G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » Archive through May 25, 2007 » New 2006 XB12Ss runs poorly « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I bought a 2006 XB12Ss back in October. It had 23 miles on it, I guess from the setup a test ride or something.

As a bit of background, I've been riding for a few years. I started on a new Ninja 250, then I rode a KLX650 for a long time (dual-sport), then I bought the Buell. So this is the 3rd bike I've actually owned, although I've ridden a few others as well.

I ride back and forth from Silverdale, WA to Bremerton, WA and take the ferry across the sound to Seattle, and on the Seattle side, I have about a two-mile ride from the dock to work.

On the way home from the dealer on the day I bought it (about a 60 mile trip), I noticed that the bike was a little surgy, but I didn't think anything of it because I figured it was A) normal or B) going to go away once it's broken in or C) old gas in the tank or D) whatever else.

As time went on, I noticed some things that I didn't think were normal:

1. very jerky in 1st gear under 3500 rpm
2. somewhat jerky in other gears under 3500 rpm
3. minor pops and backfires eventually leading into bigger pops and backfires
4. especially when cold, it wants to die
5. the idle jumps around when cold (from below 500 rpm to above 1000 rpm until it warms up)
6. it idles at just below 1000 (don't know if this is normal, I thought the book said 1200 rpm but I can't find the page now)
7. on the freeway, when the bike has been running for at least 5-6 miles, all of a sudden it will pop and lose power and buck, spit out some smoke, then return to normal (happens rarely, but a few times a month, enough to make me nervous)
8. eventually it started dying on me when pulling out into traffic, even after a few miles of riding and a few minutes of warm-up ahead of time

I live in western WA and I ride in all but the worst rain storms. The symptoms above get worse in the rain.

Once it started dying, I was really frustrated so I took it into the local dealer. That was at about 780 miles or something. They looked it over, told me that the plugs were fouled, so they replaced the plugs and reset the TPS, and they told me I needed to warm the bike up for a few minutes before I ride it (which I'd been doing) and that I should put premium gas in it (which I'd been doing, never put anything but the highest grade Chevron in there), and that it ran fine.

That night, I drove it home and it seemed to run fine. Although the low-rpm jerkiness remained. The next morning (even when cold), it seemed to run really good. The next afternoon however, it was back to its old self, sputtering, giving me troubles, jerking all over the place. It gradually got back to the point where it was dying and so I brought it in again at 1000 miles.

They looked it over and told me it ran great and that the behavior I was experiencing was "representative of product" which is basically that all Buells of similar make/model act the same way. They told me that I needed to warm it up for at least 7 minutes before I drove it anywhere. I read the book and watched the video that came with my bike, and they both say to let it run for a "couple of minutes" and then "ride easy" until it's warmed up.

So, whatever, I'll entertain their assertion that it's "normal" to have to warm up a brand-new fuel-injected bike for 7 minutes before I ride it anywhere.

So for the next couple of weeks I rolled my bike out of the garage each morning and stood by it while it warmed up for 7 minutes. During this warm up period the bike jerks almost to the point of falling over, the rpms are all over from just below 500 to just over 1000, and eventually they smooth out to about 1000.

After 7 minutes, I ride the bike and it rides okay. It still seems to hesitate a bit and the low-rpm jerkiness is definitely still there (anything under 3500 rpm is an adventure - and in 1st gear 3500 is >20mph). Now, if I get on it in the garage, start it, and then try to slowly ride it out of the garage into the driveway, it dies. So it's really virtually impossible to ride it unless it's been warmed up for a few minutes, but after 7 minutes it actually does feel a lot nicer. But damnit, I paid tons of money for this thing and the extended warranty, and this just doesn't seem normal to me.

Another hundred miles and I had it back at the dealer for the 1000 mile service. The guy again told me that the bike was perfect, ran great during the test ride, and that they took it outside, let it get really cold, and then warmed it up. They said it was all good.

So when I picked it up (right at closing, so they left before I got the bike started -- my fault but I work late), I started it and stood outside the dealership for another 7 minutes while it warmed up.

Same thing with the crazy idle, but now it was spitting out tons of white smoke/steam from the exhaust. I hadn't seen that before, but it could have been condensation since it was outside for a few hours before I picked it up (I always garage it). The white went away after it warmed up.

So around here the coldest I ride is when it's about 36 degrees out. I have the problem no matter whether it's 30s-50s. I had the same problem in October, when it was in the 60s and 70s (although not as bad).

So I'm wondering whether this is normal. If not, do you guys have any idea what I can do to get this problem fixed? The biggest problem is that the dealer always says they can't reproduce a rough ride, that all I have to do is warm it up and it's all good. But it's not!

Thanks in advance,
Brian
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lightning_bug
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 12:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have to admit that Buells are temperamental, but what you are describing is unusual based on my experience with the product. I have an '06 Ss and have not experienced any problems outside of a fuse blowing issue that was resolved by a determined tech. I usually start the bike before I put my gear on which gives it about 2-3 minutes to wake up, then I am off.

I have however had a similar issue that you are having with a metric cruiser I was riding some years back. Turns out in my case one of the plug wires was loose causing intermittent issues that got worse when it rained...fould plugs was original diagnosis blamed on bad gas before actual cause was found. Once the wires were re-seated on both ends, I never had the issue again. I have also heard of a bad voltage regulator causing this also. I hope you get this resolved soon. The Ss is my first Buell too, and I have to say I cannot imagine ever riding anything else. My perma-grin is a constant reminder of just how much I enjoy the Buell.

As far as the surging concern, it is a Buell thing in my opinion that can be reduced with some effort. It doesn't bother me enough yet to mess with it, but there is a lot of help on the topic in the KV. Then again, the surging you are experiencing my be magnified by your other issues.

After reading posts on this forum for some time now, I am convinced that someone will know the cure for your bike's symptoms.

(Message edited by Lightning_Bug on January 19, 2007)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 01:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks for your reply, Lightning_bug. Hopefully I can get this figured out, because honestly I wish I kept my Ninja 250 over this : ( (The specific bike I test rode DID NOT have these symptoms, but it was sold before I could buy it so I just got another one, I figured it's a new bike... ugh.)

Anyway, I forgot to put some potentially crucial information. It's hard to remember everything.

Well the "official" diagnosis is that I'm not letting it warm up enough, and that warming 2-5 minutes isn't enough, and the bike is never going out of "cold mode," meaning, it's never warming up enough to trigger the computer to go out of the mode wherein it feeds a bunch of fuel or something to warm the engine up.

The dealer is telling me that although letting it warm up 2-3 minutes is probably fine in the summer, that it needs to do that "click over" before I start riding, because with the "wind chill" in the winter, it is never able to reach operating temperature otherwise (even with me riding the bike for over half an hour!!!???).

This diagnosis is somewhat supported by the fact that if I let it warm up for 7 minutes, most of the issues go away. However, I have talked to a 2006 Ulysses owner and a bunch of harley owners (which may or may not have similar engines? I'm not that familiar with harleys), all of whom live in the same general area, and they say they don't experience these issues.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Justin_case
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 09:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Check every electrical connector that you can reach. Unplug it, look inside, make sure the metal pins are all the way in, reconnect them. Sound like you have a bad sensor or related wiring. Did the dealer even check for codes?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Al_lighton
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Impossible to diagnose easily from a distance, but I'd sure want to see what the AFV value was before it went into the dealer, again when it came out of the dealer when it seemed to be running fine, and then again when it started running badly again. Knowing how the AFV is moving is great diagnostic info.

If there is something wrong that is driving the AFV wild, and if they had reset it at the dealer, and then the AFV relearned after you picked it up, it could explain the timing of when it was acting up.

As to what exactly is wrong, there isn't enough info to venture a guess. The bike should not need to warm up for 7 minutes in order to ride it. I generally don't agree that the bikes should be warmed up on the kickstand at all. IMHO, they should be driven immediately, but very gently for the first few miles while the engine comes up to temp. That minimizes the time that the engine runs on warm-up fueling. I have yet to foul a plug on a Buell.

Check all ground connections. Al's #1 rule of motorcycle mechanics: All problems are a grounding problem until proven otherwise.

Al
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 01:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Look at the wiring bundle going to the ECM, and remove, clean, and reconnect your battery terminals.

I had an invisible (literally) nick in a wire going to my ECM where it got routed wrong (by me) over the negative battery terminal. It would ground some random ECM input randomly depending on where I was sitting on the seat, how I was accelerating, and current phase of the moon.

I could see where a nick might be, and on a whim, tried poking and wiggling it. Sure enough, if I did it just right, my problem appeared. A near microscopic inspection of it revealed the smallest of nicks.

Slapped on some cable armor, taped and cable tied things down to prevent future problems, and everything was good again.

I also had a bad connection on a battery terminal, which could also be causing what you describe.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Americanmadexb
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

same excact thing happened to me with my 06 Ss. It just needs broken in. I also fouled the plugs, it was jerky and i was pissed. Just let it warm up, dont blip the throttle and take it easy for the first 5 miles. Once you get your 1,000 mile service it shouldnt do it anymore, at least mine didnt!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Xbswede
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I also have a 06' 12Ss and live here in the NW. I commute to work when ever it's not raining too much. It's usually 30 - 33 degrees in the mornings and I have a 30 mile one way commute.

With that said, I have not experienced any of the issue except the Surge in first gear under 3500 rpm. I usually only let my bike warm up for about 2-3 minutes before taking off.

Maybe the TPS reset was done wrong causing the AFV to be off and fouling your plugs etc. I would try another service mechanic to see if they have the same results.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, I had it in for the 1k service. Now it's leaking oil out of the two inspection plates (great). On top of that, they still insist nothing is wrong with it. I just got the bike back on Thursday. Friday I noticed that the clutch was a lot more difficult to pull. Ugh.

This morning it was in the low-40s, I let it warm up for the full 7 minutes, had a rather uneventful ride most of the way to the ferry, but at one of the last stop signs, I stopped, started to go, and the damn thing backfired twice, lost power, spit out some smoke, and then went back to normal. This is really driving me crazy.

If the bike was used and I was having issues like this, I would surely spend the time to follow all the suggestions in this thread, but I spent a ton of cash on the bike and the extended warranty and in my opinion, these guys should fix my bike, give me a different one, or give me my money back. I shouldn't have to spend hours in my garage working on a brand new bike!

From your posts, it sounds like it is definitely not normal and they are just giving me the runaround. I guess I will have to figure out something else to do.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Thespive
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 01:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

YOU NEED TO CALL BUELL CUSTOMER SERVICE. PERIOD. Your issue needs to be remedied and the problem entered in the database to see if there are others like yours. I would suggest changing dealers if that is a possibility. There is no reason you should feel negative toward that bike, you should be out having fun like the rest of us.

--Sean
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lightning_bug
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 06:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/229562.html?1161522677

I found a post that sounds similar to what you are going through. Read the post from Tomr. He has an Ss with backfire and cut out issues. In his case the dealer found after several attempts a faulty cam position sensor. It might be something to suggest to your tech.

I agree with Thespive, your dealer should be dedicated to resolving your issue rather than dismissing it as normal.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cgocifer
Posted on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 04:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ok, please don't take this wrong, but if this is your first Buell/Harley Davidson product, well, welcome to the American push-rod lump of an engine called the 45 degree V-Twin. I have an 04 XB12S with 2000 miles on the clock. It too jerks and pops and once and a while gets mad at me and just decides to stall or cough through the air box. This is my 4th streetbike and my first American bike save for my Indian 50 that I had when I was 5 years old. It took me a while to get used to the fact that no way in hell would this bike ever be as smooth or as refined as a Japanese motorcycle. Everything you have described is pretty common with many owners.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ridrx
Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 03:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I ride an 06 12R that just turned 5k(goes for 5k serv. in the morn.), and i have to disagree with the 'thats just a Buell 4 ya' scenario. I warm mine until I hear the idle become steady/smooth (usually 2-5 minutes,depends on ambient temp.) then its good to go. Maybe I got a "wednesday" bike, never had a single problem. No leaks,rattles,shorts,driveability or mileage probs.. The thing runs like a freight train. I agree you should not have to wrench on a new bike, sounds like the dealer (r they a Buell dealer or HD only) is trying to fix the symptoms rather than the problem. There are LOTS of variables to consider when trying to diagnose/tune any internal combustion engine, you said the dealer was 780mi. away(1 way or round trip?). Probably diff. alt., baro. press., humidity, etc... if that distance is one way I recommend investing in a service manual and some basic tools. Hope you get your issues sorted soon, riding season is comin', and try not to let this ruin the joy of your new Buell. They really are great bikes when all is in order. Just wanted to let you know that you experience is not the norm. Good Luck.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The dealer is less than a mile from my house. It's a buell and harley dealer. They sell a lot more harleys, though. I'm certainly not confident in their service dept. after what I've been through. But I don't have time to take the bike to the next nearest dealer, which is about an hour away.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Towjam
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

told me that I needed to warm it up for at least 7 minutes before I drove it anywhere.

This is your dealer's way of telling you they have no clue and they hope you go away. An EFI engine only needs to idle long enough to get the oil flowing through the system. If you're running the appropriate viscosity oil for your temperatures, this should only take 1-2 minutes tops.

Sorry I don't have more technical suggestions for you but it it makes the veins in my neck pop out when I hear some of the crap that dealers try to pass off to their customers. (And it's not just Buell/HD dealers. I had a similar issue with a BMW dealer who couldn't fix the gas gauge on my 1200GS.)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I completely agree with you.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Towjam
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

By the way, if you haven't done so already, ask the dealer why the owners manual is recommending a warmup of only 15-30 seconds. (It's on page 47 of the '07 manual. Not sure about the '06.)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gotj
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Towjam,

It's the same 15-30 seconds warm-up time in the 2006 manual except on page 50.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 12:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, I asked them about that, and they told me the manual was written with places like CA in mind (morons).

Well, Buell is sending out a "regional representative" on Tuesday. Hopefully they will be able to verify that there is a problem and I can get these guys to give me my money back for this crappy lemon.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, here's an update. I sent Buell Customer Service a letter a while ago requesting repurchase of my bike under the WA state lemon law. Yesterday, a rep from Buell came out to ride the bike. Before he rode it, he asked me if I wanted him to fix the bike or if I was serious about a repurchase. I told him I was serious about a repurchase and I didn't want him to repair it. He put about 40 miles on it and told me he didn't find a problem, and he was going to report back to the lady I talked to at Buell. After a while he called me back and asked me again if I wanted him to repair the bike. I said, "I thought you just told me you didn't find any problems with it?" Dead silence on the phone for about 10 seconds, then he said, "well, I just need to put it in my report."

I'm so far beyond frustrated it's not even funny. So apparently he's going to report back to Buell that he didn't notice any problems, and then Buell makes a decision about whether to repurchase the bike. I can supposedly expect a response back within two weeks.

If they deny my request for repurchase, I have to take them to arbitration.

The most frustrating part of this is that the bike has this problem pretty consistently when it's either cold out (33-38 degrees) or when it's raining, and especially when it's both cold and raining.

But nobody at the dealer has given it a test ride in the cold or the rain! So of course they're going to keep telling me that there's no problem because they won't follow the steps to reproduce. Argh.

I'll post again when I hear back from Buell Customer Service. But I don't have much faith at this point because when I talked to her on the phone (before the dude came out to test ride), she told me there was no problem and that the guy would just verify that there was no problem. No apology for having troubles with the bike, nothing.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Brain:

The person who visited you is a S.O.A.R. an acronym for something like Service Operations Area Representative.

These are folks, typically with a technical background and an excellent level of product familiarity, who are called on to intervene and help diagnose and rectify such issues.

It's a solvable problem. If you haven't, buzz over to the "Court in Session" area and read the drivel I wrote a couple years ago about dealing with these folks.

I've not time today, but am going to print this out and read it in it's entirety this weekend.

Keep focused on the problem and it's resolution as opposed to determining who is or is not a moron. If you need morons in the PacNW, let me know . . . we have spares in New York City.

Court
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 02:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Court, I have read your write-up and I understand and appreciate it. I have been nothing but polite (although persistent) to everyone I have dealt with at the dealership and on the phone. I get the feeling that they are not interested in taking me seriously at all, but I don't know why. I may be completely wrong, maybe I'll get a letter from the lady at Buell saying that they will repurchase the bike. I have nothing to do now but wait anyway.

Trust me, I understand how difficult it is to diagnose a problem that is hard to reproduce. I am a software developer, after all. However, what I get from the dealer is that they took it out on a test ride (2 miles or so) and that there is no problem, and the bike is ready to be picked up. They won't ride it on cold mornings, and they won't ride it in the rain. These are the two times where it's actually not that difficult to reproduce the problem. *sigh*

The "S.O.A.R." did ride it for about 40 miles, but it was dry and relatively warm out (mid 40s) yesterday. I did get the feeling that he knew what he was talking about, but I also knew that he would have difficulty reproducing the problem due to the lack of rain and cold weather.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 03:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Since Rocket is already convinced I am a cool-aid drinking brainwashed cheerleader anyway...

I'll just point out that if you are telling the tech you don't want the bike fixed, and that you are going to pursue repurchase under the lemon law anyway, that there may not be much point in him spending a lot more time trying to diagnose the problem.

In other words, him knowing if you want it fixed or if you are going to start legal action under the lemon law may change the manner in which he will proceed to diagnose and repair the problem. Did he say "there is no problem" or "I was unable to reproduce the problem"?

Invite him back, and hose him down with the garden hose before he leaves the driveway. It might not reproduce the problem, but it will probably make you feel better : )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You doing all the right stuff.

My take. . . for what it's worth . . . is that you want to get this bike fixed.

The fine print of a "repurchase", at least to me, relegates that to the last option I want.

Did you get contact info from the S.O.A.R. or is there a channel whereby, and it sounds like you have, provide additional documentation. I'm wondering if there is a way to look further into the cold and rain element of this. Just curiosity on my part but I know that Buell are not supposed to run that way and that the symptoms you describe are UNusual.

I'm trying to imagine things, and I profess to have precious little technical expertise, that would cause the conditions you describe.

Hell. . . I may come ride it. I used to do that from time to time for Buell and I love to ride in the cold and rain.

: )

Keep us posted. I think you're doing the right stuff.

Court
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cgocifer
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Are you sure you don't have buyer's remorse? Please don't take this personally, but I'm just speculating. I ask this because I went through similar feelings when I Bought my Buell. After riding Japanese repliracers for over 12 years, I wasn't accustomed to the quirks of the Buell and the way the big, lumbering, lump of a push rod engine reacts to certain things like temperature. These bikes aren't smooth when compared to the Japanese machines, and they do cough and sputter from time to time. Mine seemed to get better with milage, but still does what it wants to once in a while. As for fighting this issue, I don't think you have much to stand on if certified mechanics and a S.O.A.R. rep. say there is nothing wrong with the bike. You may want to consider an opinion from a non-Buell/HD motorcycle mechanic.

(Message edited by cgocifer on February 28, 2007)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 07:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Cgocifer - random sputtering and dying, even at freeway speeds, isn't buyer's remorse. I actually spent months doing research and test rides before I decided on a Buell. I don't expect it to ride like a japanese sport bike, and in fact, other than my ninja 250 and a KLX 650, I haven't spent a lot of time on other bikes. The 250 is a 2-cyl with a carb and the other is a 1-cyl. I'm not after smoothness, I love the torque and power of the Buell, I'm definitely happy with the ergos and these bikes are the most bad ass looking bikes on the planet. I'm angry because it doesn't work properly and it's dangerous. If they had offered to take the time to fix the bike during any of the first 4 times I brought it in, I would have definitely said yes, I didn't even consider "lemon law" until someone heard about my problems and mentioned it to me. I tried and tried to get them to take me seriously and they refuse.

If mileage is the answer (and I'm not convinced it is), it's going to be hard to get there because it's unridable in the rain and I live in western WA (seattle area) - it rains most of the time here. I've had the bike for 5 months now and it has a mere 1300 miles on it. After 5 months on the ninja, I had over 5000 miles on it. I can't ride it because it's dangerous.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cgocifer
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I hear ya, I wasn't judging, just speculating because I've heard of way too many people who bought Buells, but hated their character after the fact. I know what you are talking about. My bike has coughed and abruptly quit on me while leaned over in a turn. That was very scary and definitely made me lose some confidence in my bike while riding agressively. So, I wish I knew what causes this problem along with fouling plugs, backfiring through the throttle body, stalling for no reason, and the sputtering for no aparent reason. If you do ever discover what is wrong with your ride, let me know, because I've been trying to figure it out for a very long time now. The mechanics always told me that they never noticed anything wrong with the bike. I've even tried a Jardine can, Race ECU, and filter to no avail. Most likely a fuel injection problem.

Ciao
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, there is an end in sight! Here is a quick summary and the resolution below. Thanks all for all your help!

Well I bought an 06 XB12Ss last year and I've been having problems with it sputtering and dying randomly when it's cold out and/or when it's raining. I brought it to the dealer 4 times and they couldn't find a problem. I read up about the WA state lemon law (which also applies to motorcycles over 750cc) [http://www.atg.wa.gov/LemonLaw/default.aspx]. I followed their directions and wrote to the manufacturer directly asking for repurchase of the bike. Shortly thereafter they sent a representative out to look at the bike. The guy rode it for 45 miles or so and wasn't able to reproduce the problem (not surprising since it was warm and dry out that day and the problem occurs mostly when it's wet & cold out). This was about a week and a half ago. He told me I would be hearing from Buell within 2 weeks.

Well I just got a call from Buell and they are going to repurchase the bike! I am surprised (since they couldn't reproduce the problem), but also relieved and happy because riding a bike that randomly sputters and dies is very nerve-wracking (let's put it this way, after 6 months of riding my last bike, I put over 5500 miles on it, after 6 months on this bike, it's only at 1500 miles).

So anyway, the last things to do are to take it in to the dealer where they will cut a check to the bank for a payoff and the rest to me.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cgocifer
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, good luck. What's your next bike going to be? A Honda perhaps? Very reliable so I've heard.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm not quite sure. Probably a water-cooled inline 4 : (
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cgocifer
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Too bad you got a bad taste in your mouth. Buells aren't for everyone. Some people have great luck, others, well, not so much. Try not to get the same ol' bike everyone else has. Check out Triumphs. The Speed Triple is awesome and so is the Daytona 675. Both have way more power than the Buell. Pretty sad that a 675cc bike has more HP than a bike with 1200cc. I like the torque though and being different.

Peace
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 03:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Even Honda produces some serious lemons. They don't typically buy them back.

Buell typically goes the extra mile for its customers, especially for the very few that suffer problems and are unhappy and frustrated. This is simply the corporation reflecting the integrity of its founder, Erik Buell.

Though still an unfortunate situation, Brian's (Saberworks') experience further demonstrates what a positive attitude versus a vindictive antagonistic attitude can yield, something productive and satisfactory for the customer and all achieved in short order without resorting to years of hassle, lots of time, and a protracted legal battle. Way to go Brian, and way to go Buell!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Saberworks
Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, yesterday the bike was repurchased and I am happy. Buell certainly took care of me after all, and it didn't take any legal action whatsoever, just a letter. Thanks all for your help and support. I replaced it with a new 07 ZX-6R.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Enjoy the new bike!
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration