| Author | Message | ||
     Y2k01x1 |
Regarding the Mobil 1 oil filters, Ara posted: "This thing is a hoss! It is very noticeably heavier than other equivalent filters" 1. Does Mobil 1 suggest a longer than "standard" mileage interval between oil changes for its synthetic oil? ["standard" nowadays being, what, something between 3,000 and 7,500 miles] 2. Does anyone know if the Mobil 1 filter is heavier simply because of a beefier case and base plate or are there significant differences with its internals? 3. Could the Mobil 1 filters be engineered to trap a greater volume of contaminants in anticipation of being installed for a longer [mileage wise] period? 4. Has anyone used the Mobil 1 filters and if so, what are your thoughts? I understand the cost difference between the Mobil 1 and other filters, but I would be willing to pay the extra if I were convinced that the filters would provide improved filtration over my 2,500 mile interval. Oil can never be too clean, can it? I will try to get answers to these questions from Mobil, just wanted to see if anyone had first-hand experience. Bob | ||
| Ara |
Bob, According to the oil filter study at the MiniMopar site (link provided in Anon's Sep 16 post, above) the Mobil 1 filter is a legitimately unique design. The can is 0.022 in thick, twice the thickness of the standard Purelator filter for example. The by-pass valve is operated by a steel (vs. plastic) spring, the back-plate thickness is a whopping 0.138 inch thick steel, the gaskets are nitrile rubber, and the element is both large and entirely synthetic. I have one more H-D premium filter to use, and then the Mobil 1 will be my filter of choice. If you get some useful info from Mobil, please do share it with us here! Russ | ||
| Y2k01x1 |
Info at the Mobil/Mobil-1 websites regarding their oil filters is generally useless. Just the standard marketing department mumbo-jumbo. In the FAQ section (which appears to have been choreographed), Mobil consistently defers to "your vehicle manufacturers recommendation" when presented with questions about useage of their motor oils and filters. Quite obvious that their legal department played a role in assembling the information (and I'm not slamming lawyers or trying to start anything, really!). I was looking at the Mobil-1 filters in a Kmart store recently and they are quite a bit heavier and appear to be a bit stouter than your "average" filter. The literature on the side panels of the filter's box did mention the increased thickness of the case and base plate which, they claim, allows the filter to withstand 5 times the normal or average oil pressures or something like that. I still intend on switching to the Mobil-1 oil and filter at the X1's next oil change and I'll be sure to report anything which appears significant or unusual. I anticipate that determining any real benefits of throwing more cash at the lubrication system will be difficult, if not impossible, as the fate of the X1's motor may already be cast in stone. However, if the X1's motor experiences a catastrophic lubrication system failure immediately after installation of the Mobil-1 products, I'm guessing that I shall have some difficulty in recommending use of these particular Mobil-1 products to others. Bob | ||
| Bomber |
is there benefit to performing what I've heard called a "5-Quart Oil Change?" depending on the source, either disconnect the return line form the oil bag, and point it at a handy container or previously oiled-down portion of the shop floor, or remove the oil filter and slip a hose over the fitting and aim it as per above, start the engine, and keep pourin oil into the bag until the stuff exiting the return line or filter fitting is nice and clean . . .. it's alledged to flush spooge outa the system that normally doesn't get drained during a normal change . . . . . . info comes from Harley folks, not buell . . .. seems to me that the oil bag on my M2 has thte drain fitting in such a position as to allow most of the really bad stuff to exit . . .. but, as many have found, the urban legends surrending HD engines are many . . .. thanks | ||
| Bads1 |
Good question might be beneficial before winter storage. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I ended up doing this in perhaps an easier (and maybe safer) though little more expensive way. I got an STP filter at my local autozone that was listed as fitting the sportster. It didn't, which was probably for the better, as it looked like junk to me. But I did not discover this until after I had drained my oil. So I put the old filter back on, put in oil, and rode the next morning. A day or so later, when I picked up an FL1A filter, I did ANOTHER oil change. The oil came out (naturally) much cleaner, and you could see the old dirty oil mixed with the new clean oil. You want to make sure your oil is compatible, and Mobil 1 VTwin is pretty expensive to do this with, but Mobil 1 15-50 and Mobil 1 VTwin are probably fine together. So maybe once a year, or like every third oil change or so, pick up an extra four quarts Mobil 1 15-50, drain oil (leaving filter), top back off, ride for an hour or so, drain oil, top back off, ride for another hour, and then do normal full filter and oil change. I would feel a lot better about this then running the engine without oil, or even just turning the engine over without oil for that matter. I worry about a bubble of some sort in the wrong place at the wrong time. Personally? With the wear margin that i have running Mobil 1 VTwin, I just change the oil every 3000 miles or so, just draining the oil and refilling without pumping or flushing anything out. The stuff is probably good for 7000 miles or so, and more then half gets replaced with every change, so I think its fine. Does make you go "hmmmmmmm" though for the stock Harley non-synthetic, which does not have the durability and temperature margin of the Mobil 1. Do the XB9's still call for the stock Harley oil? Buell ought to repackage Mobil 1 V Twin with their own stickers and sell that. I pay through the nose for it anyway, might as well let my Buell dealer make the money as opposed to auto-zone. | ||
| Aaron |
Bomber, I always do 5 quart oil changes. Don't do it from the oil filter though, the oil filter is on the pressure side. That only works on Big twins that have the oil filter on the return side. My FXR, for example, has it's filter directly under the gearbox, under the bike, in the return line. I just remove the filter and stick a pan under there. On Buells, it's usually pretty easy to disconnect the return line from the oil tank. Worst case, do it from the return line fitting at the oil pump. Bill, by the procedure Bomber describes, the motor is never run without oil. You do an oil change as normal, but before you start the bike, you redirect the scavenge line to a drain pan rather than back to the tank. Old oil sitting in the engine and lines, that you couldn't drain, gets flushed out rather than recirculated. You watch the oil tank level as you're doing this and manually add oil as needed to keep from starving the motor. Shut off the motor when you see nice clean oil coming out the scavenge line. It's also a terrific thing to do after being inside the motor, to flush it out good. Particularly if you've had to do any clearancing procedures as is common in cam boxes and the like, awfully hard to control all that stuff and keep it from getting into the crankcase. | ||
| Bomber |
Reep and Aaron Thanks for the data (nice to get back to technical stuff, I'm thinking) . . . . I was a bit concerned about putting stress in the oil talk return line fitting, as I've heard a number of "oh-ohs" regarding these fittings leaking without responding to fixes . . . . sounds like running from the pump will work just fine, though . . . . . . thanks again | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: Concerned BUELLers Have a 97S3T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Since with in the FIRST year of ownership i have been running a SPORSTER OIL COOLER with a BIG TWIN THERMOSTAT,and a FORD MOTORCRAFT FL-1A OIL FILTER. The only OIL that has ever been in it is HARLY-DAVIDSON 20W-50 and that is all year. The OIL and FILTER are changed EVERY 2000 MILES!! It has 51,874.4 miles on it as of 4:PM 23Oct02!!! The TOP END(heads&cylinders) have never been off the engine nor has the CAM COVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In buelling LaFayette,BUELL MECHANIC | ||
| Peter |
...and I thought I was the only one anal enough to take off the return line at the tank... PPiA | ||
| Blake |
"You want to make sure your oil is compatible" I don't know of ANY modern name brand engine oils, synthetic or conventional, that are not compatible. A parafin base oil would not be compatible. I don't know of any parafin based automotive oils still on the market. I run the Mobil-1 V-Twin or 15W50 depending on what mood I'm in and where I happen to pick up the oil. I like to support my local Buell dealer and so will pay the $8/qt so that he continues to stock the Mobil-1 stuff. I run the oil 5K miles, sometimes more, less after a couple track days. How much oil is left in the system after draining? It can't be much. Buellistic = The Wise man of Buelldom | ||
| Peter |
It surprised me the first time I did it, how long it actually took before I got clean oil flowing from that return line. PPiA | ||
| Blake |
I've pulled the coil wire and spark plugs and let the starter flush the system, never got more than a half cup (~100mL). Yes I circulated the new oil in the same manner before actually firing the engine. | ||
| Lake_Bueller |
Is anyone running Castrol Syntec 20W50 oil? I found it for $8.00 per 4 qt. bottle. That's the same price I'm paying for 1 qt. of Mobil V-Twin. I can't imagine that it is really any different than the Mobil 1 (but I've been known to be wrong). | ||
| Ara |
Aaron and Bomber, When you to a 5-quart oil change and disconnect the oil return line to the reservoir, would you advise doing it before changing the oil filter, after putting the new one on, or after draining the old oil filter and re-installing it? Russ | ||
| Blake |
You people are insane... in a good kinda way... I guess.  | ||
| Bomber |
Ara . . .. only done it once, bvefore the oil change . . .. howver, I'd go with the opinions of more experienced head on this one Blake . . .absofreakinlutely! ain't insanity grand? | ||
| Rempss |
Ara, I change the filter first. No particular reason, just have always have; why run new oil into a filter you're going to throw out. The only "old" oil going through the new filter is from the tank through the pump and to the filter housing. I suspect not enough to dirty up the new filter. I think either way is a bit better than a standard drain & refill. Jeff | ||
| Ara |
Blake: Yes, yes, I know, it's totally around the bend obsession! But try this at home, OK? Next time you change the oil in the family car, pull the crankcase drain plug and let 'er drain till it won't drain any more. Then and only then pull the filter and see if you get more oil out of the crankcase drain. I bet you will! I get another 8 oz of dirty motor oil out of my Nissan 4x4 this way. Rempss: Hmmm. If you change the filter and scavange the system for dirty oil, you'll probably only be running a few ounces of dirty oil through the new filter before the clean oil comes through. Might have a little bit of mixed oil in the filter, though. If you leave the old filter on, you'll waste more clean oil when you scavange but you'll start out with an undefiled oil filter. Probably 6 vs. half-dozen. Russ | ||
| Rempss |
Yep. Jeff | ||
| Blake |
Careful fellas, the men in the white coats are lurking. | ||
| Ara |
GASP! No, don't tell me! There are, gulp, LURKERS here?????s | ||
| Bomber |
they can have my old oil filter when they pry it from my dead, cold fingers! | ||
| Reepicheep |
What do people use to cut open the old filters for inspection (for those of us without a lathe lying around). I can think of lots of ways to get it open, but none that would not create all sorts of metal junk inside the filter... which kind of ruins the whole point of cutting it open to inspect for metal shavings in the first place... Can a strategically placed can opener do it? | ||
| Rempss |
Bill, Even if you use a hacksaw; keeping it as close as possible the the mounting end as possible, you will be able to distinguish between the fragments and the trapped particles. The filter trapped "stuff" will be on the inside of the filter media after you remove it, cut it and stretch it out. I have used a large pipe cutter and a Dremel also, but a hacksaw is easier. Jeff | ||
| Andrewb |
rcheep, just use a hacksaw or big pipe cutter. The engine debris (you hope not to find) is inside the filter. So just do what you have to to get it out of the can for inspection. If you find anything metallic inside the filter run a magnet over the bits. If the bits stick to the magnet, you're looking at roller bearings and other hardened steel type bits. If the metallic stuff doesn't attract to the magnet, it's softer metal, aluminium, bronze non steel alloys. There is some voodoo involved in reading the innards of your filter, Just remember not to stay up too late staring in dis-belief at what you think you found.  | ||
| Bomber |
probobly alot like trying to diagnose a symptom on the web . . . . OH MY GOD, I HAVE HUNTINGTON'S CHOREA, SHINGLES, CHICKEN POX AND BLACK DEATH! oops . . .never mind . . .. lil poison ivy is all | ||
| Johnypebs |
My bike (2000 M2) had been left in the shed for three weeks while I was at work. I started her up and noticed that the oil tank was expanding with pressure, right where the hugger bangs off it.(Hugger banging oil tank is another story.) I lifted the filler "bung" which let go with a pop, when the tank returned to it's original shape but with the oil level now up to the brim.(ie: no expansion space.) I took some oil out of the tank and the problem seems to have gone, but what caused it in the first place? I suppose I must have over-filled it but why did the tank expand so much? I was riding the bike before the three week lay up and never noticed the problem then. I've only done 1500 miles and already I've had suspension problems (a long story for another day), had to lower the (UK) gearing, buy a new speedo sensor, a voltage anti-surge device to protect the new sensor, a speedo calibrator (after changing the gearing), I'm now getting carb icing. I can't wait for the engine to fall out! It seems like a factory charecter test, if you can't persevere to sort your bike out then you're not worthy to have it. I'm bonded with my bike now like a cabbage patch doll so there's no hope for me. | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: Johnnypebs Sounds like 3 quarts of oil in a 2 1/2 quart oil system. Anyway sportster engines are known(as all Harley-Davidsons) for oil seaking its lowest level in the lower end(oil sump)when not ran for long periods of time............................ If you had a timing plug breather(ie: PVC valve and oil/air seperator) the excess oil would pump out into the catch bottle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember the "DEVIL IS IN DETAILS"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In buelling LaFayette | ||
| Lornce |
Geeze, and I thought BMW types could get carried away. Some of you guys are NUTS! Been running Quaker State filters on my S3T, P# QS2870A, same as used on gas engined VW's (it was handy in the garage). It's about twice the size of an HD unit and probably has enough filter element area to be left safely in place for 50k miles if the oil's changed every 5k or so. The green can inspires comments everywhere. Guys at work keep buggin me to get a chrome slip-on from an HD dealer.... Bwaah ha ha ha! Lornce |
