| Author | Message | ||
     Jasons1 |
Crashed my '96 S1 last week. I was doing a wheelie, and while up at the balance point, I decided to hit the front brake (to stop the tire from spinning, which creates that cool puff of smoke when the tire touches down). Well, without the force of the spinning front tire pulling the front of the bike down, and giving the fact that I was giving it a constant amount of throttle, it came over backwards (at 70 mph - very top of second gear with a 29 tooth front pulley). Luckily, I had all my gear on, and was out on a private airport runway that we use to practice on, so my injuries were minimal. A little rash here and there, and a lot of bruising, but that's it. The bike didn't do too bad either. The rear tailsection hit first, shattering the fiberglass and completely smashing the tailight/license plate bracket, and then the bike fell on it's right side. It skidded on the air cleaner, header and rear peg mount for about 80 yrds. The gas tank got a small scrape, and the front PM wheel has a huge flat spot in it. But that's about it. A new tailsection, header, air cleaner, front rim and some paint, and I'll be riding again. I needed something to do this winter anyway....If any of you guys have any of these pieces that you're looking to get rid of, or know where I can find good used parts (EBay...I know), let me know. Ride safe. | ||
| X1glider |
The only suggestion I have is, "don't do that!" Glad to hear you survived that one, that's a nasty type fall. Get a back protector! | ||
| Jasons1 |
The problem is, this is the way that I LIKE to ride. Some guys like riding in big groups, cruising down the highway at 70 mph for 300 miles. Others like carving up twisties with a few friends, or just hitting the backroads for a day by themselves........ Me, I do AMA amatuer races here and there, and like to ride with a stunt team here near Cleveland called Reckless Op. It's fun to show the guys on Jap bikes that a Buell can hang with em. It's just how I enjoy my bike. I would rather sell the bike than be damned to a future rid of wheelies and stoppies. I accept the risk and consequences of my actions, and do not ask my insurance company to pay for my mistakes, or complain about it when it happens. Ride safe guys....and wear your gear. | ||
| Rick_A |
It's good you walked away...I pity the guys who ride like that in shorts, sneakers and tank tops. You never know when your luck is gonna run out. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Maybe I just don't have enough experience here, but as much as I would love to wheelie on my M2, I just can't bring myself to do it (well, besides those little 6" high hard acceleration wheelies anyway)... It seems to me the difference between a really smooth monster wheelie, and a loop, is largely luck. Like russian roulette with my Cyclone. No thanks. Even if you don't loop it, it seems like it would be even easier to bring the front down overly violently. I would never dream of dropping my Cyclone from 3 feet in the air, and landing a wheelie seems like it could easily become exactly that if everything does not go perfectly. Dirt is another story. Wheelies there are great fun, generally while in the process of getting airborne. But a 200cc dirt bike lands a lot smoother, and a loop there seems generally good for a laugh, not $2000 worth of bike damages and a free trip to the ER... But I have no beef with Jasons1... what you do with your own bike on private areas and don't claim on your insurance has no impact on me... and in fact I would enjoy watching the video  | ||
| Jasons1 |
If you wanna see the video, go to www.recklessop.com. The video is not up there yet, but should be soon. When you're first starting to learn wheelies, you will have some rough set-downs. But as you get the hang of them, you'll learn to throttle them down smoothly. As far as looping one goes, it's really not luck. It's all about feel, and PRACTICE. I've probably done 5000 wheelies on this bike, and this was my first mishap of any kind. There were some close calls, but no crashes. If I would have thought a little bit about what the effect of hitting the brake was going to do, I'd probably still be crash-free. Also, my bike is pretty well prepped for such activities. Beyond putting an honest 94hp and 86lbf to the rear tire (I KNOW...not the biggest numbers...but sufficient!), I've got a steering damper, S1 race springs, heavy fork oil, larger "new style" oil pump, etc... I've also got a 29 tooth pulley up front, that allows for longer, SMOOTHER wheelies. Not that you can't do stunts without these things, but I've learned over time that they help. BUT, I have been riding like this for almost 7 years, and have seen 3 friends die, and 2 get paralyzed. You need to understand the risks of what you're doing first, and then decide if it's something you wanna do. Ride safe. - Jason | ||
| Ken01mp |
I do my fair share of wheelies too. ive done a stoppie or a few in my day too, and there is no way to set that down nicely. i ride with a few friends through twisties, but i can largely sympathise with jason and wanting to show those rockets up, but its not easy. im down 10 hp to jason, but i still hold my own. i did grow up on dirtbikes and practice is key. but you do enough wheelies, and shit happens. i looped my buell too, not at excessive speed, but just after i grabbed second. i was a little closer to the fulcrum than i was aware of, and it shot over. after watching my bike slide and flop, im a little more careful now. it was like watching someone shoot my dog. but i saved my pennies and fixed her better than new. you cant ride a bike like a buell and not do wheelies. even on a putt through town, people are promting you to "bring her up" constantly. im just too arrogant not to oblidge, its a rush, it IS part of riding, and i wouldnt trade it for the world. i just stay away from doing a lot of wheelies in a row so not to get too comfortable with it, (drunken spring break in Panama City aside). as far as i can tell, its no more dangerous than riding fast in the twisties, and less dangerous than riding in rush hour. i dont ride wrecklessly, i ride well within my limits, but shit happens. Jason, you must be a pro to only do that once in seven years. Ken | ||
| Blake |
Jason, I'm confused about your explanation wrt hitting the front brake. Following the law of conservation of angular momentum, hitting the front brake with the wheel in the air and spinning should have helpd bring the front end down, not up/back. And I fail to see how a spinning front wheel could in any way help keep the front end down. :confused: I don't know wheelies first hand, not REAL wheelies anyway,  but I do know physics a bit. Your explanation doesn't make sense to me. I know the spinning front wheel helps stabilize the bike through gyroscopic action, turning the bars can help keep upright, but I can't see how a spinnig wheel helps keep the front down. Hitting the front brake should help bring the front down. The lost rotational momentum of the wheel (front spinning downwards, rear spinning upwards) should when stopped by the brake, transfer to the motorcycle causing the front end to begin rotating downwards. | ||
| Rick_A |
Well my Buell brothers...me and my baby (the bike) took a tumble today . I did a powerslide out of the parking lot after work...as I always do...it has that hard blacktop coating that is a bit slick. Well, I have to stop abruptly at a stoplight that is just ahead...the bike was still leaned ever so slightly...and I progressively gave more brake...then I lost the front and instantly got pitched to the ground. I was wearing full gear...so my boots and gloves got their first scars. It basically just happened...so it looks like I'm going to have a large bruise on my hip. The death tally on the bike is a Storz shift lever, stock shift lever, shift linkage, Joker shift peg, LP USA Speedscreen, Graves clip-on bar, bar end mirror, bent sidestand, and the grip. Just about everything is scratched. I have no money right now to fix it...so I guess she's gonna be looking like a true streetfighter for a while. | ||
| Court |
>>>>>The death tally on the bike is a Storz shift lever, stock shift lever, shift linkage, Joker shift peg, LP USA Speedscreen, Graves clip-on bar, bar end mirror, bent sidestand, and the grip. Just about everything is scratched. I bear glad tidings.....no one has ever successfully petitioned and been granted a handicapped parking permit because their shifter was scratched. We're glad you are ok and your timing is stellar. The winter months will give you a bit of time to accumulate the scratch. Court | ||
| Phillyblast |
Well, good news is the winter months are coming for Rick. Bad news is he just moved to FLA IIRC, so his winter time is still riding weather :-) | ||
| Rick_A |
Well, Philly is right...and my shifter parts are more than scratched...that billet Storz lever is stuck tight against my primary...so I had to ride home in 1st gear...luckily the limit is 30mph. Anyway, I can rig it all to work again...this is just not the time I wanted this to happen. I basically literally need every penny...I have to move again in a month. | ||
| Jasons1 |
Blake, Well, here's the best explanation I can give, knowing more about wheelies than physics. When the front tire is spinning, isn't there a constant forward, or downward force? Isn't that force pulling the front tire down? Not much, but maybe 35-45 lbs of force. That's just my logic, not fact. When I was up at the balance point in a sitting wheelie, which is quite high, isn't that downward force playing a factor in the balance of the wheelie? I thought that by hitting the brake, and stopping the rotational force of the wheel pulling the bike down, I was taking away that element of balance out of the equation. I don't want to admit it, but it is possible that while unwrapping my fingers from the grip to reach for the brake lever, that I accidentally rolled my wrist further backwards and just applied too much throttle. It all happened so fast, I can't be 100% sure what happened. All I know for sure, is that I was up for quite some time, and as soon as I grabbed the brake lever, I hit pavement. Maybe it was a conincidence, but I still find some logic in the rotating mass of the front tire contributing to the balance of the wheelie. What are your thoughts? You may very have more insight to this than I. Ride safe. | ||
| Rockbiter1 |
The front wheel spinning does provide a gyroscope effect..but i lack the physics knowledge to show what the effects are... | ||
| Hans |
"I don't want to admit it, but it is possible that while unwrapping my fingers from the grip to reach for the brake lever, that I accidentally rolled my wrist further backwards and just applied too much throttle." Seems me right: Imagine how difficult it would be to turn your wrist into the other direction, while you stretch your fingers getting them over the brake handle and while you want to hold the hand grip firmly while your wrist is already bend in an slightly upward position. Maybe one finger braking does it, brought into position before the front starts rising. Hans | ||
| Blake |
Jason, If what you are saying were true, you could spin a wheel backwards and it would fly to the moon. heheheh. ) No, there are no net resulting in-plane forces produced by a free spinning wheel other than its own weight. You may be thinking about the effects of gyroscopic precession, like when you try to turn the handlebars (out of plane) while the wheel is spinning and get significant resistance and a reaction 90 degrees from the steering axis and out of plane wrt the wheel. Sounds like you might benefit by rotating your front brake lever downwards a bit more. I wish I could do real wheelies. I'm too chicken. | ||
| Court |
Having the front wheel spinning is essential to stbility during "long" (as in when records are set) wheelies. Competitors use electric "spinner" motors to accomplish this. Don't ask me hwo I know Court | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Blake, I'm with you. I really want to be able to take my Buell up to the balance point, but getting it only 2/3 of the way there generally scares me to death. When I was a kid, I'd spend hours on end practicing on my spyder bike and trying to set personal distance records. But wrecks were much cheaper then, both in terms of damage to the bike and time to heal :-( But I'm getting better on my XR400, and the real great pracice bike is my wife's TTR125. You can only get it's front end up in first gear, and it's going a whopping 10 MPH at the time.. Dirt bikes are meant to be dropped, dirt is softer, and my dirt protective gear is good. | ||
| Jima4media |
If you look on my website you will find a picture of Doug (The Wheelie King) Domokos's bike that I took a picture of at Sears Point a couple of years ago. On it he has an electric motor to keep the front wheel spinning for a gyroscopic effect. Also on my site is an article by Gary Rothwell on how to do wheelies, what works and what doesn't. http://caferacers.editthispage.com/stories and http://caferacers.editthispage.com/pictures Be careful though, or you could end up on the Crashes and Mishaps page. Buells are a heavy bike to wheelie. | ||
| Rick_A |
I did a lot of wheelies when I had a stockish exhaust system and taller bars. With the race system and clip-ons...I find I need a lot more throttle to get 'er up, and the power hits a lot harder...bringing the front wheel up frighteningly fast. I only do 'em now when I feel brave. | ||
| X1glider |
Keeping the wheel spinning doesn't keep the front up in the air or pull it down. It has everything to do with keeping the bike straight. Next time you do a wheelie, with the front wheel still spinning, turn the bars to the left and you'll see that the bike wants to veer to the right, and vice versa. This is how you keep the bike straight for long distances. Keeping the front end up is all balance and throttle control. Further evidence would be to look at which direction the gyro is mounted in an airplane's nose cone. The gyro is mounted perpendicular to the direction of travel so the autopilot can keep the plane from diving, climbing and veering. | ||
| Court |
WOW...wish you heard of endings like this more often...... | ||
| Reepicheep |
There's a case of bad decision making (driving drunk) followed by a case of really bad decision making (fleeing the scene of an accident) followed by a case of astoundingly bad decision making (switching drivers) followed by a case of horribly stupid decision making (assulting pursuers with their vehicle). Geesh. Glad they were busted, feel really sorry for their kids. Started with a decision to drive when they should not have, and likely ended with both parents in jail and looking at some SERIOUS legal complications. | ||
| Court |
>>>and likely ended with both parents in jail and looking at some SERIOUS legal complications. Can happen. True story. Ex-cop pal in San Diego had a driver get pissed and swerved at him on his VFR. He got plate, went to station, filed charges, cops went to house, and the STUPID (see a common thread here) driver of the mini-van says "damn right I tried to hit the SOB" (that, of course, in the rules of evidence pretty much communicating intent and thus obviating any further need to pursue the motive angle), guy cuffed, taken to jail, charged, did one year for aggravated vehicular asault. MORAL: Don't do stupid shit. Court | ||
| X1glider |
Ok, some know of the crash at the track already. Sorry no gore in my pics, no blood, that's just Texas red dirt. I was squeezing 3rd gear in on the straight coming into 7. Realized it was too hot, so tried to trail brake thru it but the bike stood up on me. Was too far into the entry by then. Trying to lean it in again would have just made me lay it down on the pavement, so I decided to keep the bike straight up and ride it out in the run off area. Musta got hold of some uneven terrain because that's when the rear end kicked out. Bike damage is minimal. I think the fixed pegs helped in keeping some more vital areas of the bike safe from damage. It was a lowside flat spin. The problem with a spin is that it sets you down on your shoulder which grabs pavement then body slams your back flat to the pavement sending you head first in the direction of travel. I don't think a better back protector would have helped and I just have the built in EVA kind. I have dislocations in both shoulders, about 1/4" separation and the clavicle is rotated on axis too, that's the one that hurts. Can't sleep in any known position because the pressure forces the bones where they're not supposed to be. Still too swollen to be manipulated back in place. I need to go to an ortho to see if there's any ligament and tendon damage and possibly pin the bones back in place. I guarantee the fixing up is more painful than the damage, I've been there before.     | ||
| Sarodude |
Glider- Sorry to hear about your screwed back and shoulders. Not fun. I had a silly incident this weekend on our Dyna. Pulled into the Mobil in lovely New Cuyama, Ca. 2 Sportbikes juicing up. Then Loli and me on the Blast and FXD. I shut down, put down the kickstand, then began to swing my right leg over the bike so I could get off. Well, it's said there are 2 types of pilots flying retractable gear aircraft: Those who have made a gear up landing and those who WILL make a gear up landing. I made a gear up landing. Not sure what I did wrong with the kickstand but I had my leg in the worst possible position when I noticed the bike starting to fall on me. "This bike is NOT going down!" AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGH! I think I crapped in my pants straining to keep it up. "OK, so the bike is going down." Time for damage control. I did everything I could to lay the bike down as gingerly as possible - and it was a beauty. Even my left ankle agrees. OK, so here I am with this 650-ish pound lunk of motorcycle on my ankle and no way to stand up. "Don't move the ankle. You'll drop the bike further." After 3 eternities (approximately 7 seconds) passed, the 2 sportbikers and a father / son swarmed on my patheticness and lifted the bike up. Yowza. Ankle seems remarkably unfazed by the happenings. Loli was also mighty understanding of my fit of moronicdom. Only damage to bike was the derby cover which had already been scratched by a now retired boot. ALready have the replacement. Net cost? Talk to my ego... -Saro | ||
| X1glider |
At least you didn't decrease your tank capacity by a full gallon like some people I've seen. My advice: start taking bulk up powder, protien mix and start pumping iron while watching Sly training in Rocky 3 or 4! | ||
| Roadrunr |
Bob, It had to be worse than your letting on! My god look at your dash, it flipped completely over  | ||
| X1glider |
hmmm, that makes one potential detective in the house. hehe | ||
| Blake |
So you must have been doing near 70mph. Ouch! Screw the Quackaproctor. Go get a good orthopedist to look at ya. Keith still has a sore shoulder and knee too. He picked up his new XB9S today in Shreveport. Get healed and I'll show you the fast and crash free way around OHR.  |
