| Author | Message | ||
     Timbo |
I've been looking into GPS units, and would like to know what others are using on their bikes. If people could list what model they have, what is it's size, what it typically costs. What they do/don't like about it, is it easy to use, what are it's weak/strong points, etc. You get the idea. First off, let me say I don't currently own a GPS nor do I know much about them, other than what I have picked up here and there online the last couple weeks. That's why I'm asking here. I know there are very smart, resourceful people here willing to share info, and figure others might like info on this subject as well. ----------------------------------------- What I'm looking for... I want one mainly for dirtbike adventures, but would like to be able to use it on my street bike as well. I'm leaning towards the Garmin Quest at this time. I have seen the Streetpilot 2610 mentioned in other threads, but it costs more than I want to spend. Actually the Quest is more than I wanted to spend too, initially, but after looking around some, I have come to the conclusion I'm probably going to have to pony up to get a decent one. But I'm not sure if there are better units out there for similar cost, or if the one I'm looking at is a poor choice for the application. Any and all input is appreciated. Thanks. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Its tough to find a GPS that will fill the needs for both road and off road riding. Especially if if has to be rugged enough for dirt bike adventures and also able to use topo mapping. A handheld like the Magellan Meridian or Garmin 60 or 76 series would be ruggedized, waterproof and can use optional topo mapping packages. For serious off road riding so I would probably prefer to carry one of those in a pocket or pack and use it for occasional reference. If I wanted to see and follow a preplanned route on a GPS like that, I would probably want one of the same models in a non-rigid and padded mounting like a tank bag. The topo packages don't offer the bells and whistles like destination search, automatic routing, and the stuff that comes with the road navigation units. I don't consider the 2610 to be rugged enough for use on a dirt bike, even a civilized one like the Uly. Tom Tom is about the come out with a model called the Tom Tom Rider that is going to be the first GPS that is ruggedized and also waterproofed to meet the IPX7 spec. The MSRP on that is around $1,200 I think and it should be on the street soon. I'm using the Tom Tom Navigator software now on a PDA (in a tank mounted map case on my M2) and it is very good. The Rider software is going to be very similar and it will probably meets the needs of and satisfy most bikers. It will use SD cards for storing map data. If the Rider is similar to the one I'm using now, you can get all the U.S./North America mapping data on one 2Gb SD card. As a warning, you do not want any of the models that store the map data on a microdrive (small hard drive) as those drives will not stand up to use on a motorcycle. Generally speaking, the current models intended for mounting on the dash of an cage will come up short on ruggedizing and won't be weatherproofed as far as using them on bikes. But many people are using them there and are happy with them. Jack | ||
| Coolice |
I have owned a Garmin StreetPilot III for over 5 years now. I use it on the Buell, mounted to my tank bag, and in my cages and motorhome. As far as dirt riding I purchased a Garmin E-Trex, it's less expensive in case in gets damaged but still is great for getting back to the start point or finding those great hills we climbed last time...... My StreetPilot III will be used on my Uly with the tankbag unless I do a lot of offroad riding. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Mike - You're violating one of the GPS rules here. You are not supposed to remain satisfied with a GPS for that long. You really should be into a color model and have purchased several optional software packages by now. :>  Jack | ||
| Coolice |
Oh....my Streetpilot is color. I know I need to upgrade my software but Buell just keeps making new bikes and other goodies, need more $$$, don't we all? And my Uly should be in the garage in a couple of weeks so I guess the gps is further down the list, oh wait X-mas is coming hmmmm.... | ||
| Al_lighton |
I just bought a iPAQ2790 bluetooth PDA (needed for testing VDSTS in the PDA version), figured I'd get a bluetooth GPS to go with it for use dirtbiking and street riding. But I probably won't dash mount it in either case, I'll likely just bring it out when I need it. Any recommendations on Bluetooth GPS receivers and/or SW would be welcome. Thanks, Al | ||
| Csg_inc |
Timbo I have the BMW version of the garmin 2610. I bought a second BMW cradle and used a ram mount on the handle bar of the Uly and the KLR. It is the same unit that they use on the BMW GS bikes so it is water proof, gas proof and fairly rugged. From what I heard the quest unit has been causing problems for HD with mounts that break. This may be why the Buell mount has not been released yet for the re-badged quest unit. The current photo of one mounted was on the Buell Spain site. I keep both the street map and topo map data loaded and can toggle back and forth to view the graffic display. We did a dual sport ride on fire roads that we had created a route for on the PC and it worked just great. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Al, I like the Tom Tom Navigator 5 software. They offer a combo package with a BT GPS receiver but I've not tried the BT stuff. I'm using a wired GPS receiver. I'm using that on an iPAQ 3765 in a tank top map case. Its easy to use, you can run it with a finger tip by tapping on icons for the most part. Jack | ||
| Timbo |
Thanks for the input guys. I did some searching on models mentioned... I like some of the features of the Magellan Meridian, like the way it displays your path, I think they call them waypoints(not all brands display them the same way), and the price is right, but it seems to not have much memory. Well, I'm still looking and learning. Thanks again. Timbo | ||
| 2k4xb12 |
As a warning, you do not want any of the models that store the map data on a microdrive (small hard drive) as those drives will not stand up to use on a motorcycle. Hmmm, my Lowrance iWay 500C (hard drive based)comes with a RAM motorcycle mount. Lowrance claims the HDD they use is specially ruggedized. Although intended primarily for cagers, this is a fully waterproof unit which the manufacturer also endorses use on motorcycles. Considering this, I still wouldn't recommend it's use on our Buells. I wouldn't feel good about inflicting so much vibration on it. Because of it's rugged nature, it's also a bit on the large and heavy side. Steve. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Timbo - I have two Meridians (one color, one monochrome) and have used them for highway, off road (topo), and marine navigation. They do a great all around job, the emphasis is on "all around". There are specific models that can do any one of those things better but not with that much versatility. And not in a ruggedized, waterproofed, handheld that will run for 6-12 hours on two AA batteries. There are always tradeoffs and pros and cons. The memory on the Meridians is fine as it is because of their having a SD card slot. The basemap memory (32mb) is more than you'll ever need or use, the expansion memory (where you store your regional maps) is unlimited. When you drive off the maps on your current SD card you can change to another SD card with more maps. The Garmins that appear to have more memory (115mb) are limited to that amount for the base map and regional maps. You can fill that space with regional maps (10 or 15 states maybe in 115mb?). If you drive beyond those maps and want to change to more/different maps, you need to have your software with you and get access to a computer. With the SD card slots in the Meridians you can make up your regional maps at home and use 1Gb or 2Gb SD cards to carry all the additional/optional mapping packages you care to buy. It would take about three 1Gb cards to carry the highway and topo mapping for the entire U.S. The whole thing on which brand to buy, which is best, how they are in use, etc., is very arcane. And it is a little tainted by the desire of the GPS companies to "capture" you and all your future needs. For a consumer, it is hard to figure out exactly what you have and if it actually satisfies your needs/makes you happy without actually buying the stuff and trying it out. All the jargon about basemaps, regional maps, and stuff is confusing at first, I've figured most of it out after about 5 years of rubbing it with time and money (I'm retired, its a hobby). Feel free to fire away on or off the group if you want more details. Jack | ||
| Timbo |
Jack, Thanks for your help. One thing I was wondering about, with regards to the Meridian. Can the unit itself save information to the SD card? For example, if I'm out tooling around in the desert and find a trail I really like, maybe find a good spot to take a break and then head back towards camp. Can I save that info on the card and then pull it up later so I can do the same ride again? That would be cool to do, because I could have different cards for different riding spots. Also, I would like to ask, is the color version nicer to use than the monochrome version? Is it a big difference? Thanks Timbo | ||
| Coolice |
Timbo- I have the Garmin StreetPilot III and it will save waypoints when you push a button, so you can have the "bread crumb" trail to get back there someday. I did it on a 6-day offroad trip a few years ago and saved it, I could go back today and it would take me to the same trails. My Garmin StreetPilot is color, I like the color screen for definition between roads, parks, etc. | ||
| Al_lighton |
I picked up a Globalsat blutetooth GPS Rx and the Tom Tom navigator 5 package. Got the GPS Rx communicating with the PDA in about 15 minutes of doinking around, was amazed that I could pick up 8 or so GPS satellites inside my office. Was clear that a PDA without a big CF flash card is about worthless, so a 2 GB card is on the way so that I can load SW+maps in the thing. I'll post my a review from the perspective from a GPS and PDA idiot once I've loaded a map and played with it a bit. The Globalsat GPS Rx is pretty cool, nice compact package, lots of battery, came with both an AC and a cigarette lighter charger. And my serial sync cable arrived yesterday, so I'll be hooking the PDA up to the bike diagnostic port and checking out the VDSTS SW on the PDA platform later today. I've run the SW on it, seems plenty intuitive, don't anticipate any problems being able to reset the TPS with the PDA. Sure beats hauling the laptop around for that. I'll bring it with me to Buell events and reset TPS's for those that want it. Al | ||
| Jackbequick |
Timbo - Yes, when you have a SD card in the Meridian, Card Utilities will show up on the menu and you can save or load tracks and waypoints/routes to from the the SD card. That is where you would load the your choice of available detail maps from too. The base map has major roads and stuff on it, for street level details, POIs, and all the other stuff down to the local level, you can (and need to really) have a secondary map loaded. The secondary maps can be from any of the MapSend DirecRoute, Topo 3D, BlueNav (and a couple of other) packages. The DirectRoute maps will give you autorouting by roads on the Meridian. It is a little bit simplistic compared to a dedicated nav unit (the Roadmates or StreetPilots for example) but it certainly works well enough. I have used my Meridian to find and get to a marina by road, then gotten on a boat, changed to a BlueNav chart, and navigated my way home by water. And it is not simplistic or casual navigation. I'm in someone elses $500,000 and up boat, on a beautiful but dangerous coastline, and the routes take me far enough offshore that I'm out of sight of land. And I also wind up with tracks (saved to the SD card) of every place I was. If I want to perserve some of the details for future use I can use the track to place waypoints and the waypoints can be used to to build routes new routes. I have all that nav info backed up and saved off, it bolsters my memory and makes life a lot easier. Jack | ||
| Jackbequick |
Steve - Your iWay has a 20GB drive, that may be a standard 2.5" ATA/IDE laptop drive. I have had good luck using that type of drive in pretty rough service in RV's, trucks, and boats. In fact, I have never had one fail in use. The Garmins that have been failing use "microdrives" (2GB? 4GB?). It may be that those drives are more fragile. Further to that, Garmin claims their microdrives are "special" and recommends against you replacing your own broken drive. But it may be possible to replace your own drive in the GPS units that are using standard 20GB ATA/IDE drives. The next question would be if I can backup and restore that to a new drive to repair a system that got frazzled from vibration. Those are some of the things I consider as I look at the newer GPS units. I follow several GPS newgroups as a hobby/interest. It looks to me like the dedicated nav units that store data on a CF or SD card, not a hard drive, are safer bets for motorcycle use than the ones with hard drives. Jack | ||
| 2hogs |
Hey Jack, Quick question about the Meridian GPS units. I checked out the Roadmate series (300 NA specifically) and you had to go though this 'authorization' process before you could use an SD memory card with the unit. Are the Meridian series the same? OR Can I load may data to an SD card (using a card reader) and pop it in the Meridian and go riding? Just curious. I'm still deciding on a GPS for the XB12X, FLTRI and the pickup. Thanks Joe | ||
| Jackbequick |
Joe - I've not used a 300, I've read the manuals and discussions about them. But I can't guarantee this tto be right so verify it if it is important to you. The RM300 authorization process, is free and fairly simple. It keeps people from making map files for use on more than one GPS unit. For the RM300 it "locks" one GPS unit and one SD card to each other by the serial numbers on the GPS and the SD card. So after the SD card is unlocked you can generate map files for only one particular GPS unit. You can generate them with the SD card in a PC (fast) or in the GPS (slow). The Meridian is different than the RM300. It does not require map files to be on an unlocked SD card for the DirectRoute (highway and street) and Topo 3D packages. For those packages, the GPS unit's hardware serial number is coded into the map files as they are created and they will only work on that GPS. The map files can be created to a hard drive (very fast), to a SD card in a reader/burner (fast), or to the SD card in the GPS (slow). For the Meridian for DirectRoute and Topo 3D you can create map files for your GPS and store them on hard drives or CD's and copy them to and from SD cards as needed. Or, if you have enough SD cards, you can have all the map files with you all the time and swap SD cards. There are some other intracacies. Only one detail map file can be in use at a time and you cannot autoroute across map files. It all sounds complicated and burdensome but in the end the benefits gained seem to win out. The MapSend BlueNav nautical chart files are a third case, they require an unlocked SD card and only one particular one file name can be used. And you have to get the unlocked card from Magellan, it cannot be unlocked over the net. So, in theory at least, to protect the chart data from being abused or misused, you can only have one map file at a time on the unlocked SD card. That card can be used in any Magellan GPS that will read and use the proprietary format. I evolved to being a guy with several GPS units (handhelds and PDAs with external receivers) because of my interest in it all, the places I wanted to use them (car, ATV, motorcycle, boat, etc.), and the different types of mapping involved (highway, topo, and marine). Ironically, the topo maps that paper topo map users all love (the USGS 1:24,000 topo maps) are free to the public in electronic form as Digital Raster Graphics (DRG). Those are calibrated, bitmapped, raster images of the paper maps. But you can't find a good ruggedized, waterproof, handheld GPS unit to use the DRGs on. The people that make and sell those handhelds take the same DRGs, digitize and vectorize them(giving up some detail and losing some of the scale in the process), and sell them in proprietary format for for use on the their handhelds. | ||
| 2hogs |
Jack, Thanks much. The way the Meridian series handles the SD cards makes sense. Seems like you get the software to 'know' the hardware (GPS) once (to get the units serial #) and then you're free to make the maps for your unit as you want/need. I don't swim so those proprietary nautical cards won't matter. Course, being able to download Topo maps may come in handy when motorcycle camping. I think the Meridian series deserves another look. I spend money on the motorcycles pretty easily, (4 new bikes in the last 4 years), but other things get serious research first. Thanks again. Cheers | ||
| Timbo |
Good info guys. Thanks a bunch. Timbo | ||
| Timbo |
Jack, While doing some more searching, I read a some about the Magellan eXplorist line of handhelds. Again, not knowing much about GPS units myself, I was wondering what your opinion is, or if you have heard much aboout them. Thanks, Timbo | ||
| Jackbequick |
The eXplorist line, models 100 through 700 and the top of the line XL, is a newer line and I've not used one. I have no experience with this seller either but here is a link that compares the features of the different models. Some use AA batteries, some have Li-Ion battery packs, some are monochrome, some color, some can use detail maps, some use SD cards, etc. So there is a lot to consider and decide. I think it is safe to say that most people do not want a GPS with no base map or a non-mapping GPS (no ability to upload detailed maps). The base map is the basic visual display with networks of roads and highways, ciy names, land masses and bodies of water, etc. Without a basemap you see a GPS location cursor and the waypoints and routes you create. Pretty much a blank piece of paper and you add data points that are analougous to the real world. The eXplorist line has newer and better receivers and antennas and, like the Garmin model lines, is being simplified where possible to make it simpler to use and to fight for market share. eXplorists do not have NMEA outputs and RS-232 serial ports, they connect by USB only. But that is okay as NMEA and RS-232 are not needed for anything we are talking about here. Briefly stated, it means that you can't use the GPS to provide a stream of fix data to another piece of equipment which is something that people like to use a GPS for in boats, airplanes, and some other situations. So it comes down to getting the features you want, on a unit that can use the optional MapSend detailed mapping packages you want to use. Also deciding how you want to use the detail mapping (direct from a PC or from SD cards). Then power considerations (AA's, battery pack, 12V power from a vehicle, etc.), and finally color or monochrome display. Don't dispell monochrome displays as bad. And color is good only if it is easily seen in daylight and will dim down after dark. The monochrome LCD displays are very good in both daylight and darkness. And they get better battery life than color. So, to the question, the eXplorist line looks good to me. The bigger screen on the XL is pretty seductive, having more visible detail is nice. The XL could may have a future with me as my primary backup navigation system for the boat deliveries. It is really good if you can get some hands on time with one first. Some who have used the dash mounted autorouting models are underwhelmed by what they find on handhelds, others find they simply don't want to deal with using it. I'm not anti Garmin in any sense, I started using a Magellan and stayed with them. Knowing the software and investments in optional and proprietary mapping packages has also kept me using them. I'll change brands if I find an incentive or good reason to. Jack | ||
| Timbo |
Thanks Jack. The explorist XL is starting to look like a good choice. It is bigger and heavier than the other explorist models, but I think I would like the display and features better. Timbo | ||
| Jackbequick |
Timbo - Let me know how you like that. If it doesn't work for you, try selling it to me I might be interested. Jack | ||
| Timbo |
Just an update to this thread, I got the Magellan eXplorist XL. I also got the Mapesend direct route and the Topo 3D software for it. This is my first GPS so I can't really compare it to anything else, but I can give my impressions if it. It is easy to use. Display screen looks good, even in direct sunlight. It has nice features, the file folder structure for saving maps, routes and waypoints is very familiar. The memory card option is nice too. I got the 512meg card, saving two large maps (one version of each software of the Southwest US) used less than one third of its capacity. That's including all of the points of intrest and all the detail, pretty amazing, to me anyway. The only gripe I have is that it does'nt have a "summary" type screen. You know, one that shows Distance, Time, Average Speed, Max Speed, Etc... on one page. Granted you can access all that info, but only one at a time, on different screens. Anyway, I've still got a lot to learn, but it's obvious so far, this is a great tool to have. Timbo | ||
| Reepicheep |
Tim... I am still pecking away at this problem as well and I am playing with an OLD Magellan (Map 330M), and it has the screen you are looking for, though without the map. On mine to get it to work, I must set up a route on the desktop system, download the route to the GPS, then activate the route. I can then pop over to this sort of "diaganol elevation view" of the upcoming route, showing turn and everything. It also has speed, bearing, ETA, etc all on the same screen. It is not a map screen, but does show a nice big black line with your upcoming turn. So you might want to look for that on your newer unit... it might be hidden away. I have played with other GPS mapping solutions in the car anyway, and to be honest, even a 1024x768 laptop display is about the smallest screen I would consider useful for a map view. Short of that, I want the handheld GPS tuned to give as little information as possible, but the right information, so the "just show the exact turn and information about that turn" screen, so I don't think losing the clutter of displaying the actual map is really a loss, especially for a motorcycle mounted unit. Some of the newer magellans seem to offer a LOT of bang for the buck, and even this ancient Map 330 is danged accurate and locks really fast, and the things it does it does well. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Tim, On the Map screen you have some choices for the "more info" display. It can be the street info or two data fields. For the two data fields you can choose to show any two of: • Bearing • Distance to Next (Next leg in multi-leg routes) • Distance to End • Speed [default] • Heading [default] • ETA (Estimated Time of Arrival) • Time to Next (Next leg in multi-leg routes) • Time to End • Off Course • Direction • Elevation • Time • Date • Accuracy • Avg. Speed • Max. Speed The Compass Screen also has two customizable data boxes and you can choose those from the same list above. So you can see four different items from the list on those two screens. I've not seen an XL in action yet, it has a number or features that are attractive, especially the larger display. I was almost ready to buy an XL until I figured out that it won't run the marine navigation software that I use with my Meridians. I'd have to pop for $200 worth of new marine charting to do what I'm doing now on the Meridian. The more I study the XL the less I need one. They "dumbed down" the eXplorist line a little. The Meridians have eight different screens to the Explorists four. And a total of 18 customizeable data boxes on the eight screens. The Meridian will work for me on the bike but I've been using Tom Tom 5 Navigator on a PDA. The autorouting on the handhelds is okay if you don't have anything better but it is a little simplistic compared to a RoadMate, Tom Tom, or the Garmin StreetPilots. Once you've used a nav program with more features its hard to fall back to something simpler. Jack | ||
| Timbo |
Thanks for that info guys! I knew I had more to learn. I also knew when buying this unit that it wouldn't be the best at any one thing, but pretty good at several different things. Compromises, just as Jack had taught. So far I'm happy with it, and expect it to get better as I get more familiar with it. Timbo | ||
| Reepicheep |
I have a Magellan question... Man. Finding a GPS that does the simple tasks I want is turning into a *major* project. Here is the straightforward task I want to do: 1) Sit down at my laptop with a decent (nothing fancy) mapping program and be able to build routes... both quickly (click on start point, click on end point, and autorotue) or with a lot of control (click on start point, force route to take every twisty bit I can spot between A and B, and click end point). 2) Save said route for future reference. 3) Download said route into a small portable weatherproof GPS. 4) Tell portable GPS to give me turn by turn directions. I am flexible here, I will accept street names with a picture of the turn I have to make (right turn arrow) with or without map shown. I would even accept that 3d angle view of what my path looks like at each intersection without a full map. A 3d angle view of the turn highlighted on a map would be the best, but is not necessary. 5) Audible prompts would be nice, but not necessary. 6) Detailed maps would be nice, but are not necessary. 7) On device emergency routing and "back on track" routing would be nice, but is not necessary. I am currently borrowing a Magellan 330 from a buddy and it is *****so***** close. I can fire up Delorme Street Atlas and do my plotting, using Via points to force the route where I want it to go, and to mark every turn. I can then download that to the GPS unit. It won't display the street names that well coming up to a turn, and won't show the 3d projection of the whole map, and it won't project the actual road I am on (rather it just shows a line that is as the crow flies to my next turn). But it will show a nice 3d projection of just the path I need to take, and if the projection turns, I know I need to turn, and thats pretty effective. For motorcycle navigation, I should not be worrying about anything but my turns anyway. I just want to glance a the unit, get a quick idea of how far away my next turn is, and which way I have to turn when I get there. So why am I asking? Well, Delorme / Magellan have some sort of bug, and maybe 1 out of 3 times when I plot a route, it will go down into the GPS and just not work. The waypoints get there, but the route is never created. I am also limited to (I think) about 28 waypoints. That means my maximum number of turns in a single route is 28. I could live with this and split up trips into different routes if I wanted, but it seems like a stupid limitation. I keep bugging my buddy to bring in his legal copy of mapsend that came with the Magellan, but I don't know if it will do a good job of plotting and loading the routes. Plus, I think his legal copy is getting on 5 years old. I will buy an updated $150 piece of software if it does what I want, but I am sick of sinking $$$ into software (read: Delorme) that "almost works", except when I need it. I really like the Garmin I2 (?), the little tennis ball thing. It would do everything I want except let me plot my own stupid route on my desktop and download it. It also does not appear very waterproof, though I could probably live with that (I ride in the rain, but won't be spending a lot of time needing to under those circumstances). Any help? Anybody have a cost effective (new or used) setup they can recommend that will work with my "do the heavy lifting on a laptop, and the portable unit is just a tracking device" philosophy? My experience is that plotting routes even on a laptop (with a good mouse, lots of ram, and powerfull CPU, and 1024x768 display) is about as "light" a device as I want. I will always have a light laptop with me on any serious trip anyway, if I want to recalculate I will stop at restaraunt and do so on a real computer. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Reep - I think you would be satisfied with a Meridian (Marine, Gold, Platinum, or Color) and it will meet all your needs. You are an unusual market in that you are willing to accept the limitations that exist between a handheld like the Meridian and a dedicated unit like a Quest, StreetPilot, RoadMate, etc. Timbo has found the eXplorist works for him and the similar but older Meridian works for me. I will admit that it is not my first choice as I have a more powerful alternative (Tom Tom 5 on a PDA) available when I want to use it. But I do take it for a ride occasionally when I don't want to use the tank bag or have the PDA in the car. I gave up on DeLorme a few years back. Their user's interface drove me nuts and their self maintained data was falling badly out of date. As much as I hate to recommend a M$ product, M$ Streets & Trips 2006 (not 2005!) is a great software for a laptop and has the most current NavTeq data. And it is pretty cheap at Amazon, on eBay, etc. PM me and I'll send you my "extra" Meridian to try out. It will have the detail maps for an area of your choice in it on a SD card and you can give it a full try. I hate to see anyone have to spend the money for the hardware and software in order to figure out that it ain't going to work for them. You'll be able to figure out in about 10 minutes if it will work for you because you already know the menus and stuff. The Meridians are going to go into history as one of the most useful consumer grade handheld GPS receiver simply because they have unlimited storage capacity with SD cards, plenty of optional mapping packages, and the company gave the users very good control over using the extended memory. The new Garmin "x" series handhelds have the wonderful SiRF III chip set and use microSD cards for expanded memory but for some reason Garmin has made the expansion memory much less flexible in use than did Magellan. Jack |
