so, that you could stick a knife in your eye and you wouldn't feel it. Safety glasses are extremely important puppies and should always be worn under your welding hood! BTW, they make some really nice looking safety glasses nowadays too. It only takes ONE instance for a piece of slag to pop off your work piece, a spark or whatever to permanently eliminate your eye site. I’ve always worn safety glasses (it’s required at work). I’ve lost count on how many times something still got in my eye, even with them on! I’ve had 3 surgeries to remove metal particles stuck in my eye ball (where they actually drill out the rusted metal particle) … no fun. Oh, BTW don’t forget that Argon is an oxygen starver and heavier than air (also great for killing gophers). Also, each and every time before you pull the trigger, check to see if the wire liner is kinked or maybe you’ve pulled it to tight and coiled it. The rollers that feed/push the wire aren’t strong enough to push the wire around the coil or short radius you’ve created and you’ll have a fucking mess on your hands at the rollers. MIG welding is the easiest process to learn, once you get it setup right (voltage/inductance/correct gas/wire speed = less or no splatter and reduced heat affected zone). Keep in mind while welding that liquid flows down hill. If you need some welding tips to smooth out the beads (not setting up your machine) once you’ve practiced a little, just let me know. Down the road, once you get to where you think you’re pretty good, get a couple pieces of 6” (or larger) carbon steel pipe sch. 40 from a scrap steel yard, then put a 3/32 gap in between them and try welding them together from top to bottom (without rolling the pipe). -JW:> | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Ya done good Al! Very simular to my setup actually. A couple of other must have items you will need. A soap stone holder and refills, I have the flat and round type. A couple of welding vice grips. Both the large "C" clamp type and the traditional welders vice grip. I picked up a couple of cheapie sets (1 each in the set plus a sheet metal bender type) at a local discount tool place called Northern Tool. Kind of like a Harbour Freight. Here's a link.. Crap, cant get the link to work.. Go here and do a search on welding clamp http://www.northerntool.com A couple of welding magnets like these :http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1938 Now go melt some metal!!!! Brad | ||
| Andrewb |
I'm all ears (eyes?). Thanks, Al This'll sound weird, but I'd add respirator masks to that. http://www.labsafety.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id=29634&cat_prefix=3WA Look at the 5th, 6th and 7th items on that page. Any professional welders want to add to that? | ||
| Henrik |
Please take Jim's suggestions for proper eye protection (PEP ) to heart. When I was working ER some of the patients in most pain were the ones with injuries from welding; either the light or actual splatter in the eyes. Interesting tid-bit: we used a dye to spot the damage to the cornea. With welding flash you can see the *many* spots where the light has made the cornea blister and pop. It completely speckles the cornea - and I guess explains the excruciating pain Just keep in mind, once you put those drops in your eyes, you will not feel if anything else hits or injures your eyes. So be careful until the drops wear off. Henrik | ||
| Jim_Witt |
Dunno about the respirator scenario for casual once-in-a-while home welding but there’s no doubt that long term exposure to welding fumes are harmful as are the welding rays to the skin or eyes and even electrical shock that can kill (under the right conditions). You can look up MSDS sheets for specific coatings on electrodes or wire and see the results for yourself. BTW, I might add here Al to MAKE SURE you wear a long sleeve shirt and button the top button on your shirt while welding. It's quite possible and probable you'll end up getting one of the worst sun-burns you've ever had on your throat. I should add, be extremely careful if you have kids around while welding, especially babies. Looking directly at the arc isn’t the only way you can fry your eyes. Reflected arc rays are just as dangerous. Last story promise. I was welding inside a 120” diameter pipe (10 hour shift) on a dam once and got the worst welding flash of my life. The arc rays were reflecting off the inside wall of the pipe, then entering through the open-backside of my welding hood to the front-inside of the hood to my eyes … for 10 hours, not good. When you get flashed, it’s not immediately apparent. Instead it’s hours later that you realize you’ve cooked your eye (very much like a typical sun burn). The worst part was leaving the job for my 2-hour desolate drive (way out in the desert) home. After about a half-hour into the drive I couldn’t see a freaking thing. Your eyes are tremendously light sensitive because of the flash and automatically close when exposed to any light source, let alone daylight. Since your eye is blistered, every time the eye lid closes, it rubs the blisters and it’s extremely painful. I put this on the same pain level as being severely burned. Where they put you in a tub and scrub off the skin with a brush. Anyway, in those days we didn’t have cell phones and getting home was an interesting experience. This is what taught me to keep a bottle of welding flash in my lunch box. -JW:> | ||
| Al_Lighton |
I bought a Hobart autodarkening helmet with the welder. I've never used one before, a friend told me it's great. Can you damage your eyes with weld flash using one? Back in college when I was doing a little bit of stick welding, I don't think the auto-darkening helmets even existed yet, not sure. In any case, we didn't have them. At the time, I thought it was very difficult to get the hang of lining up to start the weld and bringing it closer and flipping them mask down at just the right moment. I was either late on flipping it down, or alternately, flipped it down early and then started the weld poorly. And will SPF45 sunscreen make a difference on sunburn on my neck? What is the potential for electric shock, and what things must be done to avoid it? I'm a wimp when it comes to electrical shocks, I HATE getting shocked. Makes me stupid for 15 minutes (some would argue MUCH MUCH longer ). I figure I'll always have the gloves on when welding, can I get a shock thru them? Seems unlikely, unless they were wet. Al | ||
| Jim_Witt |
I bought a Hobart autodarkening helmet with the welder. I've never used one before, a friend told me it's great. Can you damage your eyes with weld flash using one? Not likely. The autodarkening hoods have been around for quite a while, maybe 10 years or so, affordability was an issue. They use to be about $400 to $500.00. You won’t have the coordination problem MIG welding as you did in stick welding. It’s a piece of cake. Just button the top button on your shirt and you won’t have a problem. I’m not sure if SPF protects you from the infrared rays but I’ll assume it does for ultraviolet. You won’t have a problem getting shocked with your MIG machine, unless you put the gun in your mouth, ground clamp on your scrotum and pull the trigger. I've been shocked a butt load of times over the years. It all depends on the welding conditions and environment, damp, wet, sweat etc. I’ve been in a bucket wide ditch, shored and 15' deep, in the Arizona desert, 125+ degrees, welding a gas line and still shocked. When you have a t-shirt on, a 100% cotton thick welding shirt and welding leathers on, in a tight space, in that kind of heat you sweat like a dog. Put your wet forearm, elbow, knee or neck on the pipe and strike the arc and sometimes it wakes you up. BTW, since I’m on this safety kick, from direct experience, OSHA etc., … it’s wise to wear a 100% “heavy” cotton long sleeve shirt while welding. If it catches fire (which has happened to me numerous times over the years) it won’t melt and stick to your skin. Don’t wear tennis shoes, laced shoes, or tuck your pants in your boots while welding. If a HOT dingle berry falls into the laces, burns through in a heartbeat, you won’t have time to un-lace the puppy and get it off. The reason welders wear a welding cap (and put the brim over one ear) is to keep the “sparks” out of their ear canal. If you get one of those little puppies in your ear you’ll understand, especially when it comes out the other side. -JW:> | ||
| Andrewb |
Other than the 'sunburn', I got what an oldtimer said was metal fever while welding up my old F-100. That was really weird, being crystal clear and crazy mad as a hornet at the same time. So I started using the respirator masks when doing any welding more than a few minutes. Of course, YMMV Andrew | ||
| S2pengy |
All the welders where I work wear these strange side button leather/seude shirts... They protect and holdup well | ||
| Aesquire |
Take these warning seriously. It's not fun having chunks of skin removed to check on carcinomas. Guess how I know.  | ||
| Jim_Witt |
There’s also something called “Teflon fever” or “polymer fume fever”. You get it from breathing even the smallest amount of fumes while welding certain types of plastics (so to speak). I’m talking like “seriously” sick for 24 hours with “ultimate extreme” like flu symptoms. My nervous system was so fucked up I vibrating. You can also get it by leaving a Teflon coated pan on the stove too long. -JW:> | ||
| Aesquire |
The wrong plastic, a hot arc, a bad day. Cotton, leather rule. Polyester clothes stick to you, holding the white hot slag in a tendril-ly embrace, (running a lathe with my back to the welder, ow ow...) This thread has become a wee bit scary! Common sense, and a little practice, you'll be fine. Look at a hand welded U.S. made bicycle to see what is possible. The welder at Lightnin I worked with was a master, pretty fillets in stainless & Ti. | ||
| Andrewb |
First, Hail and well met Aesquire. (nudge, nudge , wink from a fellow Scadian) Second, It shouldn't be scary. Just the trading of knowledge and transfer of information amomgst those interested. Knowledge is power! | ||
| 99x1 |
This may be common knowledge, but was new to me: Had a squeak from what I thought was a bearing or pulley when I turned the rear wheel - Harley guy asked me if I'd rode in sand recently - after ice storm couple of weeks ago, I had rode through lots of fine road sand used on the ice. Told me to clean the belt with dish soap and warm water - squeak disappeared. ( See article at Belt Noise ). Was amazingly loud for just sand.... John | ||
| Jim_witt |
Peter, Went to a welding show (here in town) yesterday. Saw and played with quite a few interesteing and absurd things. Also ran across and tried out a Miller Dynasty 200 DX (about 45 .lbs). REALLY liked it a bunch. Welded some 1/4 aluminum with the puppy too ... sweet. When you're ready to buy, you might look into this machine too. Cheers, -JW:>  | ||
| Jim_witt |
Pete, Forgot to mention I also fired up on a really cool little 19 pound AC/DC machine called the P-Wee 200 GTS from Thermal Arc (made in Italy I think). It's about the same size as this little Miller I bought (note the 9" torpedo level next to it). I know they make a quality machine but the company I use to work for simply doesn't buy them. They also have a 3 year warranty! They were selling them at the trade show for $1,750 complete (torch, guage, remote torch control, foot control, ground etc.) everything but a bottle. Almost bought one of the puppies because of the price and size, probably kick myself in the butt for not doing so. A real smoken deal for light duty stick, tig (including AC/DC high freq.) welding around the home shop in my opinion. I welded on some scrap aluminum in one of the booths and had absolutly no problems. Keep in mind, the more expensive TIG machines ($3,000 and up) offer finer adjustments and tuning of the arc like the Miller I mentioned above but this is indeed a slick little machine. Another item that caught my eye with the P-Wee is it will weld Lincoln 5P (a welding rod). Like I said in another posting a few weeks back, a lot of the side jobs I do require 5P. So, it's an all around "light duty" machine for my purposes. Damn, I knew I should of bought it. -JW:>0 (Message edited by jim_witt on May 10, 2003) |
